Why no new launcher.
- Thread starter slowpoke
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If they don't try to get ahead now they will have to play "catch-up" later. Change is coming whether you like it or not, and I for one would rather have a launcher in place that won't need much if any modification once 1.7 packs start appearing than one where not only the launcher but all the packs will need substantial work before they can be released.
So, I just updated the launcher. Now its all bugged out to where the launcher does not even want to load. all that pops up is the console and a bunch of red text. Whats wrong?
Yeah I literally saw Aron1973's post and its the same problem so I was just about to go there. (Hopefully to see a solution)Post a tech support thread, I'm here to help, but not in this thread
Awesome work for the FTB team here, I had troubles launching the new Horizon pack but once I've restarted the launcher, it worked out of the box, so many new mods I don't understand there, will have to wait a few months for good LP to start explaining the new mods... For now, I'm stuck with DW20 1.5.2 packs, my brother is a king with the beekeeping stuff, it takes a lot of time to get there so we don't want to have to restart from scratch, will wait a few months perhaps and start a new game on DW20 1.6.4 when most of the bugs and problems are fixed, I try to stay away from the first released versions of modpacks, they always have problems that need fixing so better wait for a stable version that is really completely bug free, but at same time, I know its impossible to have a bug free modpack, so many mods have to be put together that there will always be something to fix, its the way modpacks are made... Kuddos to all the modders and people that work in the FTB team for this awesome release...
Or you could be that guy making the LP's
Or you could be that guy making the LP's
Would love to do it, but no matter what recording software I try to use, (I have fraps, and I tried bandicam too) my FPS is around 10-12 max when I record anything that is higher quality than 360p, also for 1minute of recording the file is larger than 1gb, I wouldn't be able to upload that to youtube anyways, let alone a 15-30 minute segment, it would bust my stupid bandwith limit really quickly (got 250gb of bandwith each month, I can't go over that limit)
Also, I'm not very good to figure out how the new mods are working, I hate wiki, since most of them aren't up to date, and most interesting mods don't have any kind of wiki when they are first released, will have to try to find an expert about the new mods...
Alright, I finally got to sit down and try out the Horizons pack.
Had no problem with the update and pack download, loaded up fine.
The worlds run smooth for over 2 hours worth of play, it's a completely different experience then my last single player world that I've been sitting in for months. From the top to the bottom, and with more plants (love plants).
Had no problem with the update and pack download, loaded up fine.
The worlds run smooth for over 2 hours worth of play, it's a completely different experience then my last single player world that I've been sitting in for months. From the top to the bottom, and with more plants
(love plants).Correct. The Mod packs are the thing. Jaded's Magic Farm has been a major lesson -- it's relearning a lot, and trying to learn a lot of new stuff. Food doesn't work anything like it did before, and between the hunger changes, the tool changes (TiC + Iguana + some more tweaks), and the nastier mobs, well, imagine trying to learn minecraft without a comprehensive wiki -- Hunger Overhaul changes how food works, Pam's HarvestCraft gives lots of new food, but just try to find docs on the details. And the whole new behavior of mobs isn't documented either.
And that's just the most obvious mobs -- there's another several dozen mods that change things to be learned.
I am actually using the vanilla launcher. As far as I know, I'm the only one on the testing team using a Mac, and the beta launcher was never available for the mac. I'm skilled enough that if you give me a mods folder, and a config folder, and tell me which version of forge to use, I can put that together. But I'm able to do that because I've done low-level cr*p with minecraft since beta 1.9 (even writing my own shell script launcher to have multiple versions in different directories back in 1.2.3 to 1.4.7). I spent the time playing with, and learning, the vanilla launcher, as well as the 1.6 version of magic launcher, and frankly I can probably update my shell script launcher soon if I wanted to. (It's not going to be pretty -- I don't know how to parse the json files from bash, but as long as they don't change much I can just use their known contents).
Ok, you are talking to me. That was me.
For Alpha 1, I actually took the time to take the list of mods, go through, look up each mod's forum thread, get a quick statement of what the mod was about, read the OP, and any wiki I could find, look for anything that was a potential mod interaction to document what would need to be tested, etc.
I was trying to get exactly what you were asking for -- extensive knowledge of the mod pack, and what needs to be tested, etc. -- to give us a roadmap for organized testing.
After one day, and barely making it to the end of the A's, I asked the others on the team to help me. Well, at the time, the team was a lot smaller, and the help didn't happen. And, the mod pack kept getting updated and modified. I got one play session on that pack, and the biggest thing I noticed -- and the person I played with confirmed -- was that hunger drained much faster than normal. (Apparently part of Pam's harvest craft, I think.)
