Aye, but whether that technicality actually matters is up to the individual. For me, it doesn't matter all that much, because the spirit in which its done is the same.
Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread
- Thread starter VapourDrive
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It is, this is known as a "scalper's bypass". Basically when it's illegal to scalp tickets, the scalper declares they're selling something that's stupidly cheap for a ridiculously high price and claim the tickets are a free bonus.
It's the same thing here. It's against the TOS to sell modpacks but he's proclaiming that he's only asking for subscribers and throwing in the modpack for "free".
I thought this was fairly bit to share... but not new in modding exactly...
I assume most of you know who BaconDonut is. If you don't hes a fairly large twitch streamer.
So he came out with SkyFactory2 beta recently and he's giving it out to his subs only. It costs 4.99 to sub to him on twitch and to get into the beta of the pack which according to him is being released on January 1.
He tweeted this
So i pointed out the obvious...
(I saw it from siyliss retweet.)
Apparently making someone sub to you to get the pack early isn't a paywall.
I am EXTREMELY unimpressed with this trend in the twitch community. I hope i'm not the only one...
To be fair it is Bacon Donut. He gets so many subs as a default. I don't think this would increase it by any noticeable amount. I think he did that more to make a kinda manageable testing pool rather than as a cash grab.
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I watched his explanation at http://www.twitch.tv/bacon_donut/v/3624159 and I am satisfied with it (which means quite a bit coming from me. 
). Subscribers for guaranteed early access as opposed to a raffle of sorts, while close to the line, is acceptable as far as I am concerned. I also understand his motives.
I would also like to say my earlier statement about streamers and monetization was more a general statement, not about this specifically (I had another well-known streamer in mind when writing it).
). Subscribers for guaranteed early access as opposed to a raffle of sorts, while close to the line, is acceptable as far as I am concerned. I also understand his motives.I would also like to say my earlier statement about streamers and monetization was more a general statement, not about this specifically (I had another well-known streamer in mind when writing it).
I was the one who wrote that post, and I stand by what I had said. However, people seem to have the wrong end of the stick as far as the bans go. They where been abusive and he had every right to ban them. People need to grow the heck up and stop been so childish. Yes he was wrong for renaming packages, which I clearly stated and he fixed it. Yes he could have handled the situation better, but so could have everyone else.I swear that this guy likes digging himself into a grave of shit.
https://github.com/sinkillerj/ProjectE/issues/307
He doesn't seem to understand the concept of "Renaming every package = bad"
He then blames me because "I was immature" thats why I and the other persons account got blocked. (Everything was included in the first post I had screenshots of everything.)
On top of deleting the last 3 issues (posted by the other user) none of them were immature at all and on top of that were useful to his acquisition of the mod. (I had re-tested almost all the bugs on the list and put all the active/unimplemented ideas in the other part. The other two issues were of things i found testing the old bugs.) I don't know how that could get any more constructive than that...
If you are reading this whatever the hell your name is don't bother unblocking me as i see no reason to continue helping you as you clearly don't understand what you are doing.
This will be last post about this. Ill just go back to worrying about my own stuff where the only people that can call me an idiot is my self and Dries
If you have any questions about what happened its all logged in the first post link. I have nothing to hide.
I kinda expected something of this sort to happen when you see "Minecraft modder for hire" on their twitter.
Have a great day. I have secrets that aren't so secret to share in the coming days.... DoubleDoorDev 4 Lyfe Where users and developers are treated like people. (PM/Tweet me if you're interested in working with us! We could use another developer on the team :3)
We have these thing called jobs, the thing that pays the bills and keeps us off the streets. That ALWAYS comes first.Let's see, you guys have a great track record for completing things really quickly, right?
We've added a lot of new content that is going to be fun and challenging to use. Our EMC system is more dynamic too.
We plan on having config options, yes. It may not be in the first couple of alpha/beta builds to disable items/blocks, but it will be implemented before a stable release.
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Sorry to pick your comment out of the heap to tie my reply in, Ray. Nothing personal intended
So. It depends on the individual case. It depends on motivation. It depends in this particular case on the fact he's not selling anything but offering early access to an unreleased mod. Most important I think he meant it as a bonus for current subscribers and didn't entirely realize people would pay for early access to a free product.
As such, here's the deal. Many people on Twitch are running a business, businesses offer people incentives and early access is a lot different from selling a mod against TOS; this isn't a case of circumventing the rules, I think, except in extreme cases. Say what you will about people who make a living streaming game content, they're obviously filling a desire that people are willing to pay for and they've got a right to incentivize, thank, or otherwise give back to their customers.
Second, this one's to @Reika and other mod devs, regarding his commentary about devs having trouble earning anything but ire from fans; to be clear, I'm not for one second saying you're the least bit wrong, but I'd suggest seeing this as an opportunity instead of an issue. They've found a way to get people to donate money without complaining. Use it. Even if you rarely streamed anything I'm sure you could get plenty of subscribers of your own on Twitch. Even outsource the actual stream to someone who enjoys doing it. Game companies have PR managers for a reason, I'm dead certain you could find someone who'd accept a cut to be the official streamer of your mods, or most other "big" devs.
I mean, it's just a thought but were I in your position rather than complaining about the things that don't work I'd be taking advantage of the things that do
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Aye, upon reading the things again, it seems my brain (stupid bloody thing) skipped over that important bit. In that case...I dunno. It strikes me as a bit weird, but I'll withhold calling it one way or the other mostly because I don't know the personality in question well enough to make said call.
What bothers me about it is that guys like Bacon already make a living off of playing mods, so to do something which uses those mods as an incentive to make even more money just comes across as wrong.
