[1.6.4]Crash Landing [Hardcore, HQM] version 1.1.x BETA STABLE

[PODonnell]

I believe the game just works better with Aroma. Nintendo Hard where the penalty for mistakes is losing all the progress is fake difficulty, and dead* for a good reason. Hardocore mode here is a necessity for this map because Minecraft does not have saves in the traditional sense and the only penalty for dying it has other than "game over" is that your items are where you died, putting a cap on how much effort can be expected from the player to prevent death.

AromaBackup should be part of the default experience. Players should be informed and instructed to reload after they died (with backup interval extended to a couple hours) as long as they've survived the first 5 days or so.



* except in Rougelikes, but it's there in Rougelikes because they are a variety of randomly generated experiences, not beating a static set of challenges on an unchanging map.

Why is "nintendo" hard fake? I for one have fond memories of working my way through Mario Brothers. Maybe I just come from a different generation or something, but I expect my games to draw some blood for mistakes..... you're welcome to play as you want, but I think Iskandar has clearly stated he intends this map to have something of a "hardcore" feel. An infinite number of retries to achieve something without cost completely undermines that.

infinite replays without penalty encourage things like suiscouting and childish ill considered gameplay. if you wish to rip the guts from your experience.... do so, but I'll continue to advise differently. Aroma is a good option for dealing with bugs like the cell suffocation issue, but it really shouldn't be used for OMG that pigman caught me by surprise........

This game also has allot more in common with roguelikes than it does a traditional pre-generated map like Mario bros.

 

[DragonDai]

Why is "nintendo" hard fake? I for one have fond memories of working my way through Mario Brothers. Maybe I just come from a different generation or something, but I expect my games to draw some blood for mistakes..... you're welcome to play as you want, but I think Iskandar has clearly stated he intends this map to have something of a "hardcore" feel. An infinite number of retries to achieve something without cost completely undermines that.

infinite replays without penalty encourage things like suiscouting and childish ill considered gameplay. if you wish to rip the guts from your experience.... do so, but I'll continue to advise differently. Aroma is a good option for dealing with bugs like the cell suffocation issue, but it really shouldn't be used for OMG that pigman caught me by surprise........

This game also has allot more in common with roguelikes than it does a traditional pre-generated map like Mario bros.

Couldn't agree more. This modpack, IMO, is basically a roguelite title. Yeah, it isn't turn based nor is it 100% procedurally generated, but it's random enough and challenging enough and "survivally" enough to get the rogueLITE designation, IMO. And a HUGE part of that is that, no matter how far along you are, death is death is death and start over because that's how it works.

Now, just like you can cheat your way to victory or savescum in a roguelike, there are plenty of things you can do in this game if that's not the way you personally want to play. But I feel that the intent of the pack is to play a certain way and installing something like Aroma wouldn't be in keeping with the way the pack was meant to be played.

Again, do as you like. Play the game the way that makes you happy. Just don't try to change the core aspects of the game cause you think it's too hard. If you, personally, think it's too hard, by whatever metric you measure that, there are plenty of options available to you to custom tailor the game to your preference.

 

[schpeelah]

Why is "nintendo" hard fake? I for one have fond memories of working my way through Mario Brothers. Maybe I just come from a different generation or something, but I expect my games to draw some blood for mistakes..... you're welcome to play as you want, but I think Iskandar has clearly stated he intends this map to have something of a "hardcore" feel. An infinite number of retries to achieve something without cost completely undermines that.

infinite replays without penalty encourage things like suiscouting and childish ill considered gameplay. if you wish to rip the guts from your experience.... do so, but I'll continue to advise differently. Aroma is a good option for dealing with bugs like the cell suffocation issue, but it really shouldn't be used for OMG that pigman caught me by surprise........

This game also has allot more in common with roguelikes than it does a traditional pre-generated map like Mario bros.

The penalty is losing progress. Like in every other game. If you've already weathered the early game and have a strategy to get you to where you're no longer in danger of dying of dehydration and starvation, there is nothing to be gained from starting over from scratch. You should be losing the last session of building or the trip to the city that you died on. Because at that point there's only death to being surprised by a mob and the only thing to alter is try not to be surprised in that encounter again.

Agrarian Skies has more like rouglikes in the way that counts than Crash Landing. Namely, the random bags can give you resources that will alter your playthrough based on what you get and when. There is nothing like that here. What, a tough spider might not jump you this time and you'll find your first reactor building in the 3rd city instead of the 5th?

