Why do you like hardmode/grindy minecraft?

[Cptqrk]

*Moved thread, put it in the wrong section!

Look folks, there has been a lot of debate/rage/ranting as of late about modded minecraft being too easy, or that the "hard mode" mods are going to die/discontinue due to misinformation about a certain API.

If you have been following any of this, you will see, I'm not of the mind that "hard mode = fun" but I don't begrudge those who enjoy it. I fully support mod makers who wish to make these kinds of mods (like Rotarycraft) but do not intend to use them myself.

I can see this thread being used by mods to see what exactly people who like or dislike hard mode mods are looking for. Is it the grind? Is it complicated math? Is it multi-block structures that only work in a specific way?

I would like to know is:

What makes something hard mode to you?
Why do you like hard mode mods/packs?

or:

Why do you like what has been labelled as easy mode mods?

Please be specific. I'm not looking for "derp it's moar challenging!" We've heard this reason, but why is it more challenging to you? Why do you like it?

I'll go first.

While I can understand (to a point) someone enjoying the challenge of making ore, to make plates, to make a different plate, to cut up, then add rubber (you know what I'm talking about here LOL) I can't find the "fun" in that. I work too long during the day, well night now.. just switched over to graveyard shift, to have a game take up that much time to make one thing, that I may have to make multiple times to do something as simple as double my ore output. I'm not saying others don't have commitments, and that is what allows them to do these things, but what I'm saying is that doesn't apply to my situation.

I do not enjoy being constantly worrying about my hunger, what food I've recently ate that won't fill my hunger bar up anymore because I've eaten it too much. I don't enjoy grinding out massive amounts of ores to make small machines.

I like the ability to make some things, to get my resources going so that I can focus on other things like exploration, manual mining, and base building (something I'm horrible at, but I am working on)

I find hard mode just a waste of my time and consumes too much of it when I have to use it to accomplish certain things that could be done with other mods that don't take up 5x the resources to make the same system.

I hope that mod makers realize that some people enjoy playing this way, and at least allow some way in their configs to allow for this kind of play. This would allow folks who "don't got time for dat" to still enjoy their mods, and allow those who like to grind the joys of doing so, and maybe even bragging rights as they did it the hard way..

Please, let's not make this a flame war, I just want to hear opinions. Everyone has them.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and if you say you don't, you are full of shit.

Go!

 

[Loufmier]

Go!

i say masochism and spare time.

 

[epidemia78]

Theres a certain allure to the whole tech mod concept, and careful management of resources and power should be part of that. AKA grinding and math. Early game modded Minecraft is a blast because theres always something that needs doing and you need to make something else before you can even think about making what you really need. But once you get established and have to start thinking for yourself and build some elaborate structures or needlessly complicated automation, thats when the game gets real hardcore (because you have to start being creative)...and boring. Its almost like playing in creative mode at that point. Its hard to stay focused and motivated when you dont need anything. I think the grindier mods like Gregtech for example simply extend that time of need by making the goals harder to achieve. Even though I still havent played his mod, what Ive heard about Greg's hardcore changes to vanilla seem right on the money. Tech mods make a ridiculously easy game even easier.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I like complex mods. Complex, however, doesn't mean requiring ridiculous amounts of resources, long processing times, or many extra, largely pointless, crafting steps. Complex means that it requires some effort to understand the mechanics, and that there are multiple ways to achieve the same task, some more efficient, some less, but not a single correct way. Things that fall under this heading are relatively few, but I would probably include Rotarycraft, several magic mods, and anything that requires programming (computercraft (though I hate LUA), Steve's Factory Manager, Pneumaticraft drones, for example) assuming one doesn't simply copy the programs from the internet. My one caveat is I dislike mods/modpacks that force me to spend a long period of time before I have access to automated mining, simply because I dislike mining manually, as I find it boring.

I also like mods that add new, challenging enemies, as long as they don't have nonsensical mechanics (I'm looking at you, Infernal Mobs. How the heck does shooting something with an arrow poison or web me when I'm 25 meters away?)

 

[Cptqrk]

Great responses so far!

