why do so many people dislike monsterpack

  • Please make sure you are posting in the correct place. Server ads go here and modpack bugs go here
  • The FTB Forum is now read-only, and is here as an archive. To participate in our community discussions, please join our Discord! https://ftb.team/discord

rhn

Too Much Free Time
Nov 11, 2013
5,706
4,420
333
Because there is very little lacking on TE3 in game, the other 3 dynamos are pretty obvious, none of the "missing" info prevents you from progressing through the mod. A lot of the missing info on IC2 is needed to progress through the mod.
By that logic you could find all the info for IC2e in the game as well couldn't you? After all I wouldn't have been able to figure out the new TE3 before I did a @Thermalexpansion in NEI(and because I knew all the mechanics of the stuff from TE2). The information that Taien needed could just as easily have been found doing a @industrialcraft, since the MFE now has a tooltip saying: 512EU/t output and a bit further over is the CESU with the tooltip saying 128EU/t.

It seems like TE3 can change all they like without documenting it all that well, but IC2 have to shove it in the face of the user without the user actually putting any effort into looking for the information. I didn't know anything about what had changed with IC2 before I booted up monster, and tried to craft something, but it took me 5 mins to look it up on the internet/NEI and figure out what had changed.

I really like both mods, but it is a really unfair and biased if you compare how the 2 mods have been judged I think.
 

trajing

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,091
-14
1
By that logic you could find all the info for IC2e in the game as well couldn't you? After all I wouldn't have been able to figure out the new TE3 before I did a @Thermalexpansion in NEI(and because I knew all the mechanics of the stuff from TE2). The information that Taien needed could just as easily have been found doing a @industrialcraft, since the MFE now has a tooltip saying: 512EU/t output and a bit further over is the CESU with the tooltip saying 128EU/t.

It seems like TE3 can change all they like without documenting it all that well, but IC2 have to shove it in the face of the user without the user actually putting any effort into looking for the information. I didn't know anything about what had changed with IC2 before I booted up monster, and tried to craft something, but it took me 5 mins to look it up on the internet/NEI and figure out what had changed.

I really like both mods, but it is a really unfair and biased if you compare how the 2 mods have been judged I think.
I understand that TE is somewhat lacking in-game, but the people can look on other wikis. The unofficial FTB wiki has info on the dynamo rates. Fluiducts? They transfer fluid. If you really want fast, use ME P2P, which brings me to this:
Monster is disliked by some because there are many ways of accomplishing the same thing. Use fluiducts? NOPE, P2P. Same thing with LP and AE, IC2 and TE, etc. The list goes on and on.
 

Zenthon_127

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
837
0
0
TE3 is faaaar more intuitive than IC2e. I learned everything in TE3 (granted I had prior knowledge from TE2) on my own using the R button, Reactant Dynamo aside. Never looked at any sort of guide, video or anything. I also know people that started modded MC in 1.6 and look way longer to learn IC2e than TE3.

Example of IC2's issues with being hard to learn: the new Nuke GUI, anything related to Reactors, the power system in general (big one right there), the Eject Upgrade, etc.


Btw, not many people know about @[modname] outside of forums like these. You'de be pretty surprised.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MoosyDoosy

rhn

Too Much Free Time
Nov 11, 2013
5,706
4,420
333
TE3 is faaaar more intuitive than IC2e. I learned everything in TE3 (granted I had prior knowledge from TE2) on my own using the R button, Reactant Dynamo aside. Never looked at any sort of guide, video or anything. I also know people that started modded MC in 1.6 and look way longer to learn IC2e than TE3.

Example of IC2's issues with being hard to learn: the new Nuke GUI, anything related to Reactors, the power system in general (big one right there), the Eject Upgrade, etc.


Btw, not many people know about @[modname] outside of forums like these. You'de be pretty surprised.
I totally agree with you that TE3 is much much simpler than IC2e. Almost to a point where I think TE3 might have been "dumbed" down a bit too far(that sounds too harsh, but cant think of another way of phrasing it right now. Non english birth language :/ so don't flame me for it, I didnt mean it like that). I like some complexity in mods.

But it is a sad day if mods are downrated and frowned upon if they simply stay on the same complexity level and try and improve their content instead of making everything super easy and OP like so many other mods we see these days(I don't mean TE by this, but we do see mods with what.. x6 ore returns etc and stuff like that).
 

PhilHibbs

Forum Addict
Trusted User
Jan 15, 2013
3,174
1,128
183
Birmingham, United Kingdom
http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Recipes_and_Resources#EU_Storage
Second on the list of EU storages: CES unit.
It is not perfect no, it is a WIP just like the mod is.

