why do so many people dislike monsterpack

[Pyure]

Agreed @zorn

Slight tangent for my curiousity: I also want to use rails to transport goods from a quarry. If the entire route to/from quarry isn't chunkloaded, I believe there's a cart module that chunkloads as it goes. Last I heard (last year) it wasn't reliable. Have things changed? Is this now a viable non-tesseract transportation means?

 

[PhilHibbs]

Applied Energistics vs a pipe sorting system. AE isnt really creative at all is it?

I used to think that, but there are a lot of cool things you can do with AE involving Level Emitters. At first, I used AE because it was the best option to deal with chest clutter. Then I came to enjoy doing interesting things with. I still have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it - partly because it so simply and effectively does a better job of storing and auto-crafting than any other mod, but not because it isn't creative.

 

[rhn]

I think those of us on the other side of the coin think of it this way: "I enjoy building things for a reason, building just for the sake of building isn't fun." (paraphrased from a guy on the ic2 forums). I like building a rail system knowing that it solved a problem I had to overcome, like "how do I get the stuff from my quarry back to my base?" If it solves a problem, then riding that rail out to my quarry area is fulfilling to me. If I just made a rail system for the fun of it, it's not fun for me.

IMO this is why some people want balance between mods. If you have tesseracts, there is no reason to build a rail line other than to look at the cool rail system. Which as im saying, i think its not enough for people like me. IMO most people use the most powerful options in general. You saw lots of people using squid biofuel setups for no reason other than it provided you a ton of power. How many people use Ic2 miners or steves carts drills vs a BC quarry? And now i see posts on multiple forums where people say BC can be retired because of the new Ender Quarry, which is definitely better. To me BC pipes are cool to look at, but if i post a screenshot somewhere, I ALWAYS get people saying 'why are you using those? use Conduits!' Conduits are the best choice. Applied Energistics vs a pipe sorting system. AE isnt really creative at all is it? A redpower sorting machine though with a bunch of pipes is cool as hell, but in 1.4.7 youd see 1 out of 10 people choose it over an AE system. probably even less.

If you look at most packs, people often use the best items from each mod. Railcraft boilers, factorization barrels, BC quarry, Thermal Expansion ore processing. Ultimately an AE system. Look at 10 threads where people posted their bases, and until recently with some of the new mods coming in, this was what you saw about every time. Just look at my sig, KirinDave knows it. People use a mod because its easy and efficient, few people do things just for giggles.

I am personally one of those people who build large rail lines leading out to scenic tours just for that one reason. Or I set up a rail line between two bases despite the fact that I have portals or other transport already set up. En enjoy the challenge of setting it up, I enjoy being able to sit back and enjoy the trip now and then.

And yes I am probably one of the people who will use one of the most efficient/least server resource hogging mining methods possible. Earlier that has been the quarry for me, but if that is the quarry+ or Ender Quarry now then I might switch over to that. I am not playing for the experience of making big holes in the ground. I am playing to make big buildings etc rise from the ground. But that doesnt mean that I wont build a Stevecarts miner, or a Thaumcraft arcane bore. Or play around with something else and try and combine them in some nuts way.

I am a great fan of AE. Not because it simplifies everything, but because I can realise much more complex things with it. And just because I have AE doesn't mean I stop using BC pipes. Quite the opposite, I combine the two. I am using AE together with lots of other automation mods like BC pipes and gates, Factorization Routers, Hoppers, Itemducts, Logistic pipes and many many more. But must admit when seeing someone using only BC pipes in a quite unimaginative way that we have seen now for many years, I am as much inspired as I am when I see people build with Vanilla style in modded MC.[DOUBLEPOST=1393514075][/DOUBLEPOST]

I used to think that, but there are a lot of cool things you can do with AE involving Level Emitters. At first, I used AE because it was the best option to deal with chest clutter. Then I came to enjoy doing interesting things with. I still have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it - partly because it so simply and effectively does a better job of storing and auto-crafting than any other mod, but not because it isn't creative.

Indeed. AE might simplify some lowlevel things. You dont need 15 blocks to do a simple auto supply loop device. But AE opens up for much much more advanced creations in the other end which would otherwise be nearly impossible with simpler means. Or it would be so lag inducing that it would tear the server apart and it would take up several chunks.

I used to like setting up these complex structures of a ton of pipes and redstone signals to do simple tasks. But that grows old after a while and it is really damn ugly to look at.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I used to like setting up these complex structures of a ton of pipes and redstone signals to do simple tasks. But that grows old after a while and it is really damn ugly to look at.