But then the server was changed to Alpha 2 -- which was changed to Alpha 3 before I had a chance to use A2.
For A3, I didn't bother to try to document what was in it -- everytime I tried to understand what I was playing before I played, I lost the time/chance to play. I just went in and tried to play. I knew about TiC, and Iguana's tweaks, and thought I understood it well enough to play. (I didn't -- I made a few oppsies because I was basically learning a whole new game, that just happens to use the same engine).
But ... Spawn Protection? Do you know how often I've run into spawn protection?
I never run into it in single player.
My multiplayer world? Not only did I turn spawn protection off (well, "0") because it's a private server for a few friends, not a public server ruined by griefers, but the whole issue didn't even exist back in 125 when you actually spawned at the spawn point rather than a random spot near the spawn point (not to mention the x/y/z instead of x/z/y spawn location bug) with a large protection area needed; besides, since it's a small private server, we're all op anyways.
Spawn protection? I've tried playing on public servers, only to find the whole "Anyone trying to start gets hit by PvP'ers or griefers even on servers that prohibit the whole thing". The only thing I've ever seen that actually looks like it would work properly is GriefPrevention, which actually works for single players -- everything else I've seen is either aimed at guilds or is more roll-back than prevention. Or worse, when you start you can't do anything and are in a "welcome" area and have to first become a member before you can begin playing.
Did I have any documentation prepared about that mod pack? No. I had not played it before in it's 147 (15x?) incarnation, and my opinion of TiC being overpowered is fairly well-known -- Jaded teased me about it. I don't like TiC. I think it would be great if you had only one "upgrade" slot on your items -- three is too many. Maybe some people want two. Maybe mDiyo could make the number of slots on your items a config option -- no, when I suggested that, it was turned down. The whole thing of some tier-1 items having 2 parts while others have three parts means that they aren't equal quality -- more parts means more special abilities. Your "tool binding" part has no effect except to add special abilities -- so paper is a free extra slot. In general, the whole TiC system is just not well thought out -- even if you had some material that gets faster as it wears out, and it made sense to say that using it on the head results in faster mining, does it make sense that the handle would also behave that way?
Stock TiC, with no changes, completely obsoletes normal tools. Other than maybe an initial pick to get started, there's basically no point to anything other than a "max enchanted" diamond pick, and then only because unbreaking 4 / efficiency 5 exceeds TiC's best -- but repairing TiC equipment is easier (so unbreaking doesn't matter), and E5 needs a beacon for it's instant break.
Iguana's tweaks, with the leveling system -- you start with NO upgrade slots, and gain then as you use the tools; the tools do wear out and need to be replaced; repairs get more and more expensive as you go -- actually makes a really good balance. The additional changes of not allowing certain types of materials to be used for certain parts is also a good improvement.
But changing from basically 5 mining strengths to 7 mining strengths?
Removing the ability to even make a wood sword -- and yes, they do really exist?
Not even being able to make a hoe or axe initially?
Having the choice to use TiC instead of being required to use TiC?
Stock TiC overpowers vanilla tools.
IG makes TiC a choice, no longer obviously overpowered.
But magic farm's configs are set to prevent vanilla tools (remember, IG can do either mode, and defaults to no vanilla).
How well do I know TiC? Give me 30 minutes and a chance to review a choice matrix, and a supply of materials, and a pre-built smeltry, and I can make a decent pick. So this isn't going to be an easy mod pack for me to play and test.
Now, none of that gets to the other flaw of TiC. The material costs don't match. A vanilla pick takes 2 "handle" and 3 "material"; a TiC pick takes 2 and 1. TiC adds tons of ores, for very little purpose, and then adds a doubling system on top of that. So if you had an ore that generates one block per chunk with TiC's system, it would be roughly 6 blocks per chunk if you did not have doubling and had three times the material expense.
So TiC's ore gen isn't balanced for vanilla purposes. And TiC isn't balanced for vanilla. In fact -- personal opinion here -- given how much ore vanilla tosses at you, any mod that can't get by on vanilla's ore rates, and needs to double it -- any mod where doubling isn't just a waste -- has excessive material costs for what you build. And "one ore per chunk" of the nether ores is just bad.