As for his explanation, sure it was nice of him to donate, but I have qualms with that. First, why did it take him being criticized before he offered to make donations to the modders of his new pack? He makes money hand over fist every night on his stream, so it's not like he's hard up. To my knowledge, many FTB staff donate and use Patreon for modders, and I'm sure they make significantly less money from FTB/Curse/etc in comparison to Bacon. Second, he said that none of the modders from the pack have said anything to him about it, yet where's the mod list? I doubt many modders even watch his stream to have known about the issue, and certainly aren't going to dig through old streams or something to find out. The best I found was a crash log from someone. Third, what about modders who specifically say you're not allowed to make money from the pack? I've noticed several mods with terms like that these days. 3D Furnace was in the crash log, for example, and it uses that terminology, yet he doesn't have a donation link.
This kind of stuff just always rubs me the wrong way.
I don't see why it's such a big deal to some of you guys. I mean seriously... It's not like the guy is charging, it's for beta, early access. Guess you just have to wait for it to hit release? Oh my, the tragedy is real.
Flippin 1st world problems.
Flippin 1st world problems.
I don't see why it's such a big deal to some of you guys. I mean seriously... It's not like the guy is charging, it's for beta, early access. Guess you just have to wait for it to hit release? Oh my, the tragedy is real.
Flippin 1st world problems.
Almost everything we deal with are first-world problems. That doesn't mean they're not problems.
When someone goes to the effort to make something, and asks very little in return for you to use it, but someone chooses to ignore that anyway, then people should have a problem with that. Encouraging that behavior is discouraging the people who make the things to begin with.
If the guy says that none of the mods licenses say he can't do what he's doing, where is the problem? If you guys are hating on him just for hating's sake (like pewdiepie), then by all means, go ahead. Let's not fabricate things though.
If he's not stepping on any toes, and his licenses for his mods allow what he's doing, there's no need to drag this shit through the forums. So much drama these days, ffs...
Pewdiepie has nothing to do with it. And I just named a specific mod which has such a license. He obviously did step on toes, or there wouldn't be an issue.
There would be significantly less drama in this community if people simply followed the terms asked of them, rather than choosing to ignore them for their own benefit.
Pewdiepie is a lightning rod for hate, that's why I brought him up. Hating for hating's sake. I think this BaconDonut guy wouldn't get half the flak he's taking if he was a small time streamer. But no, he's apparently big (I've still no idea who the guy is tbh). There's a point that could be made about "Making money on a pack" versus Paying to be a tester (and even then, Are people really *paying* just to test the pack? I doubt it, if he's that big of a streamer. Getting early access to the pack is just a perk), but I'm done in this BS conversation after this, lol...
People have differing opinions on the matter obviously. Once the pack is released, it will be downloadable to all. No charge. It's hard to foresee all situations when writing your license, and if it bothers you, change your license to suit this circumstance.
There was a big fit thrown when CovertJaguar put up his beta for donors only, anyone remember that? It's not release! for all intents and purposes, it's not out yet. Just a huge kneejerk reaction to "paywalls" and a lot of drama.
People have differing opinions on the matter obviously. Once the pack is released, it will be downloadable to all. No charge. It's hard to foresee all situations when writing your license, and if it bothers you, change your license to suit this circumstance.
There was a big fit thrown when CovertJaguar put up his beta for donors only, anyone remember that? It's not release! for all intents and purposes, it's not out yet. Just a huge kneejerk reaction to "paywalls" and a lot of drama.
But see, it doesn't matter whether the pack will be released eventually or not. Using a pack as an incentive to give money is the issue at hand. And he did indeed get a spike in subscriptions after the offer, so there's no question that he would have made money from the pack. That in and of itself is questionable behavior, but more so when there are things in the pack which seem to explicitly disallow it. Whether a mod author foresaw this situation, again, doesn't really matter. Maybe the authors who have licenses like that wouldn't actually want him to make money in that way. So they have no need to change their licenses. To be honest, I wouldn't have wanted him to make money off of any of my mods like this, either.
The thing with CJ was different. Railcraft belongs to him, and he puts a lot of effort into it. As long as it's within the boundaries of acceptable methods, him making some money off of his work shouldn't be a problem, especially when it's going to be released to everyone eventually. Whether you're allowed to use a mod as an incentive for donations though is not exactly clear, so that's mostly the only area where I'd be understanding of criticism against it.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here or anything, it's just that I don't think it's much to ask that people don't take advantage of someone's work, especially if they don't want you to. Hell, FTB as a modpack group was practically founded on that idea.
Their license should reflect that, then. This is full of grey area, and that is where people tend to stray when they're making money off of (whatever they do).
Right now I just see a guy charging donation for subscription to his channel, and then "Ohai, btw I'm building a modpack, you can test it for me if you're a member" Yeah, I get what you're saying about mod devs and their incentive, but where is the incentive for pack builders to do what they do? There's more to it than just slamming a bunch of mods into the folder and hitting play. I personally don't see anything wrong with releasing beta versions of modpacks to donors.
Again just my opinion, but it's all grey areas.
To be fair, the one mod I mentioned does say "ANY attempts to make money" which I think is pretty clear.
I certainly don't have anything against pack makers getting donations or anything for their work. I just think there's a right way to do everything, and this is one situation where I don't think it was done the right way. And consider this: Bacon gets someone else to make and support his packs, apparently. Do those people see any of that money?
It's fine, I don't want to give you a hard time for an opinion. I just felt like the the other side of the coin was being disregarded initially, but you've acknowledged seeing that point of view since then. All is well in Whoville.