Would this Mod Pack interest you?

[Saice]

These posts are very, very large. My goodness. I have just scrolled through all this craziness, and it took forever.

Wall of TEXT crits Bigglesworth for 9999

Guys its called a debate. Good debating requires you address the points that are brought up. The only way to do this effectively on a forum is just how they are doing it now. Qouting the relvent part of the message and replay to each in kind.

If reading is to much for you feel free to skip over the posts or use the unwatch thread option.

 

[whizzball1]

I know it is a debate. I like it.

 

[Iskandar]

Which I think is fine. In fact in my current world I am running pretty much what Shneeky has proposed here, though mine has Ars Magica. ^.^ Anyway, I'm about to make my tinker table and I've used nothing but iron picks so far.

Why in heck have you waited so long? You can put down everything you need for your first tools from pretty much the first tree you punch down, maybe two.

MFR provides a great enchantment mechanic. Also, by the time you're able to do any reasonable modification of the tools via TC you've got enough mats to create a Tool.

Not exactly. You need Lapis for Fortune, and that is fairly easy to come by.


Eh, I won't really argue the point past that. I find the mod incredibly useful and fun, if others don't, that is perfectly fine.

To each their own. That is the wonderful thing about modded Minecraft, there is enough out there you can more or less tailor the game to your playing style. Have fun Schneeky.

 

[Greyed]

Not exactly. You need Lapis for Fortune, and that is fairly easy to come by.

450 Lapis to get the same as Fortune 3. Hence why I said "...any reasonable modification..." and not just "any modification". Heck, now that I think about it, the XP you would get from obtaining that much Lapis pretty much means you could enchant a Fortune pick the old way.

 

[Omicron]

I wouldn't want to miss Forestry. MFR is not a viable replacement. It offers different features, not the same ones.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A few things I would like to state here:

First off, I'm well aware that this isn't for all the peoples. Trying to create a mod pack that caters to everyone is an act of futility. However, what I am trying to determine if there are enough people which would play with this mod pack to make it worth the hassle to actually formally do up as an FTB Launcher Private Public Mod Pack.

As such, I appreciate the debate, as it gives me an idea of different opinions represented here, and gives me a few ideas about how to tweak it. I also appreciate ALL the feedback, positive and negative. It's all very useful to me as a new mod pack creator.

Case in point: Iron Chests. It doesn't take a whole lot, it has blanket permissions, so it shouldn't be too hard to include. I don't really see the point, since by the time I have iron chests, I'll likely have an ME Chest, which obviates the whole mod, but for those who would find it useful, I can see including it.

Redpower2... simply isn't going to happen. I can't get the permission to include it in the mod pack, so it simply won't be. The quality or utility of the mod is irrelevant, it is not appearing in this mod pack exclusively because I can't get permission. I can appreciate not wanting to play a mod pack as a result of not having it, however this really isn't an option for me, or for any Third Party Mod Pack of any kind to be honest.

The other litmus test I am having is 'low computer resource usage'. This is to cater primarily to either a) people on older computers, or b) private servers (possibly even LAN servers) which are running on older systems.

For this reason, Mytcraft, while awesome, is simply not an option. Neither is Twilight Forest, Aether, or any other mod which adds dimensions. This was also why I went with CraftGuide instead of NEI. Since there aren't really a whole lot of machines you want to 'look into' for crafting recipes, this isn't too bad. And heck, I might decide to try my hand at writing plugins for a couple of mods for CraftGuide so it CAN 'look into' those machines.

Fortunately, Railcraft comes with full CraftGuide integration! So there really isn't a whole lot you are missing on. The Thermal Expansion machines generally does What It Says On The Tin (Pulverizers generally take Ore and produce 2x Pulverised Ore + a small chance of something else). The only trick here would be the Induction Smelter making Hardened Glass.

I'm not including ComputerCraft because I don't like how easy it is to use. I'm not saying it is OP, mind you, since that's subject to each person's playstyle. However, I see it as a 'do anything you want and get away with it' mod, and not something I wish to subject new players to.