I'm calling you out. I think you're full of it. My challenge: Play Terra-Firma-Craft without using any wiki or guides. After all, it's just a mod -- a single mod -- for Minecraft, right? So it should be the same game, right? You should have extensive knowledge, and know what to do, right?
HA.
Knowing the engine, and knowing the specifics of the pack, are very different.
I was playing what was basically a new game (my thaumcraft experience is little more than using a harness and googles of revealing; I've never used P's HC, Hunger Overhaul, etc), and you saw me run into a game mechanic that I have never had to worry about before. Ever.
===
Like Jaded, I will acknowledge my lack of tact, and lack of diplomacy. I think you are judgmental and arrogant (the two often go hand-in-hand). I am even recognizing that I'm being slightly rude in this paragraph. But you seem to feel that you can tell when someone doing testing is incompetent, when the truth is we're asked to test, without proper knowledge, without access to op privileges to test the high-end stuff, with worlds that reset daily, with modpacks that are changed daily without even giving us a "what's new" heads up -- we have to go through the list of mods and see what's changed -- and you seem to feel that we should do better -- that *you could do better*. I'd love to see you try. Hence, my TFC challenge. I know I would fail at it. You?
And that's just the most obvious mobs -- there's another several dozen mods that change things to be learned.
I am actually using the vanilla launcher. As far as I know, I'm the only one on the testing team using a Mac, and the beta launcher was never available for the mac. I'm skilled enough that if you give me a mods folder, and a config folder, and tell me which version of forge to use, I can put that together. But I'm able to do that because I've done low-level cr*p with minecraft since beta 1.9 (even writing my own shell script launcher to have multiple versions in different directories back in 1.2.3 to 1.4.7). I spent the time playing with, and learning, the vanilla launcher, as well as the 1.6 version of magic launcher, and frankly I can probably update my shell script launcher soon if I wanted to. (It's not going to be pretty -- I don't know how to parse the json files from bash, but as long as they don't change much I can just use their known contents).
Ok, you are talking to me. That was me.
For Alpha 1, I actually took the time to take the list of mods, go through, look up each mod's forum thread, get a quick statement of what the mod was about, read the OP, and any wiki I could find, look for anything that was a potential mod interaction to document what would need to be tested, etc.
I was trying to get exactly what you were asking for -- extensive knowledge of the mod pack, and what needs to be tested, etc. -- to give us a roadmap for organized testing.
After one day, and barely making it to the end of the A's, I asked the others on the team to help me. Well, at the time, the team was a lot smaller, and the help didn't happen. And, the mod pack kept getting updated and modified. I got one play session on that pack, and the biggest thing I noticed -- and the person I played with confirmed -- was that hunger drained much faster than normal. (Apparently part of Pam's harvest craft, I think.)
But then the server was changed to Alpha 2 -- which was changed to Alpha 3 before I had a chance to use A2.
For A3, I didn't bother to try to document what was in it -- everytime I tried to understand what I was playing before I played, I lost the time/chance to play. I just went in and tried to play. I knew about TiC, and Iguana's tweaks, and thought I understood it well enough to play. (I didn't -- I made a few oppsies because I was basically learning a whole new game, that just happens to use the same engine).
But ... Spawn Protection? Do you know how often I've run into spawn protection?
I never run into it in single player.
My multiplayer world? Not only did I turn spawn protection off (well, "0") because it's a private server for a few friends, not a public server ruined by griefers, but the whole issue didn't even exist back in 125 when you actually spawned at the spawn point rather than a random spot near the spawn point (not to mention the x/y/z instead of x/z/y spawn location bug) with a large protection area needed; besides, since it's a small private server, we're all op anyways.
Spawn protection? I've tried playing on public servers, only to find the whole "Anyone trying to start gets hit by PvP'ers or griefers even on servers that prohibit the whole thing". The only thing I've ever seen that actually looks like it would work properly is GriefPrevention, which actually works for single players -- everything else I've seen is either aimed at guilds or is more roll-back than prevention. Or worse, when you start you can't do anything and are in a "welcome" area and have to first become a member before you can begin playing.
Did I have any documentation prepared about that mod pack? No. I had not played it before in it's 147 (15x?) incarnation, and my opinion of TiC being overpowered is fairly well-known -- Jaded teased me about it. I don't like TiC. I think it would be great if you had only one "upgrade" slot on your items -- three is too many. Maybe some people want two. Maybe mDiyo could make the number of slots on your items a config option -- no, when I suggested that, it was turned down. The whole thing of some tier-1 items having 2 parts while others have three parts means that they aren't equal quality -- more parts means more special abilities. Your "tool binding" part has no effect except to add special abilities -- so paper is a free extra slot. In general, the whole TiC system is just not well thought out -- even if you had some material that gets faster as it wears out, and it made sense to say that using it on the head results in faster mining, does it make sense that the handle would also behave that way?