Oh, complex AE set-ups can look ugly as well! I set up a system to keep a set of items constantly in stock, so that I didn't have to wait for them to be autocrafted. Coal Dust, Diamonds, Overclockers, Electronic Circuits, ME Interfaces, Paper, Books, Book & Quills (for villager trading), Raw Plastic, Plastic Sheets, etc. It was a big tower of ME Interfaces, each one wth an Export Bus pointing at it, and each of those had two Level Emitters pointing at it: one to turn it off when there were enough of the crafted item, and one to turn it off when there were too few resources to make them. If I needed to check more than one resource, I'd set up the Level Emitters in a different area and point them at a rack of WR:CBE Wireless Transmitters. Once you've get over about a dozen of those, it gets pretty crowded.

 

[rhn]

Oh, complex AE set-ups can look ugly as well! I set up a system to keep a set of items constantly in stock, so that I didn't have to wait for them to be autocrafted. Coal Dust, Diamonds, Overclockers, Electronic Circuits, ME Interfaces, Paper, Books, Book & Quills (for villager trading), Raw Plastic, Plastic Sheets, etc. It was a big tower of ME Interfaces, each one wth an Export Bus pointing at it, and each of those had two Level Emitters pointing at it: one to turn it off when there were enough of the crafted item, and one to turn it off when there were too few resources to make them. If I needed to check more than one resource, I'd set up the Level Emitters in a different area and point them at a rack of WR:CBE Wireless Transmitters. Once you've get over about a dozen of those, it gets pretty crowded.

Ofc, but compare that to how it would look like if you build it all out of BC pipes and equivalent solutions...

Btw you only need one ME interface. You could(I think this works, done it directly with other pipes before) just have the ME export bus pointing at BC Iron pipes leading to the one ME interface. Saves a lot on power consumption and resources. And is a good example of using BC pipes together with AE.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Btw you only need one ME interface. You could(I think this works) just have the ME export bus pointing at BC Iron pipes leading to the one ME interface. Saves a lot on power consumption and resources. And is a good example of using BC pipes together with AE.

I didn't want any delay between the Export Bus crafting and the Level Emitter updating.

 

[rhn]

I didn't want any delay between the Export Bus crafting and the Level Emitter updating.

Ahh ok. That is understandable actually if it is items that you wouldn't want to suddenly have several stacks over the limit of. Could imagine a setup then with 4 Export bus per ME interface then(one on each side) that could then be stacked. Could be made into a neat column with a 3x3 footprint with ME interface, 4x exportbus and 4x level emitters per layer.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Ahh ok. That is understandable actually if it is items that you wouldn't want to suddenly have several stacks over the limit of. Could imagine a setup then with 4 Export bus per ME interface then(one on each side) that could then be stacked. Could be made into a neat column with a 3x3 footprint with ME interface, 4x exportbus and 4x level emitters per layer.

The problem is that each item crafted needs at least 2 Level Emitters. That's where it starts to get ugly.

 

[rhn]

The problem is that each item crafted needs at least 2 Level Emitters. That's where it starts to get ugly.

Ahh right. MFR Rednet cables using their 16 different channels, then having the piles of Level emitters somewhere else Would allow for stacks of 16 atleast with 4 cables as the corner pillars

 

[Taien]

I also am not a big fan of the pack, but only for the reason that the staple of modded MC (IC2) has been modified now and in my opinion slightly ruined. I personally believe whoever took over that project kinda wrecked what IC2 used to be. (Although the new block textures are nice.) All the old recipes were changed to take much more resources (thus making IC2 unrealistic compared to things that are easier) and there's NO GRAVISUIT?! WHAT?! I am NOT going to use a shitty rocketpack for 30 seconds of flying before I need a recharge.

Edit: Just checked and there's no rocket pack either. Is there no flying in this mod? Because that's just lame...that's the endgame to me, the ability to fly...

 

[Pyure]

@Taien , I think monster has modular powersuits, which has flying.

Realism vs difficulty makes no sense btw I think you meant "makes IC2 more difficult" or "less fun" compared to things that are easier

 

[Hoff]

-snip-

So I have nothing against the intent of your post as I agree with it in general which is why, imo, people shouldn't be looking for a already done pack but one that already suits a vast number of their wants and then customize to fit.

I do however take issue with the implications you seem to make toward the end of your post.

A redpower sorting machine though with a bunch of pipes is cool as hell, but in 1.4.7 youd see 1 out of 10 people choose it over an AE system. probably even less.

If you look at most packs, people often use the best items from each mod. Railcraft boilers, factorization barrels, BC quarry, Thermal Expansion ore processing. Ultimately an AE system. Look at 10 threads where people posted their bases, and until recently with some of the new mods coming in, this was what you saw about every time.

You're making the implication that all people that use those easier methods want methods that are harder but more 'impressive'. This is not true. I'd be willing to wager that the number of people that want balance for things to have reasons, i.e. your example of tessie vs railcraft item delivery, is roughly the same as those that build things for the sake of building them. There are those that use easy and efficient methods because they don't want to hassle with it in the first place so they can do something else. Much of the time the ones that build for the sake of building do such if they need something quickly or en masse for another build.