For Forestry... I dunno. I mostly used Forestry for the green energy setup, which I can do with MFR easily enough. With MFR included in the mod, most of the mechanics Forestry offers are things MFR can do much easier, so no one would really *want* to, for example, use multiblock farms. Besides, if I included Forestry, everyone would be clamoring for the Extra Bees mod, and I'm really not too sure about that mod, having actually played with it. Sure, it can be an enormous time-sink, but it can also really shortcut a lot of the time sink if you have a sufficient supply of MJ. Besides, there are some resources which should not come out of a bee, and it strains incredulity to suppose that they might.

So, thank you everyone who has contributed so far. I really appreciate the debate and the various viewpoints.

 

[RandomMoped]

I think it'd work better with forestry. Forestry and MFR actually run pretty good together.

 

[Saice]

I think it'd work better with forestry. Forestry and MFR actually run pretty good together.

I like forestry for all the stuff it has unrelated to farming. Bees, Trees, and back packs.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I like forestry for all the stuff it has unrelated to farming. Bees, Trees, and back packs.

Backpacks I will grant you, but tree breeding is only for biomass production via multiblock farm (trees with high sappiness) or for getting enough fruit juice to get the 1.5x multiplier on the same (fruit trees), or for making seed oil (chestnuts). All of these require the multiblock farm to produce in quantity. Seed oil is only really used in the production of apiaries and alviaries. Which brings us neatly to bees.

Bees produce honey and beeswax. The latter can be used to make Capsules and Waterproofing. Since I don't have Extra Biomes installed, finding a desert isn't too difficult, so the functionality of making waterproofing out of beeswax is very limited. Besides, you only need one or two for your very early game setup before you can put an Induction Smelter down and start producing Liquiducts. With the Liquid Transposer, disposable capsules out of renewable resources are also of limited value, particularly with liquid tesseracts around. Propolis is nice, but without IC2, you don't have the option to spin it into Sticky Resin anymore, making its primary use now for apiarist's pipes to automate your production. Pollen and Royal Jelly are primarily used for Alviaries, which is to say: increasing bee production.

MFR, on the other hand, has a single block which produces plenty of biofuel, and an engine that runs on it for probably too much MJ production (I'll almost certainly have to nerf that in the config files). It's simpler, easier, more productive, and doesn't require hours involved in tree breeding nor run on non-renewable resources like Apatite. Heck, that's kinda why I was hesitant about including it in the mod pack in the first place. It so completely out-performs Forestry that no one with half a brain would consider using the Forestry method.

Also, if I include Forestry, I'm going to end up with a eleventy bizillion people wanting me to put in Extra Bees, which go way too far in the other direction. Sure, UberBreeders got a *SLIGHT* nerf, however it really is a 'produce anything you want, in sufficient quantity' kind of mod. It produces things that just should not be produced by bees. And the machines make it too easy to set up your supply of choice produce in meaningful quantity (inject Fastest Producer into bee of choice, then insert into Alviary with a series of Proven/Impregnated Frames to max production bonus). Trying to do it without the SuperBreeder (since it is no longer completely uber) takes forever of manually moving things around (without Turtles to automate the process) and doing it with the SuperBreeder and the DNA setup is just plain too easy.

 

[YX33A]

I find the poll is lacking two important choices.
You have a "leaning towards using" choice and a "leaning towards not using" choice. I can tell you for certain that no, I won't use this pack. It's not because of a debate in this thread in which one of the people was unable to engage in a actual debate and attempted to use logical fallacies to shut his "foe" down and failed horribly and I respect them less now for both attempting to bypass a honest discussion and debate, and by doing so with logical fallacies.(not to mention having it fall flat on their face because they didn't have a fucking clue what they were talking about and invoked the fallacy despite the fact that you are never supposed to reveal that you are attempting to use one[and the fact that the one said person Invoked was not what they were attempting to use, resulting in less respect from me]) That more or less is just why I find that this thread is a bit bloated now with toxic fallout from a failed debate.

