Why do you like hardmode/grindy minecraft?

[Cptqrk]

I see some talk about gated progress, but I don't see anyone mentioning Thaumcraft when it comes to this.

Personally, I find Thaumcraft's way of gating progress interesting. It leaves the choices up to the player as to what path to go down first, and what items to shoot for. I don't get the same "vibe" from mods like Gregtech.
I'm also confused by people stating that they dislike grinding, for grinding's sake, yet also state they enjoy Gregtech. Look, I'm not beating up on the mod, but isn't one of the main parts of working with it, is making items that take a lot of steps to make?

Take the electric furnace for example. Sure, I get the idea of putting/making a battery for it (hence the electric part) but why does one have to work each iron ingot into sheets? Even further down the road, those sheets have to be worked again to become (plates? I'm don't remember off the top of my head atm) something else to use. Hammers with durability to work the ingots, wire cutters to cut the sheets into wire, to make into cable, to use with sheets/plates to make one thing, and why is there always something left over? LOL

Maybe I've avoided using GT for so long that I've forgotten what ever it is that allows this contradiction in statements. I don't like grindy, but GT is okay...

Again, thank you everyone for your thoughts, and for keeping it civil.. Yes one person pulled out the "go play creative" card, but that got shot down quite thoroughly

 

[zilvarwolf]

As good as Thaumcraft is, it's far too easy to reach a point where the thought of having to repeat it is an unbearable grind for some.

I've restarted worlds several times, and shifted servers to play with different groups of friends or because disaster recovery failed and each time I look at the Thaumcraft grind with ever more disgust. It's to the point now where I'll pay a friend in materials or actions just to get a blood wand with a focus of equal trade. Nothing else is even remotely valuable enough to justify going through that again.

Thaumcraft is to be praised for being an amazingly designed mod with some of the most memorable mechanics and visuals to be found, but...not again. Please no...not again.

 

[MigukNamja]

Elephant in the room : GT

The Good : Tiered progression for those looking for tiered progression. The technology/machine are fun for a lot of people. Makes for challenging base builds. Prolongs the game for those looking for a slower pace.

The Bad : I think most people would agree GT recipes are too tedious. The sheer number of sub-combines is not fun for most. For some, the slow pace and forced (gated) progression is too tedious. The wood nerf is a good example. Also, very hard to break/get into for noobs (like I was not long ago). It's best if you have someone on the same server showing you the ropes or else have a pack designed to teach you GT.

The Ugly : Not the prettiest mod. But, hey, it works.

GT is not a conversion mod for everyone. And, for those (like me) that do enjoy GT, I don't always use it in every world, such as in RotaryCraft/ReactorCraft worlds. I like a change of pace sometimes.

 

[Golrith]

I use the wood nerf myself in my pack (1 log = 2 planks, 1 coal/charcoal = 1 torch (tree breeding still gives 4 wood, small bonus for doing tree breeding)), and it works well. But, the player still has access to mod added sawmills, so you can get more wood if you use a sawmill, where previously there was no need to.

 

[MigukNamja]

I use the wood nerf myself in my pack (1 log = 2 planks, 1 coal/charcoal = 1 torch (tree breeding still gives 4 wood, small bonus for doing tree breeding)), and it works well. But, the player still has access to mod added sawmills, so you can get more wood if you use a sawmill, where previously there was no need to.

Sweet ! In GT, it's a bit more tedious. I like GT overall, but constantly making and breaking tools is annoying. I 'get it' that it encourages progression, but it's not fun having to re-craft all the GT hand tools (hammer, file, wrench, saw, etc.,.) when they constantly break.

Early-game crafting assistance mods help a *lot* in this regard.

 

[Ieldra]

As good as Thaumcraft is, it's far too easy to reach a point where the thought of having to repeat it is an unbearable grind for some.

I've restarted worlds several times, and shifted servers to play with different groups of friends or because disaster recovery failed and each time I look at the Thaumcraft grind with ever more disgust. It's to the point now where I'll pay a friend in materials or actions just to get a blood wand with a focus of equal trade. Nothing else is even remotely valuable enough to justify going through that again.

