What would YOU change about BuildCraft?

[cielum]

For all of those wanting a multiblock refinery, there is one in buildcraft additions.

 

[TheLoneWolfling]

Pipes should take their cue from Graphics: Fancy / Fast, and render opaque, with no items, when set to fast. Assuming that that actually is a performance bottleneck.
Getting players on high spec pcs to "opt in" to performance enhancements doesn't help low specced players on a server.

That's... actually a great idea.

 

[KingTriaxx]

It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't have the BC look. Plus it's completely lacking in wavy arms. And it's impossible to refine fuel without those.

More seriously though, it's two multi-blocks, and they lack the visual charm of BC. Not only that, but BC is fantastic on laggier machines like mine, because I don't necessarily need to open a gui, which involves a right click and then something to do for the five minutes it takes to decide if it's going to open. I can just look at it and see if it's working or not. Those Multi-blocks want me to get into a gui, which is the opposite of BC's design.

 

[Kerazi]

1) I have a specific example of a general concern: Gate conditionals being flexible enough to do what I want.

For example, I'm not sure this is a BuildCraft API limitation or a Railcraft issue, but I'd like to see a Gate detect when a Hobbyist Steam Engine is at full heat and able separate which tank is being queried (Steam vs Water). The engine colors are no help and the Cold, Warm, Hot doesn't track with the temperature of the engine. I'd expect it to be Cold at 0, Warm > 0 and < 500 and Hot at 500. Perhaps just a Railcraft bug?

2) Also a very expensive Basic Gate/Red Pipe Wire crafting table recipe would be nice as well. A Gate could be a Block of Redstone, 2 - 4 Gold Nuggets, 4-6 Red Pipe Wires. 8 Red Pipe Wires would be 3 Redstone Dust and 6 Rose Red. Since no upgrades, still need Redstone Engines for extracting items and liquids early on.

 

[asiekierka]

1. I would get rid of robots. For me, they don't fit with the rest of BC.
2. Ditto with the tossed blocks with fillers/etc. (Or at the very least I would make it so that if you remove the filler after it's stopped tossing blocks it doesn't lose the blocks in the air).
3. Ditto with RP-style colors in pipes.
4. I would revert the autocrafting table to something akin to a cross between EasyCrafting's autocrafting table and LP's autocrafting table. Or perhaps add it as a mid-tier autocrafter.
5. I would revert the filler to dropping blocks from the bottom up, and change it so that it removed the first items after dropping N (for a reasonably large value of N), instead of just having a short item delay.
6. I would add opaque pipes that are as cheap as the transparent ones, mainly so that later on I could (try to) do some performance improvements with them. (My LP-based autocrafting setup currently uses ~1/2 of the total TE update time, and that's when idle).
7. I'd make it so the pump can run on redstone engines again.
8. I'd add an alternative recipe for autarchic gates that uses a redstone engine instead of ender pearls. More expensive, but easier to get before you've reached the end, and less RNG-heavy.
9. And I'd try to remove facades and implement FMP support, but that's a bit of a pipe dream, unfortunately.

10. But I know that most of these won't be done. BC has diverged from my ideals. I liked BC working standalone, but that's not the direction BC has gone. (I'm still bummed about ChemDork's BC LP).

1. BuildCraft changes, like most mods do - people should get used to it more. The reason SpaceToad added robots is because BuildCraft has primarily been both an automation and building mod - and robots are a fantastic more end-gamey way to utilize the gate system to provide more powerful automation mechanics that work on things such as farms.
2. We are looking into some config options for that, but the animation is rooted deep in the code.
3. Not removing those.
4. A mid-tier autocrafter is, in fact, being considered.
5. The filler stopped dropping blocks due to balance reasons back in 1.5 or so - we are still pondering on this.
6. No. At this point, in BC 7, BC non-opaque pipes use about as much TPS as TD opaque pipes - and LP does a lot of complex calculations so don't expect it to be super efficient.
7. Already done in 6.2.2 - where have you been?
8. That's a good idea! I'll look into it.
9. Amadornes has been working on an addon to add FMP support to pipes...
10. What /are/ your ideals? BC is going in the standalone direction more than it has been in 1.5, with the development team working on three mods at the same time - chilm76 has been running an LP for over a year with just BuildCraft and a mod called BuildCraft Additions which adds ore processing and (lossy) energy storage. Where have you been?