 

[Sebas759]

How do i fix the metallurgy ID conflicts

 

[PODonnell]

The penalty is losing progress. Like in every other game. If you've already weathered the early game and have a strategy to get you to where you're no longer in danger of dying of dehydration and starvation, there is nothing to be gained from starting over from scratch. You should be losing the last session of building or the trip to the city that you died on. Because at that point there's only death to being surprised by a mob and the only thing to alter is try not to be surprised in that encounter again.

Agrarian Skies has more like rouglikes in the way that counts than Crash Landing. Namely, the random bags can give you resources that will alter your playthrough based on what you get and when. There is nothing like that here. What, a tough spider might not jump you this time and you'll find your first reactor building in the 3rd city instead of the 5th?

The thing to be changed is your strategy and equipment..... Many of us have dealt with the pigmen from the sky issue without aroma backup..... we learn to Keep sync cells, wear proper armor, and avoid the fights where possible. mini-tnt for instance can be used to pretty much remove the need to ever fight a pigman to destroy his spawner.

I've never played a roguelike where I built the map myself, and outside of say the nether have complete control of where enemies spawn..... random rewards do not make a roguelike.

Anyways, I feel like this will go on and on in a constant circular argument. This'll be my last response on this specific topic.

 

[joshuad156]

you can also turn cobble straight into seared stone with the high oven smelter im not sure how much you get though.

I setup SFM to craft my cobble into higher order compressed cobble (right now I have a barrel of 6x compressed cobble!), and fed that into my high oven when I wanted more seared bricks. Super effective!

 

[firefox1234]

How do i fix the metallurgy ID conflicts

Well, considering that Metallurgy isn't supported by Crash Landing, probably by removing it >.>
It does warn in the launcher that installing outside mods can interfere with the already installed mods

 

[schpeelah]

How do i fix the metallurgy ID conflicts

The IDs are in the config files.

The thing to be changed is your strategy and equipment..... Many of us have dealt with the pigmen from the sky issue without aroma backup..... we learn to Keep sync cells, wear proper armor, and avoid the fights where possible. mini-tnt for instance can be used to pretty much remove the need to ever fight a pigman to destroy his spawner.

I've never played a roguelike where I built the map myself, and outside of say the nether have complete control of where enemies spawn..... random rewards do not make a roguelike.

Anyways, I feel like this will go on and on in a constant circular argument. This'll be my last response on this specific topic.

I pretty much only ever died because I stopped paying attention and made a random mistake. Maybe you needed to restart and do the same things for 10 hours to learn to wear armor for some reason, but normal people can adjust combat strategy without sinking a lot of time into things they already did. At this point, you just sound like you just want to feel better than others cause you so hardcore.

Randomness in the playthrough makes a rouglike. The point of permadeath in rouglikes is that random elements are likely to make another playthrough very different. Crash Landing rougelike would be things if one playthrough was defined by getting cobblegen early (vs. not getting it at all for most of the game) while the second one was altered dramatically from others by getting badass weapons and armor so you'd do things differently on the third night.

In Crash Landing, you are just iterating solutions to a set challenge. You iterate on the first night strategy by repeating the first 24 hours, and you iterate on city trips by repeating the city looting trips.

I setup SFM to craft my cobble into higher order compressed cobble (right now I have a barrel of 6x compressed cobble!), and fed that into my high oven when I wanted more seared bricks. Super effective!

Haven't actually tried, but Mentat's videos indicate it's not very effective, with each compression level giving you a lot less than 9x the lower level.

 

[Quy2003]

Can Iskandar add the ability to create dust covers, etc. to the pack. If not, is there a config to do so? It's driving me insane.

 

[EpicWhiteWolf]

Haven't actually tried, but Mentat's videos indicate it's not very effective, with each compression level giving you a lot less than 9x the lower level.

Well im guessing its quicker since you get more at once for a higher compression level and its not like cobble is hard to come by so basically you loose some quantity for speed.

 

[DragonDai]

Randomness in the playthrough makes a rouglike.

This is just not correct. Roguelikes are defined as being like Rogue. The defining features of Rogue are Permadeath (first and foremost), turnbased combat (aka, the ability to think forever before making a single move), and procedural generation (NOT randomness, they are very different things). Getting random loot out of a bag is far less "roguelike" than having procedurally generated cities that spawn procedurally, have procedurally randomized chests with procedurally randomized content and procedurally randomized monsters. Crash Landing does these, AS does not.