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Hardmode/"Challange mode" does not equal tedium.
Likewise if something is tedious, then it is not necessarily hard.

If something is hard then it requires a certain skill to master before you can do it.

(be it technical skill/understanding [rotarycraft/thaumcraft/IC2&BC collective], resource management/efficiency- designing a working machine/system using as few parts are possible, forward planning ect)​

Either way the challenge is engaging to the player, and getting them to think and design ahead is the aim of the game.

Tedious is when it doesn't engage the player- it doesn't mean hard, an 'easy' task/game can be equally tedious has a 'hard' one.
By example- mining.

Strip mining- digging tunnels is easy, but its pretty damn boring.
Cave diving- dangerous; risk of monsters, risk of getting lost. Its harder, but it engages the player- how do I prevent ambushes? how should I clear out this ravine? which tunnel was the way out?​

 

[Cptqrk]

Hardmode/"Challange mode" does not equal tedium.
Likewise if something is tedious, then it is not necessarily hard.

If something is hard then it requires a certain skill to master before you can do it.

(be it technical skill/understanding [rotarycraft/thaumcraft/IC2&BC collective], resource management/efficiency- designing a working machine/system using as few parts are possible, forward planning ect)​

Either way the challenge is engaging to the player, and getting them to think and design ahead is the aim of the game.

Tedious is when it doesn't engage the player- it doesn't mean hard, an 'easy' task/game can be equally tedious has a 'hard' one.
By example- mining.

Strip mining- digging tunnels is easy, but its pretty damn boring.
Cave diving- dangerous; risk of monsters, risk of getting lost. Its harder, but it engages the player- how do I prevent ambushes? how should I clear out this ravine? which tunnel was the way out?​

Okay, that explains your interpretation of hard mode/tedium and I can appreciate that. But what do you enjoy about the mods that are labelled as hard mode?
I'm asking for personal opinions, not just personal definitions

 

[malicious_bloke]

I like to use minetweaker to make every machine including the entry level ones use nether stars in the recipe.

Because everything else is too easy

 

[Cptqrk]

I like to use minetweaker to make every machine including the entry level ones use nether stars in the recipe.

Because everything else is too easy

Really friend? I call shenanigans..

If this is the case, why? Why do you feel everything is too easy? Have you been playing modded MC so long that it's not a challenge anymore? You know the recipes by heart and don't enjoy it anymore? This is the kind of information I'm looking for, not the "lulz it's too easy" kind of response.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Okay, that explains your interpretation of hard mode/tedium and I can appreciate that. But what do you enjoy about the mods that are labelled as hard mode?
I'm asking for personal opinions, not just personal definitions

Largely the sense of accomplishment, and level of immersion resulting from designing/building something with a tight resource budget (materials, space, and time), watching the world develop and change as a result of one's decisions/actions, as well as the overall quality of the mod authors work.

 

[Cptqrk]

Largely the sense of accomplishment, and level of immersion resulting from designing/building something with a tight resource budget (materials, space, and time), watching the world develop and change as a result of one's decisions/actions, as well as the overall quality of the mod authors work.

Great reasons!

 

[Schurf]

I enjoy having a hard version of GregTech in the packs I play, where the pack creator has balanced the pack very well. Much of the reason is exactly because it extends the game. I enjoy staying in a low-tech environment for a long time, building farms, a railway station for transportation and whatnot, and when I start getting some proper automation and jetpacks and whatnot, it feels a lot more rewarding.
To me, the nice thing about having a strict tech tree, is that it gives me an extended time to build things. I also like using Thaumcraft, Botania, Mariculture and breed bees, and slowly progress in all of it at the same time, instead of rushing to the max tech of a single mod, for the super duper stuff it has.

I play my worlds for a very long amount of time. Not necessarily for many hours a day, but I play the same world for months. And I'm not the kind of person who can enjoy having the highest tech possible with every mod, and still continue playing.

