What exactly is offensive about being told to play in creative mode?

[casilleroatr]

Occasionally on these forums people get told stuff along these lines. (I have never said any of this myself nor am I quoting anyone in particular - just paraphrasing)

1. "Why not just go off and play Gregtech " with maybe a couple of extra ruder embellishments

or

2. "Uh, the crop gatherer from Minetractor Rebooted is so OP, y'all who use it may as well just play creative"

--

I am interested in the second sentiment. Why do people use creative mode as a stick to try and shame others. "Go play creative mode" type statements are often met with the opprobrium they deserve, but (and I'm generalising") from people who tend to play survival mode.

Their general playstyle seems to involve (with normal variance)

• a small toleration for tedium which can be boosted if the reward is significant (e.g. they get pleasure from bee breeding, they want a high end Thaumcraft item, Railway's are worth waiting for etc),
• Enjoy making large fancy structures or machines without sitting at a crafting bench all evening. Bonus for cross-mod interaction
• Survival elements seem more like a minigame, or just an excuse to have a nice Tinker's sword or a cool powersuit (and the odd mob drop I guess)
• Probably other stuff (I don't know any of you after all and this list is obviously uncomplete-able, it is just an example)

Even if I am slightly wrong there, I can be almost certain of one thing. It is not actual creative mode.

I do play creative mode regularly and I enjoy it. I enjoy having access to any block in the game right away so I can build a pretty house. I set it to peaceful as well so I don't have to worry about mobs while I am building. Creative flight is really useful as well as is the ability to spawn in a filler and a creative energy cell to clear terrain that is in my way. Most of the time I tend to play creative and survival on the same map. I have my own set of rules to do this, I don't just cheat in a random stack of gold halfway through a crafting job and I don't cheat machines in either (with a few exceptions).

A few details in here

Spoiler

What I do do though is start up in creative mode to build a nice house. In my current playthrough I am trying to build Arendelle castle from the film Frozen and I am using a lot of forestry woods and other fancy bricks. Sometimes I use stuff that is easy to get in bulk in large quantities early game like chisel blocks. Other times I cheat in stuff that is behind a massive amount of gameplay like forestry wood. I have also cheated in a computer, a few drawbridges, an open peripheral sensor, and some wireless and project red redstone stuff so I can build a fancy proximity activated door. Meanwhile I am doing everything else the normal way (as much as I feel like it anyway).

tl:dr
When the "go play creative mode" trope is played out most of the reaction seems to be from people who don't usually play creative. That's fine, but what I don't get is why it is used as an insult in the first place.

Creative mode is a legitimate playstyle after all (just like Gregtech and similar "hard mode" options too).

If you read this far, thank you and have some freshly baked cookies. Take two if you have anything to add to this thread.



Finally, I am not trying to have a go at anyone. I am not angry about people being told to play creative mode, just confused. I do not make value judgements about people's playstyles (except mine, which is clearly the best ).

 

[RedBoss]

The "just play creative mode" comment always struck me as a low brow jab because the person using it had no ground to stand on.

Even if you play Creative or spawn things in occasionally, you still need to use the blocks effectively to make a system. Having access to machines doesn't give you skill in setting up an automatic farm, energy generation, or even a nice looking house.

Plus death is not an option in creative mode (not in any serious context). There's very few items that negate every form of damage. It's ridiculous that many throwing the creative argument are firm fans of ic2 which offers end goal armor that replicates creative mode. Go figure.

Massive resource acquisition is the end result of this and many other games. Even in vanilla Minecraft, there comes a point where you have stacks of diamonds, chests of ores and warehouses of stone & wood. The "creative mode" statement is not a valid one and shows, to me, proof of the user's lack of creativity. It's definitely the trademark of a trolling attitude.

 

[b0bst3r]

It's used to paraphrase "you made it too easy, you may as well spawn the stuff in".

 

[casilleroatr]

I use survival mode purely to test out builds in creative mode. It is hard to know how effective your automining system is at a particular stage of the game if everything is spawned in so for example. The resource acquisition aspect of survival gives me very little pleasure. When I get pleasure out of survival it is because a build I designed in creative actually works how I intend in normal gameplay and I feel vindicated.

 

[Zenthon_127]

The Creative Mode insult, on the surface, is about as bad as the "Go play GregTech" one. The difference? The Creative Mode insult is, 95% of the time, used by IC2 or GregTech players insulting a style of play by saying that you may as well just spawn things in. This by itself is idiotic as IC2 adds FREAKING INVINCIBILITY ARMOR and INFINITE NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCES, as well as GregTech being the highest-power mod in 1.6 that isn't named ExtraCells. It's almost always used by hypocrites and thus is associated with idiot trolls, as well as being drastically more common than being told to play with GT (insult version, because that can be a legitimate suggestion too).

 

[YX33A]

It's used to paraphrase "you made it too easy, you may as well spawn the stuff in".

