ELORAAM

[Ieldra]

and none of those things are as clean as P:R, especially the FMP support which blows away competition - I hate using a whole block just for a redwire equivelant.

the redwire, coloured and bundled cables + logic are the only reason i have P:R, they're just too useful not to have.

[/quote]
Which is why I put my EnderIO redstone conduits in the same block space as my other EnderIO conduits, and cover it all up with EnderIO facades. EnderIO redstone conduits also have color channels that work almost identical to the bundled cables. As for the logic gates, Engineer's Toolbox is more flexible. It has most of the usual circuits and you can program the side where the output(s) go(es), and you can cover it all up with Buildcraft facades. And if that isn't enough, there's always the programmable RedNet controller.

I'm beginning to think that using familiar mods too much might make you reluctant to look over the fence.

 

[Jadedcat]

When IC2 devs threaten to sue the Simply Jetpacks guy, no one says anything here. Eloraam makes a vague legal comment and the forum goes fullReddit about it.

IJS.

Oh it was discussed. FTB did not ignore it, just ask @tonius11

FTB has no real alternative. BluePower is unfinished and immibis (and thus RedLogic) is blacklisted after writing an "illegal" RP2->BuildCraft energy conversion mod in Minecraft 1.1 days. Also, version upgrades would get screwed over AGAIN.

Where in the world do people keep getting the idea immibis is blacklisted? If he was blacklisted.. he would also be banned from the forums. If every mod we don't use is blacklisted.... someone is hiding a huge list from me. I and @Eyamaz can use any mod we want in packs. We pick the ones we feel fit the pack best. Which yes is frequently going to be the more communicative mod devs. If I have a choice between using 2 mods that do practically the same thing, and one mod dev talks to me regularly on irc, and the other tends to ignore me or poke fun at the "silly girl" (not something imibis does to be clear) I will use the mod with the communicative dev, because I know where to find him when things go wrong. And I know he'll talk to me.

Frequently in the past Slow has wanted the core of all the packs to be the same, which has limited us on branching out since its a bit silly to add 5 or 6 mods that have identical functions. In 1.7 that supposedly is changing and we have more freedom to veer off the "traditional core mods", which means more room for stable alternatives.

 

[Succubism]

-Snip.-

I love you have my babies.

 

[Jadedcat]

Tell you what guys, for the sake of confusion, keep news about the mod on the What's New Pussycat thread and Eloraam whatever news here, since the name of the topic is Eloraam.

Fair?

This would be the correct thread for both discussions. The moderators would rather not see the What's new in minecraft thread over run with RP3/Ello drama. Keep it here.

 

[Antaioz]

Which is why I put my EnderIO redstone conduits in the same block space as my other EnderIO conduits, and cover it all up with EnderIO facades. EnderIO redstone conduits also have color channels that work almost identical to the bundled cables. As for the logic gates, Engineer's Toolbox is more flexible. It has most of the usual circuits and you can program the side where the output(s) go(es), and you can cover it all up with Buildcraft facades. And if that isn't enough, there's always the programmable RedNet controller.

I'm beginning to think that using familiar mods too much might make you reluctant to look over the fence.

(I do circle back on-topic here)

I'll admit I haven't yet tried engineers toolbox or even enderIO (though I've been meaning to), mostly because a lot of the functionality they offer, I already have in other mods that I play, and partly because a few of the 'new' mods I have wanted to try haven't updated yet, putting off any updates until everything is ready.

But I was also thrown off engineers toolbox because the instant I looked at it, it just looked horrible (to me). everything is a block, block block block, there's no wire aesthetic, no cable - just blocks, ugh.... And, not to be offensive, but the textures seem a little... strong.

There's an elegance and beauty in the wires in RP, and now P:R. They look neat, and a well setup system is a wonder to behold. Furthermore, you can walk through the cables - which is SO nice in a confined space, something a lot of other wire systems are missing.

The other reason P:R cables are so nice to have is because of their simplicity, they're incredibly easy to use for small systems all the way up to complicated multi-bundle builds, they're easy to understand and setup for any tier.