Stock TiC, with no changes, completely obsoletes normal tools. Other than maybe an initial pick to get started, there's basically no point to anything other than a "max enchanted" diamond pick, and then only because unbreaking 4 / efficiency 5 exceeds TiC's best -- but repairing TiC equipment is easier (so unbreaking doesn't matter), and E5 needs a beacon for it's instant break.
Iguana's tweaks, with the leveling system -- you start with NO upgrade slots, and gain then as you use the tools; the tools do wear out and need to be replaced; repairs get more and more expensive as you go -- actually makes a really good balance. The additional changes of not allowing certain types of materials to be used for certain parts is also a good improvement.
But changing from basically 5 mining strengths to 7 mining strengths?
Removing the ability to even make a wood sword -- and yes, they do really exist?
Not even being able to make a hoe or axe initially?
Having the choice to use TiC instead of being required to use TiC?
Stock TiC overpowers vanilla tools.
IG makes TiC a choice, no longer obviously overpowered.
But magic farm's configs are set to prevent vanilla tools (remember, IG can do either mode, and defaults to no vanilla).
How well do I know TiC? Give me 30 minutes and a chance to review a choice matrix, and a supply of materials, and a pre-built smeltry, and I can make a decent pick. So this isn't going to be an easy mod pack for me to play and test.
Now, none of that gets to the other flaw of TiC. The material costs don't match. A vanilla pick takes 2 "handle" and 3 "material"; a TiC pick takes 2 and 1. TiC adds tons of ores, for very little purpose, and then adds a doubling system on top of that. So if you had an ore that generates one block per chunk with TiC's system, it would be roughly 6 blocks per chunk if you did not have doubling and had three times the material expense.
So TiC's ore gen isn't balanced for vanilla purposes. And TiC isn't balanced for vanilla. In fact -- personal opinion here -- given how much ore vanilla tosses at you, any mod that can't get by on vanilla's ore rates, and needs to double it -- any mod where doubling isn't just a waste -- has excessive material costs for what you build. And "one ore per chunk" of the nether ores is just bad.
I'm calling you out. I think you're full of it. My challenge: Play Terra-Firma-Craft without using any wiki or guides. After all, it's just a mod -- a single mod -- for Minecraft, right? So it should be the same game, right? You should have extensive knowledge, and know what to do, right?
HA.
Knowing the engine, and knowing the specifics of the pack, are very different.
I was playing what was basically a new game (my thaumcraft experience is little more than using a harness and googles of revealing; I've never used P's HC, Hunger Overhaul, etc), and you saw me run into a game mechanic that I have never had to worry about before. Ever.
===
Like Jaded, I will acknowledge my lack of tact, and lack of diplomacy. I think you are judgmental and arrogant (the two often go hand-in-hand). I am even recognizing that I'm being slightly rude in this paragraph. But you seem to feel that you can tell when someone doing testing is incompetent, when the truth is we're asked to test, without proper knowledge, without access to op privileges to test the high-end stuff, with worlds that reset daily, with modpacks that are changed daily without even giving us a "what's new" heads up -- we have to go through the list of mods and see what's changed -- and you seem to feel that we should do better -- that *you could do better*. I'd love to see you try. Hence, my TFC challenge. I know I would fail at it. You?
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keybounce is on the team for several reasons
1. He is fricking awesome at jvm stuff and mermory usage and profiling, the man is an expert on optimizing servers. He is a large portion of what will hopefully make FTB servers more stable in the 1.6 packs, ProfMobius being another large part of that.
2. He is good at figuring mods out with a bare minimum of information and gives useful feedback on balance. He and I and Eyamaz don't always see eye to eye but he thinks about the reasons behind his suggestions, and they are seldom just a personal preference. They usually have sound logic and reasoning behind them. (Even if I don't always agree with him)
It does us no good to only have "experienced" minecrafters on the test team. Plus with Horizon's and Magic Farm only a few people know all the mods, Direwolf and I would be unable to give you a full run down of some of the mods in Horizons, they are just that new. I know Magic Farm because I built it, and I still sometimes look things up. Also all experienced minecrafters started as unexperienced players determined to learn everything they could.