Thaumcraft is to be praised for being an amazingly designed mod with some of the most memorable mechanics and visuals to be found, but...not again. Please no...not again.

What exactly is the issue? I can see several areas that can get a little tedious, but really nothing I'd call an unbearable grind. Just curious here. Also, you don't really play Thaumcraft for the results. At least, I wouldn't because they aren't all that impressive if you have a number of other mods installed. You play Thaumcraft for the style. It's a work of art and should be enjoyed as such rather than as a tool.

But....unbearable grind, thy name is Forestry Beekeeping. Vanilla Forestry, without Extra Bees or Gendustry. I did this once - bred about 15 species without any help from other mods, because I wanted to see how things work. Never again! Never again will I touch any bee with a ten-foot pole without the reassuring weight and power of several Gendustry machines at my back. And to think that Mariculture fish breeding is *worse*...

As an extension to the OP's question, I would be interested in why people do Forestry Beekeeping without Gendustry?

 

[midi_sec]

As an extension to the OP's question, I would be interested in why people do Forestry Beekeeping without Gendustry?

Oh I beekeep without gendustry. I don't like gendustry for bees tbh, so I use binnie's. Why do I not use gendustry? the mod has so many "I win" buttons it almost makes bee breeding laughably easy. Hell biome emulation for example, seriously?

Don't get me wrong, when testing, gendustry is great. You can leapfrog to top tier bees fast. but in my playthroughs, I don't necessarily want the fastest route.

And to think that Mariculture fish breeding is *worse*...

for now. it's getting binnie's mod support.

 

[Loufmier]

What exactly is the issue? I can see several areas that can get a little tedious, but really nothing I'd call an unbearable grind. Just curious here. Also, you don't really play Thaumcraft for the results. At least, I wouldn't because they aren't all that impressive if you have a number of other mods installed. You play Thaumcraft for the style. It's a work of art and should be enjoyed as such rather than as a tool.

well, it depends on the pack. in some packs TC is the only option to get results, and depending on required result it can be quite painful.
for instance if you're to automate MFR's bioreactor in AgS at somewhat decent efficiency using golems is the only choice(at least the only one i'm aware of).

Oh I beekeep without gendustry. I don't like gendustry for bees tbh, so I use binnie's. Why do I not use gendustry? the mod has so many "I win" buttons it almost makes bee breeding laughably easy. Hell biome emulation for example, seriously?

gendustry bee breeding isn't all that different from extrabees pre uberbreeder nerf, but faster and doesn't require DNA.

to me, breeding has similar feeling to GT's endless multistage crafting, but less interactive, especially if done manually.

 

[midi_sec]

gendustry bee breeding isn't all that different from extrabees pre uberbreeder nerf, but faster and doesn't require DNA.

to me, breeding has similar feeling to GT's endless multistage crafting, but less interactive, especially if done manually.

It's not all that different, no, but to me binnie's was fast enough.

Pacing is a word used in a post above. I enjoy a good pace to my playthroughs. To me, Gendustry just trivializes all of the aspects of bee breeding that I enjoy. Also, you can plug and play different modules in an apiary, wat? Hell biome emulation? I enjoy exploration, and establishing a nether base just to breed the bees. Some don't, though.

 

[asb3pe]

What exactly is the issue? I can see several areas that can get a little tedious, but really nothing I'd call an unbearable grind. Just curious here. Also, you don't really play Thaumcraft for the results. At least, I wouldn't because they aren't all that impressive if you have a number of other mods installed. You play Thaumcraft for the style. It's a work of art and should be enjoyed as such rather than as a tool.

But....unbearable grind, thy name is Forestry Beekeeping. Vanilla Forestry, without Extra Bees or Gendustry. I did this once - bred about 15 species without any help from other mods, because I wanted to see how things work. Never again! Never again will I touch any bee with a ten-foot pole without the reassuring weight and power of several Gendustry machines at my back. And to think that Mariculture fish breeding is *worse*...

As an extension to the OP's question, I would be interested in why people do Forestry Beekeeping without Gendustry?