I don't know if the same is true for ender IO, or engineers toolbox, or any of the other mods that can replace the bare functionality of P:R cables, but I haven't seen any yet that offer the same benefits, being able to walk through them, the slim-cable aesthetic (or something better?), FMP, simplicity and usefulness from naught to eleven, and neatness - to me at least, these things outweigh the over-compactability and customisability of other solutions.

And that's why I haven't switched, and don't want to. Because I don't need to, P:R cables are just plain awesome, and I'd be extremely sad if they went away. Sure, I'd get by, but my builds would never look or feel the same. Especially since I have no intention of ever using RP3 unless Elo adds something truly wonderous (which is a possibility), but even then, I'd probably still have P:R for the logic/wires, and FMP for microblocks, just because I can.

I like the way my redstone looks and feels with P:R, I don't mind if it takes up a little more room than alternative mods, or I have to use three gates just to route a wire around. I just want to keep my wires.

Edit: To clarify, this is me, you're obviously free to use whatever you want, but I'm tyring to point out that just because alternatives are out there, that doesn't mean P:R wouldn't be missed if it were dropped, and I'm sure more than a few people agree with me that it should continue, should the mod dev be willing, ofcourse - which they currently are.

 

[Jadedcat]

(I do circle back on-topic here)

I'll admit I haven't yet tried engineers toolbox or even enderIO (though I've been meaning to), mostly because a lot of the functionality they offer, I already have in other mods that I play, and partly because a few of the 'new' mods I have wanted to try haven't updated yet, putting off any updates until everything is ready.

But I was also thrown off engineers toolbox because the instant I looked at it, it just looked horrible (to me). everything is a block, block block block, there's no wire aesthetic, no cable - just blocks, ugh.... And, not to be offensive, but the textures seem a little... strong.

There's an elegance and beauty in the wires in RP, and now P:R. They look neat, and a well setup system is a wonder to behold. Furthermore, you can walk through the cables - which is SO nice in a confined space, something a lot of other wire systems are missing.

The other reason P:R cables are so nice to have is because of their simplicity, they're incredibly easy to use for small systems all the way up to complicated multi-bundle builds, they're easy to understand and setup for any tier.

I don't know if the same is true for ender IO, or engineers toolbox, or any of the other mods that can replace the bare functionality of P:R cables, but I haven't seen any yet that offer the same benefits, being able to walk through them, the slim-cable aesthetic (or something better?), FMP, simplicity and usefulness from naught to eleven, and neatness - to me at least, these things outweigh the over-compactability and customisability of other solutions.

And that's why I haven't switched, and don't want to. Because I don't need to, P:R cables are just plain awesome, and I'd be extremely sad if they went away. Sure, I'd get by, but my builds would never look or feel the same. Especially since I have no intention of ever using RP3 unless Elo adds something truly wonderous (which is a possibility), but even then, I'd probably still have P:R for the logic/wires, and FMP for microblocks, just because I can.

I like the way my redstone looks and feels with P:R, I don't mind if it takes up a little more room than alternative mods, or I have to use three gates just to route a wire around. I just want to keep my wires.

I have had this argument with chicken bones a lot. I am all for pretty and elegant.. if it can be done with minimal impact on the computer use for doing it. If however making said item "pretty" = it takes ten times the computer resources... give me a config or give me a different mod. Pretty cable that uses ten times the computer resources of a block is the equivalent of a gold plated light switch. I sit there going "give me the crappy ugly plastic one that costs ten cents and I'll build a pretty room around it. My computer should not be forced to lag for the digital equivalent of a light switch.

Optimized is better than pretty. But pretty and optimized is best.

 

[tonius11]

Oh it was discussed. FTB did not ignore it, just ask @tonius11

I prefer to just ignore what happened back then, but I can say FTB (and a bunch of modders) did anything but ignore that situation. It just wasn't all handled publicly here. Why would it have to be? That would just create more drama bait than there already was.

 

[asiekierka]

Where in the world do people keep getting the idea immibis is blacklisted? If he was blacklisted.. he would also be banned from the forums. If every mod we don't use is blacklisted.... someone is hiding a huge list from me. I and @Eyamaz can use any mod we want in packs.