I have 3 problems with Buildcraft.

1. Limited troughput of pipes. They are great starter pipes and great "limiter" pipes. It has its niche role and it does it well. That said, some bigger trougput pipes would be very welcome.
2. Cost. It starts out cheap with wood/stone. Fits realy good with the early game feel that is Buildcraft. Gates are to expensive for early game and quite a hassle to get. I think it would be great if BC got a cheap and simple way to make a basic gate in the early game. And then we get a quarry. A quarry is just way to cheap for the "power" (resource income) it provides. I mean, people rarely even use mining wells. And a fully automated solution shoudnt be cheaper then an enginering challange like a frame based mining platform (or robots). Infact, mining is one of the few challanges minecraft actually offers, a quarry just absoletes mining to fast without enough challange. I also think the quarry should be reworked to a more endgame (multiblock) structure. Its just to powerfull/cheap in its current form. A config option for a more expensive recipy would be great to.
3. Needs more building oriented things. I think it would be great of Buildcraft got some building orientated tools. Like ExU's builder wand, a TiC excevator/hammer that doesnt work on ores and a block swapper like Thaumcrafts wand of equal trade (A machine version of this would also be great!). I would love to be able to just get Buildcraft and have all my building tools. Another thing that would be amazing is "new" type of builder. With a pattern that can only store a few block types and has a UI where each block can be replaced with a different block when rebuilding something. So that I could make a copy of a house and have it make the walls out of a different material, or a different decorative tint block, or a different floor etc.

1. This is a "power creep" issue and we're not fixing what is different in terms of design between us and other mods.
2. The quarry has to be cheap - if the quarry was an end-game item, you wouldn't need it as you would already have all the ores you need, so why make a quarry? A config option might be nice, though. And cheaper basic gates is something I want to make as well.
3. We're all thinking about this,

That's... actually a great idea.

But BC pipes are less laggy than you think.

 

[Yusunoha]

I like robots, heck, I'd even like a robot that would follow me around that could serve as a portable chest or a turret that'll attack nearby mobs.

 

[epidemia78]

The most useful BC machines (the filler, quarry, builder) always cause me so much lag, Ive stopped using them. And they dont work at all in galacticraft dimensions. I always appreciated the fact that BC engines are animated but they dont output enough power to be a viable alternative to the other methods of power gen and they need upgrades. The textures are still just as bland as ever. The pipe textures are especially bad, which really sucks because they are one of the few ways to visibly pipe things to and fro but nobody wants to look at them. These are the things I would like to see change in Buildcraft.

 

[asiekierka]

The most useful BC machines (the filler, quarry, builder) always cause me so much lag, Ive stopped using them. And they dont work at all in galacticraft dimensions. I always appreciated the fact that BC engines are animated but they dont output enough power to be a viable alternative to the other methods of power gen and they need upgrades. The textures are still just as bland as ever. The pipe textures are especially bad, which really sucks because they are one of the few ways to visibly pipe things to and fro but nobody wants to look at them. These are the things I would like to see change in Buildcraft.

The filler and builder lag issues are going to be fixed in 6.4.5 - we have a working fix. About Galacticraft dimensions, wasn't that fixed in 6.1.7? Engines work fine if you play with BC in mind. Textures are working on being changed, EXCEPT the pipes - we've gone through at least 3 alternative ideas and they all look either worse or more opaque.

 

[TheLoneWolfling]

1. BuildCraft changes, like most mods do - people should get used to it more.

I don't like this answer. I do not see why change is inherently a good thing. I suppose part of it is that I seem to be on the longer side in terms of how long I keep worlds around. (In particular I do not like things that break existing worlds, although robots do not fall into that category.)