It's in part because of a attempt to shoehorn everyone into using one specific build by having no alternatives to work with. Nothing is more annoying to me then someone telling me how to do something, and doubly so if they attempt to tell me how to play MINECRAFT FOR FUCKS SAKE.(but you haven't done that actually, because you're offering a modpack which I can safely say "fuck that I won't use it" and you're not forcing into into my copy of minecraft)

But it is also largely because the pack is intended to be a "Steampunk" pack. I believe there is a time and place for steampunk. Time is the Victorian age and Place is Somewhere Pseudo-European. And if I want to bring that feeling into Minecraft, I have a texture pack for that. Without that texture pack, there is no Victorian likeness to anything, and thus no steampunk can fit in my desired world. And besides, I don't really want to use a Modpack someone other then me has worked on, because I know what I want in my game. It's just that simple.

But as I alluded to before, your poll is somewhat flawed. I would not vote unless I was certain of my choice, and the fact that I can not vote and say "I will never use this mod pack, nothing personal", then I must select a inferior choice which is more in line with my desires.

As I was saying, I simply will never use this modpack. At least, I simply will never use the modpack you are proposing. Just doesn't interest me.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I find the poll is lacking two important choices.
You have a "leaning towards using" choice and a "leaning towards not using" choice. I can tell you for certain that no, I won't use this pack. It's not because of a debate in this thread in which one of the people was unable to engage in a actual debate and attempted to use logical fallacies to shut his "foe" down and failed horribly and I respect them less now for both attempting to bypass a honest discussion and debate, and by doing so with logical fallacies.(not to mention having it fall flat on their face because they didn't have a fucking clue what they were talking about and invoked the fallacy despite the fact that you are never supposed to reveal that you are attempting to use one[and the fact that the one said person Invoked was not what they were attempting to use, resulting in less respect from me]) That more or less is just why I find that this thread is a bit bloated now with toxic fallout from a failed debate.

Well, that was certainly emphatic, at any rate. I appreciate your honesty.

It's in part because of a attempt to shoehorn everyone into using one specific build by having no alternatives to work with. Nothing is more annoying to me then someone telling me how to do something, and doubly so if they attempt to tell me how to play MINECRAFT FOR FUCKS SAKE.(but you haven't done that actually, because you're offering a modpack which I can safely say "fuck that I won't use it" and you're not forcing into into my copy of minecraft)

Who ever said I was trying to tell anyone how to play Minecraft? I'm simply trying to make a minimalistic mod pack which isn't so bloated with worthless or useless crap.

But it is also largely because the pack is intended to be a "Steampunk" pack. I believe there is a time and place for steampunk. Time is the Victorian age and Place is Somewhere Pseudo-European. And if I want to bring that feeling into Minecraft, I have a texture pack for that. Without that texture pack, there is no Victorian likeness to anything, and thus no steampunk can fit in my desired world. And besides, I don't really want to use a Modpack someone other then me has worked on, because I know what I want in my game. It's just that simple.

It also indicates a certain degree of technological aptitude. Indeed, the phrase 'steampunk' originally came from 'cyberpunk' to describe that you COULD have had some pretty crazy things done with steam-era technology, thus set in Victorian era psudo-europe because that is a typification of when and where that technology was actually present. The mods I have selected are also largely 'early industrial' type technology. Heck, Railcraft is the PERFECT example of this, you get to make a huge steam boiler, and use steam to power everything. The very definition of Steampunk.

Before you try to define the term to mean something other than it is, do your research.

But as I alluded to before, your poll is somewhat flawed. I would not vote unless I was certain of my choice, and the fact that I can not vote and say "I will never use this mod pack, nothing personal", then I must select a inferior choice which is more in line with my desires.

As I was saying, I simply will never use this modpack. At least, I simply will never use the modpack you are proposing. Just doesn't interest me.

And you are welcome to your opinion, and I thank you for sharing it.

 

[KirinDave]

And you are welcome to your opinion, and I thank you for sharing it.

FWIW, I think your pack would work well as an introductory pack. I just doubt it'd have longevity for a player.