Generally, that's a conspiracy theory going around in quite a lot of circles, that immibis's mods started to be ignored directly after his storm with Eloraam - fueled further by the fact FTB waited for P:Red and not used RedLogic when it was out, despite P:Red being an illegal (yes, illegal, they forgot to include immibis's LICENSE file) fork of RedLogic all the way until 4.0.0.1 when CB stepped down and rewrote 99% of the code.

(For those of you who don't know, Project: Red used to be a fork of immibis' Microblocks and RedLogic. The 3.x.x versions based on that were pulled down after the 4.0.0 release (and now ChickenBones and MrTJP claim they never existed nor was immibis's code ever used), but you can check the GitHub history as well as http://files.shinonome.ch/modsarchive/ProjectRed )

 

[Jadedcat]

Generally, that's a conspiracy theory going around in quite a lot of circles, that immibis's mods started to be ignored directly after his storm with Eloraam - fueled further by the fact FTB waited for P:Red and not used RedLogic when it was out, despite P:Red being an illegal (yes, illegal, they forgot to include immibis's LICENSE file) fork of RedLogic all the way until 4.0.0.1 when CB stepped down and rewrote 99% of the code.

Umm I didn't wait for Project Red. It was included by Slow in some packs and by DW20. People really need to get off this conspiracy train. And asie you need to stop encouraging it. It seems everywhere I see you you are stirring up conspiracy ideas.

 

[Succubism]

What came first? Flowerchild vs Eloraam or Forestry vs ... Er... Technic?
I dunno, there's so much drama in modding these days, I kind of miss the days when packs weren't as easy to make.
Remember when the mods folder didn't exist? Hoo-boy those were the days.

 

[Antaioz]

I have had this argument with chicken bones a lot. I am all for pretty and elegant.. if it can be done with minimal impact on the computer use for doing it. If however making said item "pretty" = it takes ten times the computer resources... give me a config or give me a different mod. Pretty cable that uses ten times the computer resources of a block is the equivalent of a gold plated light switch. I sit there going "give me the crappy ugly plastic one that costs ten cents and I'll build a pretty room around it. My computer should not be forced to lag for the digital equivalent of a light switch.

Optimized is better than pretty. But pretty and optimized is best.

I do agree with that, but I've usually had the impression that multi transport-everything-cable was usually more intensive than a simple redwire, and that was mostly based on a comment by King Lemming ages ago i think, on a player getting lag on magmatic engines connected to mekanism cables I believe - but It's been so long I'm sure things have changed.

I always thought that P:R cables were fairly optimised, although admittidly that was mostly an assumption. I think my mind went - ooo, simple = optimised
Not sure if they are or not tbh.

In short, I have no idea what's optimised atm, so I go for simpler


Edit:

Remember when the mods folder didn't exist? Hoo-boy those were the days.

such nostalgia

 

[asiekierka]

Umm I didn't wait for Project Red. It was included by Slow in some packs and by DW20. People really need to get off this conspiracy train. And asie you need to stop encouraging it. It seems everywhere I see you you are stirring up conspiracy ideas.

And everywhere I see you talking about me, you claim that I steal mods. I was approached by KingLemming yesterday about it and I remember very well that it all began after one of my, arguably negative (for which I apologize), conversations with you.

I just feel disappointed in the way this community works and conspiracy theories like that help explain a lot of the things in the community that strike many of us as odd and unexplained.

 

[Ieldra]

I like the way my redstone looks and feels with P:R, I don't mind if it takes up a little more room than alternative mods, or I have to use three gates just to route a wire around. I just want to keep my wires.

Edit: To clarify, this is me, you're obviously free to use whatever you want, but I'm tyring to point out that just because alternatives are out there, that doesn't mean P:R wouldn't be missed if it were dropped, and I'm sure more than a few people agree with me that it should continue, should the mod dev be willing, ofcourse - which they currently are.

This is what I've spoken of earlier: Losing PR would be an inconvenience and a sad day for those who prefer its style, but hardly "devastating" as the post I originally replied to claimed. As a matter of course it's always better to have a mod than not to have it, that goes for almost everything, since it gives you a certain playstyle you might like even if it doesn't have any unique functionality.