I agree with that person's Thaumcraft comments. But I may be biased because I'm not really into magic/fantasy type of stuff, I'm much more into machines/realism type of stuff. I guess that's what makes Thaumcraft such a grind when I'm having to do it for the third or fourth time in some new modpack I'm playing. It's just an attitude of "oh geez, not THIS again, I've already done it three times!!!!"

And as for Gendustry... yuck. Nothing personal against the mod or the mod designer, but bees did not need a shortcut mod, thankyouverymuch. I love my bees, and in comparison to Thaumcraft, I don't dread starting a new modpack and realizing "I have to do all the bees again for the umpteenth time." That's why I say I may have some sort of pro-technology, anti-magic bias or something...

 

[RedBoss]

I agree with that person's Thaumcraft comments. But I may be biased because I'm not really into magic/fantasy type of stuff, I'm much more into machines/realism type of stuff. I guess that's what makes Thaumcraft such a grind when I'm having to do it for the third or fourth time in some new modpack I'm playing. It's just an attitude of "oh geez, not THIS again, I've already done it three times!!!!"

And as for Gendustry... yuck. Nothing personal against the mod or the mod designer, but bees did not need a shortcut mod, thankyouverymuch. I love my bees, and in comparison to Thaumcraft, I don't dread starting a new modpack and realizing "I have to do all the bees again for the umpteenth time." That's why I say I may have some sort of pro-technology, anti-magic bias or something...

Thaumcraft research is just a grind period after once or twice. Though its a LOT better than the rune system. I personally tolerate the research because I use "easy" mode. I have alk the chores of gathering research points, but none of the puzzle game monotony. I know thats a tell order for servers, but its a great way to have research effort without research boredom. Its also slightly more expensive to use easy mode since you can't optimize research usage via the minigame.

 

[Ieldra]

well, it depends on the pack. in some packs TC is the only option to get results, and depending on required result it can be quite painful.
for instance if you're to automate MFR's bioreactor in AgS at somewhat decent efficiency using golems is the only choice(at least the only one i'm aware of).

That is very odd. The bioreactor worked really well for me with just exporting stuff out of my ME network. You need to put the first batch of every item in manually so that the export bus doesn't fill additional slots, and make sure your supply of raw materials doesn't run out so that no slots get emptied. That's pretty much it. No golems necessary. And yes, this was in AgS.

 

[Ieldra]

I agree with that person's Thaumcraft comments. But I may be biased because I'm not really into magic/fantasy type of stuff, I'm much more into machines/realism type of stuff. I guess that's what makes Thaumcraft such a grind when I'm having to do it for the third or fourth time in some new modpack I'm playing. It's just an attitude of "oh geez, not THIS again, I've already done it three times!!!!"

And as for Gendustry... yuck. Nothing personal against the mod or the mod designer, but bees did not need a shortcut mod, thankyouverymuch. I love my bees, and in comparison to Thaumcraft, I don't dread starting a new modpack and realizing "I have to do all the bees again for the umpteenth time." That's why I say I may have some sort of pro-technology, anti-magic bias or something...

Probably. I'm the exact opposite. I don't mind doing TC again at all, while thinking that if one mod needs a shortcut mod, it's Forestry bee breeding. Gendustry may be taking it a little far, but it does what I want most of all: it lets me avoid having to repeat stuff ad infinitum for no better reason than bad luck with the RNG. I'd rather do manual TC essence extraction for a whole day. It may be tedious, but I know I get something out of it at the end. Of all the vanilla forestry bee-breeding, I only liked making the species that had to be bred in the Nether. Yep, setting that up was work, but the chances of success were high and I didn't feel like Sisyphos. I wouldn't mind playing Gendustrry without biome emulations. I could even revert to Forestry aparies with little trouble. However, I'd never play without the Advanced Mutator.

 

[Loufmier]

That is very odd. The bioreactor worked really well for me with just exporting stuff out of my ME network. You need to put the first batch of every item in manually so that the export bus doesn't fill additional slots, and make sure your supply of raw materials doesn't run out so that no slots get emptied. That's pretty much it. No golems necessary. And yes, this was in AgS.

i guess i should have conveyed my thought in more detail...
TC golems in AgS is the only way(i'm aware of) that can keep fixed quantity of items in inventory, which is required for bioreactor automation, if you want to avoid efficiency drop if happened to have temporary supply deficit.

ofc there are other setups when it's preferential to keep machines stocked with less than a stack of items to avoid resources investment or to increase processing speed, but MFR's bioreactor is probably most common.