For example, I could see using it to introduce my friends to a sort of "soft" version of modded minecraft that is very streamlined and isn't deigned for really big and intricate builds. So perhaps I would not use your pack. However, I could see recommending such a pack to someone if I thought that they were interested in modded minecraft but might be overwhelmed by the mental gymnastics most of us do when juggling packs that include things that don't quite work well together. Even DW20's pack can be a bit overwhelming.

For me personally, I'd find your pack lacking a lot of things I want to do and lacking diversity. But I like complex things and ambiguity. So I am part of a vocal minority. At the end of the day, there is 0 reason you shouldn't make this mod pack. I dunno why you even asked.

Just go make it! The time you've devoted to this thread is easily quadruple the time it'd take you to get a version put together and into testing.

I find the poll is lacking two important choices.
I won't use this pack. It's not because of a debate in this thread in which one of the people was unable to engage in a actual debate and attempted to use logical fallacies to shut his "foe" down and failed horribly and I respect them less now for both attempting to bypass a honest discussion and debate, and by doing so with logical fallacies.(not to mention having it fall flat on their face because they didn't have a fucking clue what they were talking about and invoked the fallacy despite the fact that you are never supposed to reveal that you are attempting to use one[and the fact that the one said person Invoked was not what they were attempting to use, resulting in less respect from me]) That more or less is just why I find that this thread is a bit bloated now with toxic fallout from a failed debate.

All I can say is that I did apologize and tried to cut off the discussion when I saw it was going nowhere. Please, take this full refund for the price you paid for this thread. And know that I'm really okay with you respecting me less. I probably don't deserve the respect I was awarded in the first place.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

FWIW, I think your pack would work well as an introductory pack. I just doubt it'd have longevity for a player.

For example, I could see using it to introduce my friends to a sort of "soft" version of modded minecraft that is very streamlined and isn't deigned for really big and intricate builds. So perhaps I would not use your pack. However, I could see recommending such a pack to someone if I thought that they were interested in modded minecraft but might be overwhelmed by the mental gymnastics most of us do when juggling packs that include things that don't quite work well together. Even DW20's pack can be a bit overwhelming.

For me personally, I'd find your pack lacking a lot of things I want to do and lacking diversity. But I like complex things and ambiguity. So I am part of a vocal minority. At the end of the day, there is 0 reason you shouldn't make this mod pack. I dunno why you even asked.

Just go make it! The time you've devoted to this thread is easily quadruple the time it'd take you to get a version put together and into testing.

Ahh, thank you, that does put an interesting view on things.

Currently, I am playtesting my mod pack for at least a modicum of balance (such as the MFE biofuel reactor) and cohesion. I know, it's a radical concept, but I'd like to release a mod pack which I have personally playtested and fiddled with to get the right balance.

I should be finished by early next week, and hope to submit it before next week's deadline of Wednesday for approval.

As far as 'why devote time to the thread'? Because it does give me some ideas. Namely, I will be including Iron Chests into the mod at someone's request. It will neatly fill the gap between vanilla double chests and Applied Energistics nicely.

 

[KirinDave]

Ahh, thank you, that does put an interesting view on things.

Currently, I am playtesting my mod pack for at least a modicum of balance (such as the MFE biofuel reactor) and cohesion. I know, it's a radical concept, but I'd like to release a mod pack which I have personally playtested and fiddled with to get the right balance.

It's not radical. Most of them do that. We're doing it with Resonant Rise right now. (P.S., man Biomes o Plenty has borked us badly. We probably have to world reset.)

 

[Greyed]

BTW, Schneeky, how about Immibis' Microblocks? Lots of cosmetic utility which is cross-mod compatible. EG, I have hollow coverplates surrounding both a BC pipe and a Liquiduct connected to my MFR harvester.

Of course, KL's latest update to TE kinda borked Immibis' rendering for Liquiducts and REConduits. Not sure if either of them can come up with a workaround. :/

 

[Omicron]

Backpacks I will grant you, but tree breeding is only for biomass production via multiblock farm (trees with high sappiness) or for getting enough fruit juice to get the 1.5x multiplier on the same (fruit trees), or for making seed oil (chestnuts). *snip*

Just wanting to explain the reason I want Forestry in a pack I play here real quick.