But I must admit that their documentation seems a hell of a lot better than what you get with for example Thermal expansion 3, which people praises to great extent:
http://teamcofh.com/
The presence or absence of documentation for various mods really has nothing to do with mod packs. If a mod is fantastic, put it in the pack. If it has very little documentation, that is in no way the fault or the responsibility of the people that made the mod pack, and is not a legitimate criticism of that pack.
 

rhn

Too Much Free Time
Nov 11, 2013
5,706
4,420
333
The presence or absence of documentation for various mods really has nothing to do with mod packs. If a mod is fantastic, put it in the pack. If it has very little documentation, that is in no way the fault or the responsibility of the people that made the mod pack, and is not a legitimate criticism of that pack.
Yeah the debate went a bit OT with the whole TE debate. Just mentioned it as an example to start with to compare with IC2 documentation. And I am actually trying to defend Monster here :p But if you go back it did originate from one person who stated that he didn't like Monster because of the changes to IC2, and that was what I was replying to:
I also am not a big fan of the pack, but only for the reason that the staple of modded MC (IC2) has been modified now and in my opinion slightly ruined. I personally believe whoever took over that project kinda wrecked what IC2 used to be. (Although the new block textures are nice.) All the old recipes were changed to take much more resources (thus making IC2 unrealistic compared to things that are easier) and there's NO GRAVISUIT?! WHAT?! I am NOT going to use a shitty rocketpack for 30 seconds of flying before I need a recharge. :(

Edit: Just checked and there's no rocket pack either. Is there no flying in this mod? Because that's just lame...that's the endgame to me, the ability to fly...

But yes I totally agree with you PhillHibbs, which is what I tried to convey to in the post that started this whole thing :p
 
Last edited:

Enigmius1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
499
0
0
Except TE3 has all the info directly on their blocks in the game either through shifting while mousing over or on the machine tabs... kinda redundant to have a wiki at all with that much in game info.

I have to disagree. TE's context sensitive machine tabs and expanded tooltips are good, but they're a far cry from providing enough information to make use of everything. I had to google my way to the TE3 home site to find out that the tesseract in TE3 is applicable to all materials. WAILA gives me the name of a mod I'm not familiar with when I mouse over something so I go to the wiki to find out more about it to find there's either no page at all for the mod, or there's a page with a one line description of the mod and often not even a link back to the mod's Minecraft forum page. After a while a person gets tired of googling for basic information. It's not so much that there's so much information in the game that there's almost no point in having a wiki as it is there's so little information in the wiki there's almost no point in directing people to it. So much arbitrary bloat every 4 months that nobody can keep up except the people assembling the packs. The mod devs can't, the texture teams can't, the wiki team can't. So why are we still rushing to jam out new packs every time Mojang adds a new plant to a major version update?
 

kaovalin

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
782
0
0
I have to disagree. TE's context sensitive machine tabs and expanded tooltips are good, but they're a far cry from providing enough information to make use of everything. I had to google my way to the TE3 home site to find out that the tesseract in TE3 is applicable to all materials. WAILA gives me the name of a mod I'm not familiar with when I mouse over something so I go to the wiki to find out more about it to find there's either no page at all for the mod, or there's a page with a one line description of the mod and often not even a link back to the mod's Minecraft forum page. After a while a person gets tired of googling for basic information. It's not so much that there's so much information in the game that there's almost no point in having a wiki as it is there's so little information in the wiki there's almost no point in directing people to it. So much arbitrary bloat every 4 months that nobody can keep up except the people assembling the packs. The mod devs can't, the texture teams can't, the wiki team can't. So why are we still rushing to jam out new packs every time Mojang adds a new plant to a major version update?

Because fun?
 

Zenthon_127

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
837
0
0
So why are we still rushing to jam out new packs every time Mojang adds a new plant to a major version update?
FTB updates at snail speed between versions compared to most major pack makers. You, sir, are horribly misinformed here.

Even modpacks with little bloat aren't getting good texture packs not because of pack updating speed but because frankly the texture artists are working slower now.
 

Enigmius1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
499
0
0
FTB updates at snail speed between versions compared to most major pack makers. You, sir, are horribly misinformed here.

I'm not misinformed. It doesn't matter how fast the FTB team releases mod packs relative to the major updates to MC. I'm talking about drive to produce a new mod pack iteration for every major MC update at all. That starts at the mod dev level all the way through to the support level on the other side. Be careful how quick you are to split hairs.
 