 

[zilvarwolf]

@Ieldra, @asb3pe really said it well I think. Thaumcraft research is an incredible timesink that is typically handled to get to some very specific results. The time spent scanning, researching, traveling, node hunting, and finally researching is just .. after the first time, it's tedious. After the 4th time..yeah.

In my current world, I made a research table and some paper and sat in front of it..then I threw it in some lava and told one of the other players what I wanted and asked what he wanted in return.

I could not bring myself to staring at the research interface and the scanning monocle for even just long enough to get the one item that I really wanted (especially since I'd have to set up an infusion table and all the rest..just ..no).

No.

 

[McJty]

I have done TC (partially, not fully yet) twice so far and I must say I actually like the prospect of doing the research again and discovering the aspects. For some reason that kind of thing appeals to me. I can understand why others don't like it though. Guess it is a personal thing.

 

[zilvarwolf]

i guess i should have conveyed my thought in more detail...
TC golems in AgS is the only way(i'm aware of) that can keep fixed quantity of items in inventory, which is required for bioreactor automation, if you want to avoid efficiency drop if happened to have temporary supply deficit.

ofc there are other setups when it's preferential to keep machines stocked with less than a stack of items to avoid resources investment or to increase processing speed, but MFR's bioreactor is probably most common.

Not having played AgS for more than an hour, are translocators not installed? That's my current go-to for bioreactor automation.

 

[Ieldra]

Not having played AgS for more than an hour, are translocators not installed? That's my current go-to for bioreactor automation.

No translocators in AgS. No Logistics Pipes either, which would be my preferred solution to this problem.

 

[Ieldra]

@Ieldra, @asb3pe really said it well I think. Thaumcraft research is an incredible timesink that is typically handled to get to some very specific results. The time spent scanning, researching, traveling, node hunting, and finally researching is just .. after the first time, it's tedious. After the 4th time..yeah.

In my current world, I made a research table and some paper and sat in front of it..then I threw it in some lava and told one of the other players what I wanted and asked what he wanted in return.

I could not bring myself to staring at the research interface and the scanning monocle for even just long enough to get the one item that I really wanted (especially since I'd have to set up an infusion table and all the rest..just ..no).

No.

I see. I guess I just don't feel the same way. It helps that I can do the regular research so fast and efficiently that it's actually easier than "easy" mode, which usually requires aspects I don't have enough of. Also I have a standard scanning sequence somewhere for getting all aspects unlocked very fast. Node-hunting is the worst part - I do occasionally cheat with moving nodes to my base once I've unlocked the tech - but since I usually have a mod to get flight early - these days it's most likely to be Simply Jetpacks - it's not so bad as it could be.

 

[zilvarwolf]

I see. I guess I just don't feel the same way. It helps that I can do the regular research so fast and efficiently that it's actually easier than "easy" mode, which usually requires aspects I don't have enough of. Also I have a standard scanning sequence somewhere for getting all aspects unlocked very fast. Node-hunting is the worst part - I do occasionally cheat with moving nodes to my base once I've unlocked the tech - but since I usually have a mod to get flight early - these days it's most likely to be Simply Jetpacks - it's not so bad as it could be.

And I felt similar the first and second times. It doesn't take that long. I can get what I want and pick up the rest later. I've got all these cheat sheets to help out, etc.

The third time, I unlocked everything (no KAMI installed). That was a looong process, and I didn't use 90% of what I worked toward. The fourth time, I unlocked almost up to KAMI (missing something from the primal charm, not sure what, but moved on from that server). Again, used less than 10% of the mod set. Much less, actually. This last time, I couldn't bring myself to that level of investment...I'd estimate a minimum of 6 hours of gameplay (not sure..it took me over a week real-time, with a couple of those days spent doing nothing but TC)...when I knew that it was a waste of time. A literal waste of time. Not happening again unless it's my only option. Not until the research mechanic changes again. I always enjoy the minigame. For a while.