Or, to put it another way. I am used to mods changing. I do not see why it is good that mods change in the ways they do.

The reason SpaceToad added robots is because BuildCraft has primarily been both an automation and building mod - and robots are a fantastic more end-gamey way to utilize the gate system to provide more powerful automation mechanics that work on things such as farms.

I am not complaining about the reasoning. I am, however, saying, that, to me, robots are not something that is welcome as a part of BC. As a separate addon for BC? Sure. But as part of core BC... Not my cup of tea. Especially given they aren't even a separate module. (I mean... They are even in a separate source code folder.)

2. We are looking into some config options for that, but the animation is rooted deep in the code.

Elaborate? They weren't animated originally. So why is the animation "rooted deep in the code"?

3. Not removing those.

As I said, these are what I would change, and BC has diverged from my ideals. This is one of these cases.

4. A mid-tier autocrafter is, in fact, being considered.

Good to know. Now to see if it will actually be useful, or if it will be for me as much of a trainwreck as the advanced crafting table was.

5. The filler stopped dropping blocks due to balance reasons back in 1.5 or so - we are still pondering on this.

Please ponder. As is, the filler has the dubious honor of being simultaneously useless for much of its intended purpose and yet still being able to be used for pretty much exactly what it was nerfed to prevent.

6. No. At this point, in BC 7, BC non-opaque pipes use about as much TPS as TD opaque pipes - and LP does a lot of complex calculations so don't expect it to be super efficient.

Unfortunately, it's not LP's side that's most of the tick time for me - it's the base BC piping.

7. Already done in 6.2.2 - where have you been?

Mainly staying away from BC as I got driven away by the update that tooketh away and was too frustrated to do much of anything with BC since. Was mostly playing a world with only CC. It was fun, and hasn't had any of the changes that broke existing worlds as badly as BC has.

8. That's a good idea! I'll look into it.

Yay. That would alleviate one of my major frustrations with Autarchic gates.

9. Amadornes has been working on an addon to add FMP support to pipes...

Can you link me to it?

BC is going in the standalone direction more than it has been in 1.5, with the development team working on three mods at the same time - chilm76 has been running an LP for over a year with just BuildCraft and a mod called BuildCraft Additions which adds ore processing and (lossy) energy storage. Where have you been?

See that and? That's part of what I don't like. Ore processing is doable without addons (although you won't get ore doubling. Boo hoo.), and energy storage isn't something that I feels fits with BC. Call me crazy if you like.

Yes, BC is getting better. But, to me at least, it's still not where it was.

Also, see above.

10. What /are/ your ideals?

My ideals. Hard to put simply without oversimplifying. But in general:

1. Don't break things.
   
2. Things should be configurable, but with defaults that are sane for the mod being standalone (or as standalone as possible, in the case of a mod that requires another).
3. Change for the sake of change is the worst of all worlds.
4. Tedium is not the same as balance. (I'm looking at you, laser.)
   
5. Things should have complex behavior with simple mechanics. (Did you mean: CC?)
   
6. If you are considering adding something that strictly obsoletes something else in ease of use, ignoring the cost of getting it and renewable running costs, don't add it. See #4. (Yes, this includes autarchic gates and advanced crafting tables.)

 

[KingTriaxx]

Ultimate had an End-game quarry. If you like manually digging out enough materials to process titanium to make a diamond drill to build a quarry, that's the pack for you.

 

[Wekmor]

See that and? That's part of what I don't like. Ore processing is doable without addons (although you won't get ore doubling. Boo hoo.), and energy storage isn't something that I feels fits with BC. Call me crazy if you like.

Just so I can understand what you are saying:
First you say, you don't think robots fit into BC, and rather have those as an addon.
Then you say ore doubling, etc. shouldn't exist in an addon (or at all) because you don't think it fits BC?