The reason I breed trees is because I like the way the trees look, and I like the way some of the wood types look. I want them for aesthetic purposes. Honestly, I don't choose mods by how much resources they can give me for how little effort (aside from the fact that I tend to avoid the broken ones because I don't want things to be too easy). I choose them by the way they allow me to build something neat. While we are on that topic, I am also missing Bibliocraft in your pack

Your pack is design to cater to resource generation primarily, which would quickly bore me. After I produce myself into the pseudo-creative age, I want neat-looking toys to be creative with, even if they do absolutely nothing other than look neat.

Thus, just as you say, your pack is not for everyone.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Just wanting to explain the reason I want Forestry in a pack I play here real quick.

The reason I breed trees is because I like the way the trees look, and I like the way some of the wood types look. I want them for aesthetic purposes. Honestly, I don't choose mods by how much resources they can give me for how little effort (aside from the fact that I tend to avoid the broken ones because I don't want things to be too easy). I choose them by the way they allow me to build something neat. While we are on that topic, I am also missing Bibliocraft in your pack

Your pack is design to cater to resource generation primarily, which would quickly bore me. After I produce myself into the pseudo-creative age, I want neat-looking toys to be creative with, even if they do absolutely nothing other than look neat.

Thus, just as you say, your pack is not for everyone.

Hmm... you DO have a valid point here. I've been emphasizing function over form. Probably the engineer in me.

Microblocks, as has been said, has some issues with TE, and I'm kinda wanting to wait until that gets ironed out before including.

Bibliocraft seems to be reserving most of its rights, so I don't think I would be able to get permission to include it in my mod pack.

 

[wolfsilver00]

Sorry but not buying steampunk FTW but.. not this time But, good idea, maybe improve it a little with some textures and some mob mods?

 

[YX33A]

Spoiler

*snip*
And you are welcome to your opinion, and I thank you for sharing it.

And I thank you for not getting your knickers in a knot for me saying I will never use this modpack.
Also:

Who ever said I was trying to tell anyone how to play Minecraft? I'm simply trying to make a minimalistic mod pack which isn't so bloated with worthless or useless crap..

You might want to reread what you quoted for that line. Just sayin'. But I can understand the desire behind a minimalistic mod pack, even though I find that they shoehorn players more then they likely intend to. I prefer having more choices then what your pack would offer. Kind of why my personal "mod pack" has IC2, BC, Railcraft, TE, MFR, Forestry, TC3, Ars Magicka, EE3, a UE suite, Factorization, and many more mods. We just have different views on what we want in our game.
[quote="KirinDave, post: 241660, member: 26391"All I can say is that I did apologize and tried to cut off the discussion when I saw it was going nowhere. Please, take this full refund for the price you paid for this thread. And know that I'm really okay with you respecting me less. I probably don't deserve the respect I was awarded in the first place.[/quote]I wasn't referring to you, nor do I really have much invested into this thread. Just wanted to share my two bits.

...Besides, who can be mad at a guy who uses Galuf(as a summoner no less) as his Icon?


Long story short, you're making it, not me, I won't use it, and I personally think it'll never be very popular(or even well used or mentioned) because it's so minimalistic. You would only get a very select group of players to use it. Why? Because it's a very minimalistic pack and thus you can only attract people who want to use just those mods. Kind of why Ultimate, despite being very sloppy and having glaring mistakes in places, is a popular mod pack. And it's popular because it offers plenty of choices.

Anyway, please don't quote this post, I'd rather not keep reading this thread because I have said my piece and would like to take my leave of it. If you desire to discuss something about what I said further, send me a PM. I'd rather not turn this thread into a giant rant from me.
Hence why this is all in a spoiler because I want to take up less of the space on this page so people can more easily ignore my wall of text.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sorry but not buying steampunk FTW but.. not this time But, good idea, maybe improve it a little with some textures and some mob mods?

Texture Packs are separate and different from mod packs. You can do both! I'm making a Mod Pack, not a Texture Pack. However, I will say that JSTR Texture Pack would work marvelously with this mod pack...