why do so many people dislike monsterpack

[mam89]

Basically people's view of what a modpack should be has changed and they don't understand the the FTB map pack has never and probably never will match the new style of themed packs.

This is probably why I don't understand all the harsh going on. I have a "I want to play with mods" mindset, and, if I get what you're saying, people have started cherry picking mods in order to map their gameplay more than less. If that's the case... welp. To each their own. If I didn't get that, please enlighten me

As far as DW20 and the other packs are concerned I figured as much. Just kinda wanted to point out that it's not fair to any of the new packs to compare them without the background knowledge that they're all managed by different people/ideas of what they should be. Hence giving people many options to choose from.

 

[Jadedcat]

This is probably why I don't understand all the harsh going on. I have a "I want to play with mods" mindset, and, if I get what you're saying, people have started cherry picking mods in order to map their gameplay more than less. If that's the case... welp. To each their own. If I didn't get that, please enlighten me

As far as DW20 and the other packs are concerned I figured as much. Just kinda wanted to point out that it's not fair to any of the new packs to compare them without the background knowledge that they're all managed by different people/ideas of what they should be. Hence giving people many options to choose from.

Yup. With all the redundancy in mods most packs now pick and choose which mods best fit the theme they are going for.

A lot of people keep trying to judge me based on the DW20 pack... Lite 2 and MF/MF2 are the packs you should judge me by as those are my babies. And people who don' understand Lite2 is supposed to be a small pack... can just go away.

 

[RedBoss]

The larger the pack,the higher the system strain. No matter who makes the pack, the mod community is definitely showing lots of demand for the 180+ sized packs. This is fine, but it limits access to the packs to people with either the right system to run them, and/or the ability to connect to a server that can share the load. This challenge is addressed by there being multiple packs available from several launchers. I hate walmart, but I also don't complain much about it because I shop elsewhere.

For me, these huge packs are fine, but I ultimately just start ripping out what I don't want. It's not a slight against any modpack maker. At this point in the game, I'm more than comfortable to just edit a pack to suit my own play style. Sure it relegated me to single player, but I don't have to complain much since my internet access is crappy and SMP isn't an option most of the time. I'm happier with my chopped down pack and my inventory management is easier to boot.

If you don't like a pack then don't use it. If you want to play with your friends then you'll have to use the pack selected by the majority or get them to use a custom pack. It's really that simple. Give as much constructive feedback as you can when you're asked by the modpack compilers. If they don't take your input then forge your own pack or take only what you want from what's available.

 

[zorn]

This is probably why I don't understand all the harsh going on. I have a "I want to play with mods" mindset, and, if I get what you're saying, people have started cherry picking mods in order to map their gameplay more than less. If that's the case... welp. To each their own. If I didn't get that, please enlighten me

As far as DW20 and the other packs are concerned I figured as much. Just kinda wanted to point out that it's not fair to any of the new packs to compare them without the background knowledge that they're all managed by different people/ideas of what they should be. Hence giving people many options to choose from.

I think older packs didnt have as many overlapping mods. As one guy said above, he got frustrated seeing his neighbor do all the things he did in 1/5th the time. This shouldnt bother people, but we are only human and we all have egos and jealousy, etc.

look at a pack like MF2, if you want to process ores its just te3, right? So everyone who goes the tech route has about the same choice. TC4 is pretty well balanced mod. no auto mining except the late game laser drill, correct?

So you wont have one person strugglin with rotary craft while another sets up quarries and some te3 stuff and starts rolling in ores with an ae system bragging his stockpiles up with monitors for everyone to see when they stop by. I know, it shouldnt work like this, but it does for a lot of players. One guy has 50k Iron, while aother guy says 'hey do i grease up this rotarycraft thingy again or not?' Or whatever.

Monster, to me, is the furthest thing from MF2 or the older packs, which WERE more balanced than it is. people say we shouldnt care about balance, but i think only older players sstop caring so much. You cant talk about how many pulverizer vs macerator arguments were posted here and then claim no one cares about balance. And.. its fun to discuss which item is more efficient, or better used in certain applications, or why it works better for your playstyle. All games attempt balance. Diamond swords do more damage than iron, but its harder to make them as the resource is scarcer. Balance.

The bigger packs get, and the more you have mods that arent old, long time mods that were designed *somewhat* with each other in mind (forestry, ic2, te, buildcraft) the more imbalances you will see, and the more youll see comments like the guy above, who got angry that he did a ton of work and didnt really get anything for it compared to his friend.

Then you have a pack like MF2 which does have balance in mind, and its pretty popular and gaining popularity id say. more and mor epeople talk about it now. If it didnt have the word Magic in the title, id think it would have done really well, anyone like me just ignored it when it came out assuming it was a magic themed pack only.

I think if somoene made a tech pack with balance as a goal like MF2 did, it would be immensely popular here. But for months anyone mentioning balance was laughed at... and yet now a pack did just that, and has people really excited again.