 

[asiekierka]

I don't like this answer.

SpaceToad added the feature before I took over BC, and I love the robots a lot. What's wrong with it?

I am not complaining about the reasoning. I am, however, saying, that, to me, robots are not something that is welcome as a part of BC. As a separate addon for BC? Sure. But as part of core BC... Not my cup of tea. Especially given they aren't even a separate module. (I mean... They are even in a separate source code folder.)

They actually weren't until I cleaned it up over the period of a few weeks.

Elaborate? They weren't animated originally. So why is the animation "rooted deep in the code"?

SpaceToad hardcoded the animation alongside the filler/builder rewrite.

Unfortunately, it's not LP's side that's most of the tick time for me - it's the base BC piping.

What? That's a bug, most likely.

Mainly staying away from BC as I got driven away by the update that tooketh away and was too frustrated to do much of anything with BC since. Was mostly playing a world with only CC. It was fun, and hasn't had any of the changes that broke existing worlds as badly as BC has.

The pump thing was very temporary and only done because of the RF rewrite and us thinking on how to handle the fact redstone engines cannot emit fractions of an RF.

Can you link me to it?

Not released.

See that and? That's part of what I don't like. Ore processing is doable without addons (although you won't get ore doubling. Boo hoo.), and energy storage isn't something that I feels fits with BC. Call me crazy if you like.

People like content. What can I do about it?

Yes, BC is getting better. But, to me at least, it's still not where it was.

Where it /was/? It was much worse off than it is now, that's for sure.

Don't break things.

Sometimes, breaking things is justified - but never break things without a long warning.

Things should be configurable, but with defaults that are sane for the mod being standalone (or as standalone as possible, in the case of a mod that requires another).

Working on it.

• Change for the sake of change is the worst of all worlds.

We never do that.

Things should have complex behavior with simple mechanics. (Did you mean: CC?)

I actually consider CC a highly overpowered mod, which, from a programmer's point of view, balanced for little more than education.

If you are considering adding something that strictly obsoletes something else in ease of use, ignoring the cost of getting it and renewable running costs, don't add it. See #4. (Yes, this includes autarchic gates and advanced crafting tables.)

Neither obsoleted anything.

 

[VapourDrive]

I am really looking forward to what you have in store for the BC addons and modularization of the mod itself. I have been a fan of BC and use various aspects of it all the time, some to varying degrees.
I want to see someone write an alternative to FMP... really bad, I loved the uniform nature of what it did for mods and now that's gone because CB has a real life and now the community is stuck with this kinda broken scala ... thing and the only thing anyone can use it for is adding decorative rings around their bases. When it comes to this level of deving I will admit that I am lost entirely, plain and simple. I would like to see someone with asie's skill level write an api that allows for interacting with different parts of a block, but something more than just "take pipe, take cover, hide pipe, profit". The api wouldn't need to be bundled with an equivalent to microblocks and frankly shouldn't be. The gate system could then use this new api and hopefully people would then be more willing to add gate conditionals and such (I loved the gate system back when it was supported by basically everything, when Direwolf used to bug people when their machines didn't provide conditionals ) something like the pipe wiring might be useable by other mods... I might also just be spewing hot air...

 

[TheLoneWolfling]

Just so I can understand what you are saying:
First you say, you don't think robots fit into BC, and rather have those as an addon.
Then you say ore doubling, etc. shouldn't exist in an addon (or at all) because you don't think it fits BC?

Nope.

SpaceToad added the feature before I took over BC, and I love the robots a lot. What's wrong with it?

They twig with me, but I'm not sure why, at least not well enough to explain. I'll have to think on it.

They actually weren't until I cleaned it up over the period of a few weeks.

So could you make them a separate submodule then?

SpaceToad hardcoded the animation alongside the filler/builder rewrite.

Wonderful. I suppose that explains it then.

What? That's a bug, most likely.

Not really, as far as I can tell. Just a side effect of a relatively large network (and hence a lot of connectivity checking).