Zenthon_127

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
837
0
0
I'm not misinformed. It doesn't matter how fast the FTB team releases mod packs relative to the major updates to MC. I'm talking about drive to produce a new mod pack iteration for every major MC update at all. That starts at the mod dev level all the way through to the support level on the other side. Be careful how quick you are to split hairs.
Mod devs and more importantly Forge stop updating for old versions, and it only takes a few major devs to move the whole crowd over.

Only reason documentation/textures/etc. is so terribad in 1.6 is because half the mods have undergone reworks. Unless we have a similar level of change in 1.7 I don't see the same issues happening again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kaovalin

Enigmius1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
499
0
0
Mod devs and more importantly Forge stop updating for old versions, and it only takes a few major devs to move the whole crowd over.

Only reason documentation/textures/etc. is so terribad in 1.6 is because half the mods have undergone reworks. Unless we have a similar level of change in 1.7 I don't see the same issues happening again.

It doesn't matter. This isn't a situation that's made better by throwing explanations and history at it. The overall quality of the experience with the Monster pack is awful. Period. I'm not interested in rationalizations and excuses.
 

Zenthon_127

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
837
0
0
It doesn't matter. This isn't a situation that's made better by throwing explanations and history at it. The overall quality of the experience with the Monster pack is awful. Period. I'm not interested in rationalizations and excuses.
I wouldn't say awful, but IMO it's definitely the worst of FTB's flagship packs (if you even want to consider it a flagship pack) and that has about nothing to do with the version jump. The flagship packs always provided the complete experience of their respective version and Monster failed.

We did get MF2 this gen which is probably the best "hardcore" pack of all time, so there is that though. 1.6 Direwolf and Horizens ain't bad either.
 

Jadedcat

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2,615
4
0
This thread really needs to get back on topic. Please start a different thread for the "Should mods have better in game documentation" question. Its an interesting topic but no one is going to find it in a thread about Monster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PierceSG

mam89

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2
0
0
Personally I think Monster is great at what it is: a massive pack of very cool mods that allows the player to do what ever they want to do (or pretty much there about) with modded MC without 99% of the fuss of making your own pack.

I played the 1.4 mods and stopped playing when the 1.5's started coming out as they seemed to be just a reiteration of the earlier versions. But when Monster came out I finally managed to wrangle my friends into playing a private server with me and we've been enjoying Monster since 1.0.3 like FTB is a completely new game again. Everyone can do whatever they want, I've enabled "All The Things" and I haven't heard any gripes yet (except the moans from the inevitable reset when it goes stable).

Honestly I think Monster is only getting a bad wrap because it's in a transition area in minecraft in general. Minecraft is more popular, better managed, and just a much bigger beast than it ever was in the past. It's got more mods than you can shake a stick at now, not just the core mods of IC2 and Redpower of days gone by. It's got more frequent updates as these mods/packs that were once done on an individual level are now starting to turn (by necessity) into team efforts. It's just turned into a beast of a genre game. All this and trying to package it all into a nice little (okay it's big) ball of cozy modpack puts lots of strain on everything, those creaters of the mods and packs, server admins, and even players. It's almost too exorbitant. Monster is just what it's name implies!

However, as a flagship pack, I also have to say it's great for all the same reasons! It gives everyone the options to do what they want out of the box. Think something's overpowered for a public server? Turn it off, simple. Don't like that it doesn't come with your favorite mod from that other pack? No problemo, add it in with the universal config, again simple. Don't like your neighbor gloating over how he has stacks and stacks of diamonds from a quarry in his ME storage? Make a nuke and detonate his base... probably only on my server, but still simple!

The only reason I really see it being a bit lacking (I've talked it over with my friends whether to switch to DW20 or Horizons a couple times) is that there are the fore-mentioned packs that are also laid out as if they were flagship packs. They both have strikingly similar core mods and loads (I mean loads) of gameplay enhancing mods. I know Horizons was supposed to be the "Lookie what this mod does" pack but come on, it's a full blown pack compared to all the other adventure/survival packs listed. The same is true with DW20's 1.6 pack, it might as well be Monster with a half dozen mod swaps and config tweaks. They're WAY similar, and that almost definitely takes away some of Monsters roar so to speak.