As for ET's aesthetics, the sockets take Buildcraft facades. They're made to be covered and integrated into your architecture, not to remain visible as they are. I agree that PR's cable aesthetics are unique. It's just that I tend to hide them behind covers anyway, so any mod that offers a facade functionality will do just as well. What we would be losing is a style of presenting intricate circuitry many have come to like, including me, btw... but not much, if any, functionality.

 

[King Lemming]

Just a random - possibly related - train of thought.

How to be a "good" modder:

1) Check your ego at the door. Nobody cares. It's a game.
2) See Step 1.
3) Don't be a horrible person.
4) Do not make a mod for the purposes of being "popular." Again, see Step 1.
5) Make a mod that *you* want to play.

Too many modders skip to Step 5.

 

[Jadedcat]

And everywhere I see you talking about me, you claim that I steal mods. I was approached by KingLemming yesterday about it and I remember very well that it all began after one of my, arguably negative (for which I apologize), conversations with you.

I just feel disappointed in the way this community works and conspiracy theories like that help explain a lot of the things in the community that strike many of us as odd and unexplained.

Um I don't talk about you at all... o.0 .. and we aren't even in the same channels... so how would you "see me talking about you"? I was asked about some old drama about you some time ago. I had an old irc log of a public conversation/rant you had, I said there's the background, make of it what you will. I didn't make any inferences, just gave an irc log of a long conversation you had in a channel. And that was months ago. Back before you quit minecraft. I don't think I even have that log anymore.

I actively avoid being in the same channel as you because I don't have time for the conspiracy theories. Like the one about me saying you steal things. Or the one about FTB blacklisting mods just because we don't include every mod on the minecraft forums. I have packs to make. I don't have time for the drama people stir up just because I can't use every mod ever created.

Try looking at the mods used. We use mods based on stability, inter mod compatibility and if all else ties how communicative the mod author is with us and the over-all community. That's the only guidelines. And when I say we I mean Eyamaz and I. I don't know what Slow's guidelines are or previous FTB pack creator's guidelines were.

Eyamaz and I have used plenty of small newer mods. And we have removed a lot of outdated mods since we started making packs. I spend a lot of time hanging out in dev channels and talking with mod devs on irc.

Honestly the only people who spend time on these theories tend to be the devs making mods that have the same functions as current popular mods and then are shocked everyone doesn't swap to their mod. Most devs realize we move mods around and we only have so many packs, some mods will have to be left out. And that doesn't make them bad mods. It just means there was no room for them this time.

 

[Succubism]

People assume too much and play too little.

who am i to talk, i do this as much as anyone.

 

[asiekierka]

Like the one about me saying you steal things.

Someone did. I was accused by multiple people, including skyboy, Metallurgy devs, KingLemming and a few other prominent devs of that, yet there were only two or three people who knew about my fork projects, which never came out either way, at the time. Therefore, someone did have to go around and talk about it. As you were the sole person I discussed my modpack plans with to an extent which the accusations touched, the most likely assumption was that it was you talking about the matter that caused other people to accuse me of that.

Or the one about FTB blacklisting mods just because we don't include every mod on the minecraft forums.

Nobody wants you to include every mod. It's just that many people still have questions about why some mods never seem to get included.

I don't have time for the drama people stir up just because I can't use every mod ever created.

I hate when people call off debate, discussion and trying to clear up misunderstandings as "drama".

 

[eliandarkbrood]

People assume too much and play too little.

You said it almost too well.

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

 

[asiekierka]

People assume too much and play too little.

Modding politics are this way for a reason, and that reason is people caring.

 

[Antaioz]

As for ET's aesthetics, the sockets take Buildcraft facades. They're made to be covered and integrated into your architecture, not to remain visible as they are. I agree that PR's cable aesthetics are unique. It's just that I tend to hide them behind covers anyway, so any mod that offers a facade functionality will do just as well. What we would be losing is a style of presenting intricate circuitry many have come to like, including me, btw... but not much, if any, functionality.

Actually that makes me think of something I forgot about with FMP. As far as I know, facades support more blocks, and at the moment I'm having trouble since my base is made from chisel... hrm

compatibilities are frustrating...

Edit: oh yeah, Elo's adding more unique microblocks isn't she... (insert word)