The pump thing was very temporary and only done because of the RF rewrite and us thinking on how to handle the fact redstone engines cannot emit fractions of an RF.

Good to know. A limitation with the RF API?

Not released.

Something to keep an eye out for, then. Especially if it replaces facades. I don't like having umpteen-billion different mods variants of multiblocks.

People like content. What can I do about it?

Think about it, then ultimately do what you think best.

However, I fail to see why this is related to my response.

Where it /was/? It was much worse off than it is now, that's for sure.

Where it was pre builder removal - so my idea of time period is probably different from yours.

Sometimes, breaking things is justified - but never break things without a long warning.

And again, differences. Personally? Nope. At the very least, don't break things without a way to unbreak them.

Working on it.

Good to know.

We never do that.

And I hope you never will. Unfortunately, even in this thread there are plenty of people advocating the opposite ("the textures are outdated!").

I actually consider CC a highly overpowered mod, which, from a programmer's point of view, balanced for little more than education.

Have you ever played CC by itself? Yes, you can do almost anything. But it takes as long, if not longer, than, say, BC. and it's fun every step of the way.

Neither obsoleted anything.

By my definition, the ACT makes the autocrafting table obsolete, and autarchic gates make a redstone engine obsolete. As the ACT only requires a higher up-front cost and power (which is automatizable itself), and autarchic gates can always replace a redstone engine. (I mean technically you could come up with exceptions to both, but I have yet to see a case where that's happened outside of a contrived counterexample.)

 

[asiekierka]

And I hope you never will. Unfortunately, even in this thread there are plenty of people advocating the opposite ("the textures are outdated!").

Except we are actually changing the textures, and have been working on them on and off for the last 6 months or so? To add functionality and freshen up the look, as BC is quite ugly in places, but not in a massive way.

 

[asiekierka]

I am really looking forward to what you have in store for the BC addons and modularization of the mod itself. I have been a fan of BC and use various aspects of it all the time, some to varying degrees.
I want to see someone write an alternative to FMP... really bad, I loved the uniform nature of what it did for mods and now that's gone because CB has a real life and now the community is stuck with this kinda broken scala ... thing and the only thing anyone can use it for is adding decorative rings around their bases. When it comes to this level of deving I will admit that I am lost entirely, plain and simple. I would like to see someone with asie's skill level write an api that allows for interacting with different parts of a block, but something more than just "take pipe, take cover, hide pipe, profit". The api wouldn't need to be bundled with an equivalent to microblocks and frankly shouldn't be. The gate system could then use this new api and hopefully people would then be more willing to add gate conditionals and such (I loved the gate system back when it was supported by basically everything, when Direwolf used to bug people when their machines didn't provide conditionals ) something like the pipe wiring might be useable by other mods... I might also just be spewing hot air...

The current gates API is independent from BuildCraft and any mod can provide their own gates.

 

[ljfa]

Good to know. A limitation with the RF API?

Yes. RF values are always integers. MJ used to be floating point values afaik.

And by the way, resource packs are a thing

 

[KingTriaxx]

The textures are outdated in the same manner as the lava textures from 1.2.5. They're serviceable, but not fantastic. Mostly they just need some cleaning up with more advanced software. IE compare the texture on the Quarry to the texture on the Combustion Engine. The CE is much smoother than the Quarry, if only because it's been worked on. The Quarry Texture is fine, but it's got lots of noise to make grey that's no longer necessary because MC can do much better grey.

 

[Darkone84]

A better Buttercraft Refinery....
More refining options for oil & fuel maybe add other by-products like Kerosene and Diesel fuel from the refining process.
Maybe split Buildcraft up and have the pipes into another mod.
Have a config option that overrides some recipes to use Buildcraft chips as a recipe component.

 

[Yusunoha]

is it possible to add the option of having the filler drop the blocks it mines when clearing, but add a higher cost?
you could open the GUI and select a checkbox and the filler would drop the blocks it mines.