I really think that with the versatility you guys/gals have put into the universal config that it's almost a shame that the three most similar and probably, in my opinion, best packs for general gameplay are feeding on each other's fanbases instead of just being combined or culled down to be separate like they were intended. Horizons shouldn't have most/any of the core mods that it shares with Monster/DW20 for obvious reasons; it's a demo pack. And DW20 should in respect to Dire and his crew be just a reconfigured Monster. Monster should be the penultimate pack with every mod under the sun (within reason), ready for the server admin to cull it down to what they want or run it full out without an issue. That's what a flagship is in my book.

Overall, you're all doing freaking awesome, and I am immensely enjoying the experience :D

And I've been lurking for ever and this made me post, shame on you guys!
 
  • Like
Reactions: PierceSG

Jadedcat

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2,615
4
0
The only reason I really see it being a bit lacking (I've talked it over with my friends whether to switch to DW20 or Horizons a couple times) is that there are the fore-mentioned packs that are also laid out as if they were flagship packs. They both have strikingly similar core mods and loads (I mean loads) of gameplay enhancing mods. I know Horizons was supposed to be the "Lookie what this mod does" pack but come on, it's a full blown pack compared to all the other adventure/survival packs listed. The same is true with DW20's 1.6 pack, it might as well be Monster with a half dozen mod swaps and config tweaks. They're WAY similar, and that almost definitely takes away some of Monsters roar so to speak.

I really think that with the versatility you guys/gals have put into the universal config that it's almost a shame that the three most similar and probably, in my opinion, best packs for general gameplay are feeding on each other's fanbases instead of just being combined or culled down to be separate like they were intended. Horizons shouldn't have most/any of the core mods that it shares with Monster/DW20 for obvious reasons; it's a demo pack. And DW20 should in respect to Dire and his crew be just a reconfigured Monster. Monster should be the penultimate pack with every mod under the sun (within reason), ready for the server admin to cull it down to what they want or run it full out without an issue. That's what a flagship is in my book.

Overall, you're all doing freaking awesome, and I am immensely enjoying the experience :D

And I've been lurking for ever and this made me post, shame on you guys!


DW20 is concieved and chosen based on what DW wants to play. We have no control over the mods in it.

Horizons was conceived long before Monster and it would be the flagship pack if there wasn't a map pack for 1.6. The map pack is always the flagship pack.

Monster was created by Slowpoke after Eyamaz and I had created Horizons, MF2, and Lite2 and is based on what he wants to use for goals on the map.

Tech 2 and Magic World 2 are just the tech mods and Magic mods from the other packs.

Personally as a player and a modpack dev I don't see the point of the last 2 modpacks. I would rather we got rid of them and added a RPG pack and maybe an adventure pack. But Tech 2 and Magic 2 take a lot of time updating and bug fixing and we don't have the time to create 2 other completely different packs. Its a bit of a difference. I and Eyamaz tend to prefer the path of making smaller and more unique packs that can be combined through the universal configs into more massive packs. Slow prefers we make packs based around the map and then split the pack into Magic vs Tech.

So basically the division you see in the packs is simple:

DW20 and eventually Mindcrack - We don't pick the mods. Though I did give suggestions to the Mindcrack team for a couple extra mods. We are not going to leave mods out of our packs just because the youtubers want to use them too.

Monster: Designed by Slowpoke for use in the map. Tech 2 and Magic World 2 based off the tech and magic mods Slow used in Monster with a few additions from the other packs.

Horizons, MF2, Lite 2 and Blood n Bones : Designed by me and Eyamaz for different "themes". Balanced, adventure, lightweight and showcase new mods.

Here's the thing people don't always get about the FTB map pack. The balance and challenge of the FTB Map is not in the mods its in the map. Its in certain things only being available for tech tree purposes by completing specific goals. The map pack is seldom ever a great modpack for playing as is because the map that provides the theme of the pack is missing. In previous MC versions that wasn't as noticeable because the trend was to put all the mods in one pack no matter who was making it. However starting with Ultimate the trend started shifting to themed smaller packs where the mods provided the progression without a map. In 1.5 Magic Farm came out and people started making more and more themed packs where the mods changed the game and/or created goals or a story and all the mods were linked together with configs and tweaks to make a "game pack" as opposed to a mod pack. A lot of players have not adjusted to the idea that the flagship map pack has never been based around that style of play. There are also quite a few more mods now which makes for challenges in creating packs that aren't filled with redundancy. Basically people's view of what a modpack should be has changed and they don't understand the the FTB map pack has never and probably never will match the new style of themed packs. You no longer need a specific map to provide the challenges and balance with the other packs. Once the map is out y'all will love playing Monster with the map. Well assuming you liked the map in the first place :p