 

[Golrith]

Nice post there zorn, my Omega Dawn private pack (which, on a side note, I should advertise again, as there is space for a few players on my whitelisted server for anyone who is interested) does attempt a balanced tech pack (balanced to the set of mods within the pack naturally). It can be difficult though, as if one mod includes one item that throws out that "balance" and it's not configurable, it will cause "problems".

 

[Pyure]

While I have zero interest in playing Monster, I do believe it serves a great purpose in showcasing mods and how they can interact together; it goes back to the whole sandbox thing as usual.

But ultimately its a bit like Creative vs Survival: Yes, its nice having all those toys at your fingertips, but sometimes I want to challenge myself a bit above and beyond (or aside from) making pretty structures.

 

[Hoff]

As one guy said above, he got frustrated seeing his neighbor do all the things he did in 1/5th the time. This shouldnt bother people, but we are only human and we all have egos and jealousy, etc.

I don't think(At least speaking for myself) ideas of balance were laughed at but instead laughed at this mentality. You also alluded to why I laugh at it in your post:

people say we shouldnt care about balance, but i think only older players sstop caring so much

 

[Mevansuto]

Think something's overpowered for a public server? Turn it off, simple.

I don't like this attitude. I think it goes against the purpose of modpacks. I define the purpose of a modpack as someone has already organized a set of mods in a way which they should function well. If a modpack requires work to fit my needs then it's not the modpack for me. I'd rather use a modpack that does suit my needs (even if it's missing a mod or two). Due to my in for a penny, in for a pound philosophy, I feel if I need to add mods or edit configs then I might as well make my own pack.

 

[Hoff]

I don't like this attitude. I think it goes against the purpose of modpacks. I define the purpose of a modpack as someone has already organized a set of mods in a way which they should function well. If a modpack requires work to fit my needs then it's not the modpack for me. I'd rather use a modpack that does suit my needs (even if it's missing a mod or two). Due to my in for a penny, in for a pound philosophy, I feel if I need to add mods or edit configs then I might as well make my own pack.

FTB in and of itself is "against"(I use that word very lightly as the launcher now and the future launcher are designed in exact opposition to your philosophy) that philosophy but at the same time gives room to allow the latter part of your post. If you feel it is just as easy to add in all the mods to a pack rather than remove some to make it suit you then they give you that room. On the other hand it is easier for servers to disable some mods they don't want on their server as connecting clients don't have to change anything unless they just want their NEI to match up.

 

[Pyure]

@Mevansuto actually has something of a point. FTB modpacks are generally created with some sort of theme or goal in mind. While adherence to that theme is purely subjective, the packs can only improve while they're held up to scrutiny.

Which is why people care about Jadedcat's modpacks, and not, say, mine. Someone has put thought into assembling a specific series of mods and taken the time to ensure they at least function together. And they'll only get better due to feedback (ideally of a constructive nature)

Obviously that's not to say we shouldn't be able to edit modpacks. But if 100/100 folks say mod X doesn't belong in a pack, its likely the pack creator will take that under consideration and adjust the pack rather than telling everyone to do it themselves.

 

[midi_sec]

personally i don't see why "balance" matters so much, unless you're specifically wanting to play a PVE challenge pack like MF2, or building a SMP server with an economy.

i fall into the category of the older crowd, i don't have a problem bypassing the tried and true methods people talk about constantly on the forums. i enjoy being able to try out other, sometimes unorthodox methods of accomplishing my goals. the more different mods i can include in a process, the happier it makes me. monster is just about right for me these days. there are more than one straight forward ways to accomplish things, and in a lot of cases there's even more if you synergize two or more of the mods together.

the secret to playing with a big pack is self control; can you keep yourself from building your hypothetical boiler? (or whatever your "thing" is that you're compelled to build just because it's the best way). if you have self control, then you don't need a modpack author holding your hand through the experience telling you what is and isn't ok to play with.

 

[rhn]

the secret to playing with a big pack is self control; can you keep yourself from building your hypothetical boiler? (or whatever your "thing" is that you're compelled to build just because it's the best way). if you have self control, then you don't need a modpack author holding your hand through the experience telling you what is and isn't ok to play with.

I agree with you, but still thought I had to comment on this bit:
I don't feel the need to have to refrain from using the "best" solution. If it is the fastest, most efficient, least resource demanding solution while also appealing to me in style, then I will build it. And it will probably be my main solution. But the cool thing about these large "unbalanced" packs is that I can build my "best" solutions AND have all the other solutions as well next to it at the same time as backup solutions. Instead of having X times the same solution I can have X different solutions.

I used this example loads of times and people are probably getting sick of hearing it But instead of having 10 boilers, I have one boiler. If I use more power than that a group of engines for example automatically start. If that is not enough another group of different kinds of engines automatically start and so on. This way I get around a lot of mods both for the power generation, but also fuel generation, automatic control and so on. And that I love about the big "unbalanced" modpacks.