1. He is fricking awesome at jvm stuff and mermory usage and profiling, the man is an expert on optimizing servers. He is a large portion of what will hopefully make FTB servers more stable in the 1.6 packs, ProfMobius being another large part of that.
2. He is good at figuring mods out with a bare minimum of information and gives useful feedback on balance. He and I and Eyamaz don't always see eye to eye but he thinks about the reasons behind his suggestions, and they are seldom just a personal preference. They usually have sound logic and reasoning behind them. (Even if I don't always agree with him)
It does us no good to only have "experienced" minecrafters on the test team. Plus with Horizon's and Magic Farm only a few people know all the mods, Direwolf and I would be unable to give you a full run down of some of the mods in Horizons, they are just that new. I know Magic Farm because I built it, and I still sometimes look things up. Also all experienced minecrafters started as unexperienced players determined to learn everything they could.
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keybounce works on memory profiling with me on my jvm argument thread, and specificly for me doing memory profilingon the testing team. I did not pick him for his "Extensive knowledge of mods," I picked him specifically because he knows exactly the things I am looking for in memory profiling and is something we need going forward. Profiling mods and helping authors streamline issues is a big thing, and many many mod authors we have been in contact with appreciate it.
He does his work, he does it well, leave it be.
He does his work, he does it well, leave it be.
Wow, I am quite surprised about the scale of the new launcher. I for long just thought that it was a matter of making it work with MC 1.6, but this is truly amazing! Not only are you enabling the use of your own mod packs in a phenomenally new and ingenious way, but the fact that you are also putting so much effort into allowing other people to release their own mod packs with the same functionality is mind blowing!
All this actually makes me feel kind of guilty for not paying good money for this service you are working so hard to provide! After all I am paying Mojang for playing their brilliant, but a bit limited game. Think I might have a look around for a donate button somewhere or have a browse in the shop, because this is worth just as much to me! I know that we probably cant repay you for all the hours put into this, but if we can make things a little easier or can help give you guys a little fun as a reward, then I think we all owe it to you!
I know that this is something that you don't see very often on the forum(shamefully quite the opposite most of the time), bit I am (and I am sure a lot of other people out there) extremely grateful for the work you put into this and I am awaiting this new launcher like a little kid the morning before Christmas!
All this actually makes me feel kind of guilty for not paying good money for this service you are working so hard to provide! After all I am paying Mojang for playing their brilliant, but a bit limited game. Think I might have a look around for a donate button somewhere or have a browse in the shop, because this is worth just as much to me! I know that we probably cant repay you for all the hours put into this, but if we can make things a little easier or can help give you guys a little fun as a reward, then I think we all owe it to you!
I know that this is something that you don't see very often on the forum(shamefully quite the opposite most of the time), bit I am (and I am sure a lot of other people out there) extremely grateful for the work you put into this and I am awaiting this new launcher like a little kid the morning before Christmas!
Wow, I am quite surprised about the scale of the new launcher. I for long just thought that it was a matter of making it work with MC 1.6, but this is truly amazing! Not only are you enabling the use of your own mod packs in a phenomenally new and ingenious way, but the fact that you are also putting so much effort into allowing other people to release their own mod packs with the same functionality is mind blowing!
All this actually makes me feel kind of guilty for not paying good money for this service you are working so hard to provide! After all I am paying Mojang for playing their brilliant, but a bit limited game. Think I might have a look around for a donate button somewhere or have a browse in the shop, because this is worth just as much to me! I know that we probably cant repay you for all the hours put into this, but if we can make things a little easier or can help give you guys a little fun as a reward, then I think we all owe it to you!
I know that this is something that you don't see very often on the forum(shamefully quite the opposite most of the time), bit I am (and I am sure a lot of other people out there) extremely grateful for the work you put into this and I am awaiting this new launcher like a little kid the morning before Christmas!
pick one of these guys to donate to, they're the ones that make this possible.
THe upcoming packs in no particular order
Horizons - New Mods
Magic Farm 2 - 80% conversion
Direwolf20 - surprise
Tech World 2
Magic World 2
FTB Lite 2 - Geared towards small servers and older computers a base pack that can be customized by adding another mod or 2 if you want.
2-3 more packs later
Is there gonna be an Unleashed pack among those 2-3 missing packs? (Or similar... im just looking for the cool-mods dont-worry-if-op pack)
If there is not, would DW20 pack be the closest spiritual successor to Unleashed? (never tried tech world or magic world, with either one i would feel like im missing a big part of modded MC)
Thank you!
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