People also build what they know and can grasp easily. If a mod becomes a trend it only gains momentum until it becomes staple or dies. The first time I built an SC tree farm no one else on the server was using them and used MFR instead. After they saw mine going and I showed them how to set it up every single other person on the server switched to SC. Why? They liked the look of it and after being able to understand it, used it. The reason many mods that are staple or trending at the moment are exceedingly easy to grasp on a basic level. Because they are able to be easily understood and/or explained they become something people do regularly.

 

[rhn]

I also am not a big fan of the pack, but only for the reason that the staple of modded MC (IC2) has been modified now and in my opinion slightly ruined. I personally believe whoever took over that project kinda wrecked what IC2 used to be. (Although the new block textures are nice.) All the old recipes were changed to take much more resources (thus making IC2 unrealistic compared to things that are easier) and there's NO GRAVISUIT?! WHAT?! I am NOT going to use a shitty rocketpack for 30 seconds of flying before I need a recharge.

Edit: Just checked and there's no rocket pack either. Is there no flying in this mod? Because that's just lame...that's the endgame to me, the ability to fly...

1: IC2e has made a lot of items more expensive to make, but this has be done because these items have been moved up one tier. The MFE for example is no longer medium voltage, but fills the role of the MFSU now(HV). And the MFSU is now filling the role of the new EV tier. In between they added the new CESU(taking the place of the old MFE) which is quite cheap to make, so over all nothing has become more expensive. You just need to adjust your brain to the new tier structure. But most people are too lazy to do this and instead just spout things like "IC2e sucks, everything is too expensive, everything is too hard". Once we get exploding wires and machines back it will be a really good mod. Better than the old one IMO.

2: IC2e still have the Electric and the fueled jetpacks, nothing has changed there. And adding Gravisuite is as simple as downloading it, dropping the zip folder in the mods folder and running the game. That's all you need to do.

 

[Taien]

1: IC2e has made a lot of items more expensive to make, but this has be done because these items have been moved up one tier. The MFE for example is no longer medium voltage, but fills the role of the MFSU now(HV). And the MFSU is now filling the role of the new EV tier. In between they added the new CESU(taking the place of the old MFE) which is quite cheap to make, so over all nothing has become more expensive. You just need to adjust your brain to the new tier structure. But most people are too lazy to do this and instead just spout things like "IC2e sucks, everything is too expensive, everything is too hard". Once we get exploding wires and machines back it will be a really good mod. Better than the old one IMO.

2: IC2e still have the Electric and the fueled jetpacks, nothing has changed there. And adding Gravisuite is as simple as downloading it, dropping the zip folder in the mods folder and running the game. That's all you need to do.

I didn't know there was a new tier, and I'm a bit offended at your insinuation that I'm lazy for not knowing about it. It's not like IC2 has any kind of recipe guide in the game like some good mods like Tinker's Tools do in order to tell you what's different about the mod. I went from batbox to MFE because that's the way it has always been. It's not like there was a big sign anywhere saying "Hey, we added a new tier." That makes it make a bit more sense.

And it be honest, I had no idea GraviSuit wasn't a built-in part of IC2.

 

[rhn]

I didn't know there was a new tier, and I'm a bit offended at your insinuation that I'm lazy for not knowing about it. It's not like IC2 has any kind of recipe guide in the game like some good mods like Tinker's Tools do in order to tell you what's different about the mod. I went from batbox to MFE because that's the way it has always been. It's not like there was a big sign anywhere saying "Hey, we added a new tier." That makes it make a bit more sense.

And it be honest, I had no idea GraviSuit wasn't a built-in part of IC2.

Hmm yeah sorry about the lazy bit. Just personally a bit sad of seeing IC2e taking such a beating that it doesn't deserve IMO. It might appear at first glance that it is going total Gregtech and making everything totally expensive, but after I spend a little bit of time looking at IC2's own documentation I quickly found out that it wasn't the case.
http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
It is not great documentation, but it is there and decent enough for a mod that after all has "Experimental" in its name.

And yes the Advanced jetpack, Gravichest and Advanced Nano chest are part of the Gravisuite mod, as are many of the IC2 tool upgrades.

 

[James_Grimm]

Hmm yeah sorry about the lazy bit. Just personally a bit sad of seeing IC2e taking such a beating that it doesn't deserve IMO. It might appear at first glance that it is going total Gregtech and making everything totally expensive, but after I spend a little bit of time looking at IC2's own documentation I quickly found out that it wasn't the case.
http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
It is not great documentation, but it is there and decent enough for a mod that after all has "Experimental" in its name.