In Crash Landing, you are just iterating solutions to a set challenge.

This is EXACTLY the same thing in every roguelike. You have a set challenge and you iterate solutions on it. This time you go sword and board, next time you go destructive magic, next time you go archery. It's EXACTLY what a roguelike is.


EDIT: To define words in this conversation...

Random: Without any pattern. Things will be wildly different every game. There are few (none I know of) games that are truly random. The closest I can think of in modern context is Diablo 3's Rifts. They are still procedurally generated, but the rules are EXTREMELY loose.

Procedurally Generated: Random within a specific set of guidelines and rules. Things will generally be the same, game to game, but will have enough variations to make things interesting. This is more like D3's "story mode." You'll always fight zombies in the first act, and you'll always end up at the Butcher's Lair. But how you get there will be different.

 

[schpeelah]

This is just not correct. Roguelikes are defined as being like Rogue. The defining features of Rogue are Permadeath (first and foremost), turnbased combat (aka, the ability to think forever before making a single move), and procedural generation (NOT randomness, they are very different things). Getting random loot out of a bag is far less "roguelike" than having procedurally generated cities that spawn procedurally, have procedurally randomized chests with procedurally randomized content and procedurally randomized monsters. Crash Landing does these, AS does not.

I'm talking about the elements of rougelikes that justify permadeath, not the genre as such.

It's EXACTLY what a roguelike is.

It's exactly what a game is.

You have a set challenge and you iterate solutions on it. This time you go sword and board, next time you go destructive magic, next time you go archery.

Except... You don't do that in Crash Landing? There are no alternative paths through the game. Just a different order of doing things, and short term strategies of whet you'll do right now. You don't commit yourself to anything in a way that restart would be helpful in changing strategies outside of early game when it's all about efficient use of time. If you think of something new, you can just start doing that.

 

[Quy2003]

Also, does anyone have specific screenshots for Steve's Factory Manager water automation? I have seen a couple of pictures but can't get exactly how to set it up.

 

[Nedrith]

Well im guessing its quicker since you get more at once for a higher compression level and its not like cobble is hard to come by so basically you loose some quantity for speed.

It's quicker to do compressed cobble, I believe you gain maybe 8mb's for double compressed cobble, however after that you actually lose cobble not just mb per a piece of normal cobblestone but you get less MB from one triple compressed cobble than you get from one single doubled compressed cobble.

As for backups you can always backup manually by copying and pasting the save folder. I did this for my first playthrough as I'm forgetful and busy and it's not uncommon for me to to leave the game on to quickly do something and forget to pause the game and come back starved to death, ambushed by a spider, or heat stroked to death. One of the biggest reasons I chose the easy route. With some creative file copying you can even save a world after your last death as long as you don't hit that delete world button

 

[Hoff]

It's quicker to do compressed cobble, I believe you gain maybe 8mb's for double compressed cobble, however after that you actually lose cobble not just mb per a piece of normal cobblestone but you get less MB from one triple compressed cobble than you get from one single doubled compressed cobble.

The seared cobble method >>> melting cobble in a high oven. Both in terms of speed and cobble used.

 

[Antaioz]

The seared cobble method >>> melting cobble in a high oven. Both in terms of speed and cobble used.

I use the high oven purely because it's simpler, and easy to setup. set & forget systems are great even if you use the slowest one.

 

[Hoff]

I use the high oven purely because it's simpler, and easy to setup. set & forget systems are great even if you use the slowest one.

The marginal difference in difficulty is so small it's hardly worth mentioning

Both methods are easily made to be set and forget.

 

[Antaioz]

The marginal difference in difficulty is so small it's hardly worth mentioning

Eh, It's more the concept is simpler, easier to understand, no loops. just cobble in -> seared out.

Both methods are easily made to be set and forget.

That's what I meant, since they're both set & forget, there's really no benefit to using the faster one over the long term.

I did start with the seared cobblestone to get enough high oven brick, but switched to high oven after that, the smeltery loop wasn't neat enough for me - not that I tried hard to make it neat . The high oven setup just requires so little effort too, and I was feeling lazy... very lazy...

 

[Hoff]

I guess. I just like being able to have a barrel of servos on hand at all times

 

[FunshineX]

Also, does anyone have specific screenshots for Steve's Factory Manager water automation? I have seen a couple of pictures but can't get exactly how to set it up.

check my youtube series I have a whole video dedicated