 

[Shazam08]

Everything in moderation. I've tried out both ends of the scale, and found I enjoy somewhere in the middle. The DW20 pack is the farthest I've ever gone in a modded tech tree (probably because it was my first modded world in a long time)... But there was no challenge. "I need food!" Well, time to stuff myself with potatoes until I'm ready to sprint again. "Oh no, I died!" So what? Respawn, use jet pack to reach your grave, move on with life. No penalty. Eventually I lost interest in the world because I had progressed too quickly, too far.

Then, being the innocent bastard that I was, I decided to try Blood N' Bones. Three days in and I was still holed up in a cave. No armor, no reliable food source, tools made of flint. Finally a challenge! But that world failed to hold my interest too. Why? Progression was too slow. I couldn't do anything that wasn't directly related to surviving. I got fed up with the Lycanite's mobs, the carry weight, carrying half slabs everywhere just to avoid jumping... It wasn't fun. It got tedious. I needed something in the middle.

My "middle" was packs like Agrarian Skies or ImpactFlux, which provided some challenge without being grindy-half-slab-extreme-realism difficult. HQM added direction to these packs and made death something to fear. Progression was hindered but not stalled. Happy medium.

Of course, these are just my opinions. I realize some people love DW20 and BnB and hate the "moderation" packs. But you asked for opinions, right?

 

[Wagon153]

I like the sense of accomplishment after making a complex Gregtech machine, or finishing a super efficient rotary craft lubricant/jet fuel setup. In packs like Monster, I get to end game then go "Now what?" I dislike building. I always live underground or sprawl across an extreme hills. Rube Goldberg machines hold no interest for me. Building a pyramid of diamond blocks is boring to me.

 

[pizzawolf14]

I didn't read this thread, sorry bout it if someone has made this analogy already.

For me, hard mods vs easy modes is like playing expert Sudoku vs beginner Sudoku. If you are learning how to play or need a little satisfaction with winning, then you do beginner Sudoku or easier mods. If you find yourself familiar with the game and want something the same but more difficult and with (IMO) more self-gratification, then you do the tedious expert Sudoku or harder mods.

 

[Alexiy]

*Moved thread, put it in the wrong section!


Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and if you say you don't, you are full of shit.

Quote of the day.

I don't like grindy mods because as you said, they just extend the time you are completing tech trees and such. But it's also a property of any game - any game will get boring no matter how many mods you add to it. Maybe some random quest generator would add fun to Minecraft...

 

[Vasa]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and if you say you don't, you are full of shit.

 

[Ieldra]

For me, "hard mode" means a lot of grinding. Grinding is by definition repetitive and has no appeal to me at all, except for making you appreciate the moment you've made it unnecessary.

As opposed to that, complexity or things that require a little work to understand are not "hard" mode, because I usually find such things easy, and even where I don't, it's never been difficult enough to qualify as "hard".

As opposed to some other people who posted here, for me the interesting part of modded minecraft starts at the point when overcoming resource shortages does not involve grinding any more.

Also, I don't really like the survival aspect of the game. I'm here to build stuff. Dealing with logistics and resource acquisition is a part of that, but having to fight in-between is an unwelcome distraction, and dealing with food is generally boring - though it doesn't need to be as I discovered with Agrarian Skies. Building complex food production chains can be just as interesting as more classically tech-y stuff.

 

[midi_sec]

Largely the sense of accomplishment, and level of immersion resulting from designing/building something with a tight resource budget (materials, space, and time), watching the world develop and change as a result of one's decisions/actions, as well as the overall quality of the mod authors work.

This. Everybody is in such a damn hurry to reach endgame. Why?

To me the game is most fun as a journey, because it's boring once you've got everything. I don't feel like doing creative megabuilds all the time, sometimes I just want to kill villagers in terrible and creative ways.

 

[Cptqrk]

sometimes I just want to kill villagers in terrible and creative ways.

Some would say that is "end game" type stuff. You need the infrastructure to do it, so Steve's week 1 shouldn't involve villager killing chambers

I would have to say the generalization of "everybody rushing to end game" is just that, a generalization. Personally, I don't feel like I've accomplished end game stuff by just dropping some simple TE stuff to get me going. The active phrase is "get me going".

Thank you, everyone, for adding in your opinions! I look forward to seeing more!