And yes the Advanced jetpack, Gravichest and Advanced Nano chest are part of the Gravisuite mod, as are many of the IC2 tool upgrades.

I will just note, but that site has zero information about the CESU and all the other stuff you just talked about being added, because it's for IC2 -not-experimental, it predates it by quite a bit. I think Taien has a fair criticism about IC2 in general, pretty much all the documentation for that mod is hard to find in the first place, very old, and increasingly incorrect because they've changed so many things. For mod as deliberately complex as IC2, that seems a major problem to me. Then again some of their fans on their forums are rabidly against any for of documentation or just about anything that might help make the mod easier for newbies. I remember one poster saying that he felt it would "cheapen" the experience if people weren't forced to randomly try different patterns in a crafting table until they figured it all out by trial and error. Ugh. I doubt the modders themselves hold that view (I hope), but I think even most IC2 fans would have to admit the mod is complex and hard to understand for someone not already familiar with it. I don't understand why that's not seen as something worth changing.

Separate from that topic, and back to the OP, No I don't think "so many" people hate Monster. Last I heard it was the most popular of the 1.6.4 packs. Likely because it has the largest modlist. I suspect that it just has some of the loudest critics (which is not to say all of the criticism is unfair, I do agree that the "all the mods!" style approach leaves the pack feeling ... unconnected compared to something carefully tweaked like Magic Farm2). There are plenty of people who simply want a chance to play with all the available options, and for that view the Monster pack does seem to be the best fit. Others want a tightly cohesive play experience where it feels like everything is made to work together (MF2), others want to try new things they have never played with before (Horizons), and then you have the ever popular "but I only like Tech/Magic mods in my minecraft" crowd that wants a Tech/Magic World.

Options are a good thing.

 

[rhn]

I will just note, but that site has zero information about the CESU and all the other stuff you just talked about being added, because it's for IC2 -not-experimental, it predates it by quite a bit.

http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Recipes_and_Resources#EU_Storage
Second on the list of EU storages: CES unit.
It is not perfect no, it is a WIP just like the mod is.

But I must admit that their documentation seems a hell of a lot better than what you get with for example Thermal expansion 3, which people praises to great extent:
http://teamcofh.com/

 

[Jadedcat]

http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Recipes_and_Resources#EU_Storage
Second on the list of EU storages: CES unit.
It is not perfect no, it is a WIP just like the mod is.

But I must admit that their documentation seems a hell of a lot better than what you get with for example Thermal expansion 3, which people praises to great extent:
http://teamcofh.com/

Except TE3 has all the info directly on their blocks in the game either through shifting while mousing over or on the machine tabs... kinda redundant to have a wiki at all with that much in game info.

 

[rhn]

Except TE3 has all the info directly on their blocks in the game either through shifting while mousing over or on the machine tabs... kinda redundant to have a wiki at all with that much in game info.

I agree that TE3 has a good deal of info ingame on tooltips etc(but so does IC2e now). But it would be going a bit far as to saying it has all the information. Many stuff I had to guess my way to or had to know from the older versions. If you were a newcomer you would have a real hard time getting started on TE3 I think.

For example take the Reactant dynamo. I had been curious about that for a while, but all the tooltip says is: "Requires fluid fuel and solid reactant". That doesn't really help me a whole lot. What kind of fuel and what kind of reactant? So I go to the TE3 site to have a look:
http://teamcofh.com/index.php?page=dynamos
Hmm the Reactant Dynamo doesn't even exist on their page.

Or lets take Fluiducts. Shift information tells us: "Rate varies depending on fluid"
Right, full details must be on the website then:
http://teamcofh.com/index.php?page=fluiducts
Guess not...

So this lack of documentation is definitely not restricted to IC2e alone. But I find it odd how IC2e is taking such a beating for it, while TE3 is being gods praised like it was the best thing ever.

 

[Jadedcat]

I agree that TE3 has a good deal of info ingame on tooltips etc(but so does IC2e now). But it would be going a bit far as to saying it has all the information. Many stuff I had to guess my way to or had to know from the older versions. If you were a newcomer you would have a real hard time getting started on TE3 I think.

For example take the Reactant dynamo. I had been curious about that for a while, but all the tooltip says is: "Requires fluid fuel and solid reactant". That doesn't really help me a whole lot. What kind of fuel and what kind of reactant? So I go to the TE3 site to have a look:
http://teamcofh.com/index.php?page=dynamos
Hmm the Reactant Dynamo doesn't even exist on their page.

So this lack of documentation is definitely not restricted to IC2e alone. But I find it odd how IC2e is taking such a beating for it, while TE3 is being gods praised like it was the best thing ever.

Because there is very little lacking on TE3 in game, the other 3 dynamos are pretty obvious, none of the "missing" info prevents you from progressing through the mod. A lot of the missing info on IC2 is needed to progress through the mod.