 

[Pyure]

the secret to playing with a big pack is self control; can you keep yourself from building your hypothetical boiler? (or whatever your "thing" is that you're compelled to build just because it's the best way). if you have self control, then you don't need a modpack author holding your hand through the experience telling you what is and isn't ok to play with.

I think everyone enjoys the various "challenges" minecraft can present them, whether its an aesthetic building challenge or a technological one. But if one really enjoys a tech progression challenge, then it doesn't feel "real" if the only thing keeping one from success is a "self control" measure.

A perfect example for me is nether lava: I refuse to use nether lava to generate power unless I'm carrying it back and forth in buckets. But it bugs me that I know I CAN use it if I really need to. I'd be a happier player if I could flip a switch that prevented any mass transportation of nether lava (via ender tanks/tesseracts/etc) because it would make my experience and success feel a bit more legitimate.

None of which matters a whole lot to primarily sandbox and builder players [DOUBLEPOST=1393614835][/DOUBLEPOST]

I used this example loads of times and people are probably getting sick of hearing it But instead of having 10 boilers, I have one boiler. If I use more power than that a group of engines for example automatically start. If that is not enough another group of different kinds of engines automatically start and so on. This way I get around a lot of mods both for the power generation, but also fuel generation, automatic control and so on. And that I love about the big "unbalanced" modpacks.

I don't see why we can't have our cake and eat it too. I want to do everything you just said, but with balance measures implemented!

 

[midi_sec]

i have an extreme difficulty hardcore mode savegame on Fallout New Vegas if i want that level of realism

myself, i refuse to use lava for power period. as far as portals and ender, logging into minecraft you either have to accept that the game mechanics exist in vanilla, or deny a large portion of the game.

3 words sum up my mentality regarding the game; it's just minecraft.

 

[AlanEsh]

I -love- Monster. It has a ton of wonderful mods that I love. The only reason I'm playing TechWorld2 instead is the fact that Monster is way too buggy yet and unexpected world resets piss me off to no end

 

[Pyure]

myself, i refuse to use lava for power period. as far as portals and ender, logging into minecraft you either have to accept that the game mechanics exist in vanilla, or deny a large portion of the game.

alternately...everyone is wrong about everything except for me.

no wait, seriously, alternately: do what I can to deny those portions of the game access to my game

 

[rhn]

I don't see why we can't have our cake and eat it too. I want to do everything you just said, but with balance measures implemented!

Heh yeah, its not that I wouldn't LOVE that the huge packs had perfect balance. But it is unreasonably to expect it to be possible to accomplish that. The more elements you have, the difficulty in balancing them out against each other quadruples or something like it. Its the same problem with MMOs, we want complex and rich talent trees and lots of different classes, but people get upset on the slightest imbalance between them in PvP. And with MC mods its even more difficult since the people trying to balance the mods with each other have absolutely no say in the evolution of the mods. Not to mention that they do all the work in their spare time for free!

So it is only natural to expect: The smaller the modpack, the higher the balance possible. The bigger the modpack, the harder balance is to achieve.

 

[Golrith]

Heh yeah, its not that I wouldn't LOVE that the huge packs had perfect balance. But it is unreasonably to expect it to be possible to accomplish that. The more elements you have, the difficulty in balancing them out against each other quadruples or something like it. Its the same problem with MMOs, we want complex and rich talent trees and lots of different classes, but people get upset on the slightest imbalance between them in PvP. And with MC mods its even more difficult since the people trying to balance the mods with each other have absolutely no say in the evolution of the mods. Not to mention that they do all the work in their spare time for free!

So it is only natural to expect: The smaller the modpack, the higher the balance possible. The bigger the modpack, the harder balance is to achieve.

Hmm, I can't image which MMO you are talking about, perhaps the one that I spent too many years playing and watching it get redesigned into a totally different game that doesn't require any thinking in character design, oh, plus annoying bears....

 

[Pyure]

since each mod added adds 1 + (# of total mods) interactions, the difficulty of balancing actually slopes more or less exponentially. Megasadface.

 

[rhn]

Hmm, I can't image which MMO you are talking about, perhaps the one that I spent too many years playing and watching it get redesigned into a totally different game that doesn't require any thinking in character design, oh, plus annoying bears....

All of them, but yeah that one too in particular!

since each mod added adds 1 + (# of total mods) interactions, the difficulty of balancing actually slopes more or less exponentially. Megasadface.

Yeah, as soon as I wrote "quadruples" I realised that was way way way underestimated. Every item of the new mod potentially have to be balanced against every other item in every other mod in the entire modpack, and the balance of items of one mod against another mod in the modpack might need to be re-evaluated... So, yeah... We could possibly have a perfectly balanced Monster in 20 years if we forego any mod/MC updates from this date forward and @Eyamaz worked nonstop on it. But I would prefer a slightly imbalanced Monster as a sandbox in the(hopefully ) near future instead.