Oh, that explains why I've been told similar things when suggesting people use Dartcraft. I admit, the most recent event related to this was on the topic of Force Mitts and Silverwood Saplings(namely the fact that using a Force Mitt to break silverwood leaves increases your chance to get saplings), to which someone responded "Might as well just spawn in a stack of saplings at that point".

I mean, I did say that you would have more Silverwood Saplings then you would have a need for, which is very true in TC4 if you gather even one(unlike in TC3 where they were super useful due to node mechanics), unless you want to build your house out of Silverwood Planks(which do look nice, at least).

 

[casilleroatr]

Oh, that explains why I've been told similar things when suggesting people use Dartcraft. I admit, the most recent event related to this was on the topic of Force Mitts and Silverwood Saplings(namely the fact that using a Force Mitt to break silverwood leaves increases your chance to get saplings), to which someone responded "Might as well just spawn in a stack of saplings at that point".

I mean, I did say that you would have more Silverwood Saplings then you would have a need for, which is very true in TC4 if you gather even one(unlike in TC3 where they were super useful due to node mechanics), unless you want to build your house out of Silverwood Planks(which do look nice, at least).

I understand that part of the idea of Thaumcraft (at least in version 3) is that silverwoods were unrenewable, and this increases their value, but for those who enjoy a little bit of exploring to get silverwoods but not too much, the force mitts give you the option (in legit gameplay no less) of deciding when you want to stop having to rely on exploration to get silverwoods and when you just want to be able to farm them. This is definitely a far cry away from creative mode.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

There's nothing wrong with playing creative mode. There is, however, a problem in pretending to play the game "as intended" while running mods like eg MystCraft (which makes it very, very easy to skip huge chunks of gameplay that other mod authors had put in place). If you're going to "cheat" by using mods like MystCraft, Morph, the older version of DartCraft etc, then you might as well just use creative mode instead of acting like you're playing within the rules that other mod authors set.

To which people might say they don't care how other people, developers or otherwise, want them to play the game. To which I'd again say that's fine - just don't complain about running out of things to do too quickly.

The Creative Mode insult, on the surface, is about as bad as the "Go play GregTech" one. The difference? The Creative Mode insult is, 95% of the time, used by IC2 or GregTech players insulting a style of play by saying that you may as well just spawn things in. This by itself is idiotic as IC2 adds FREAKING INVINCIBILITY ARMOR and INFINITE NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCES, as well as GregTech being the highest-power mod in 1.6 that isn't named ExtraCells. It's almost always used by hypocrites and thus is associated with idiot trolls, as well as being drastically more common than being told to play with GT (insult version, because that can be a legitimate suggestion too).

Wait wait wait wait wait.

You're seriously suggesting that because IC2/GregTech eventually, after much grinding, building, and expenditure of time, give you unlimited resources - that they're anything like starting out in creative mode?

Seriously?

 

[Zenthon_127]

Wait wait wait wait wait.

You're seriously suggesting that because IC2/GregTech eventually, after much grinding, building, and expenditure of time, give you unlimited resources - that they're anything like starting out in creative mode?

Seriously?

Er, no. I'm saying that they do eventually get to the point where they may as well just be pulling things out of Creative, and IC2/GT is one of the few things that can let you do that at ANY stage in the game (besides tree farms). Obviously AE helps and Mystcraft is 100x worse (again, I'll quote myself in saying that it's more of a joke than a mod), but it's still hypocritical.

Regardless, the point is that the Creative Mode insult is associated with idiot trolls.

 

[casilleroatr]

There's nothing wrong with playing creative mode. There is, however, a problem in pretending to play the game "as intended" while running mods like eg MystCraft (which makes it very, very easy to skip huge chunks of gameplay that other mod authors had put in place). If you're going to "cheat" by using mods like MystCraft, Morph, the older version of DartCraft etc, then you might as well just use creative mode instead of acting like you're playing within the rules that other mod authors set.

To which people might say they don't care how other people, developers or otherwise, want them to play the game. To which I'd again say that's fine - just don't complain about running out of things to do too quickly.

This is the sort of live and let live post that is very difficult to have a problem with. I admit that in my single player worlds, the "rules" that mod authors attempt to put in place are subordinated to my own whim - I have never played mystcraft (for cheating, or anything really because I can't write an age to save my life) or morph though. I did play dartcraft in 1.5 though, but I never really abused it because I wasn't that interested in it (although I love it now). My cheating is much more vanilla than that anyway . Furthermore, the builds I do in creative mode do tend to be possible in normal play and I would argue that they fit into the "normal" conventions for what is and isn't standard gameplay (that concept really is subjective though).

I use brackets too much in sentences (I should stop trying to say too many things at once).

Spoiler

(I should have used a semicolon there I think. I shoehorned in a pair of brackets for comedy.)

 

[mrbaggins]

It's because people tend to forget that playstyles are a spectrum, like driving speeds.

Creative        Plays easier      Plays harder    Gregtechs cousin who
mode            than you          than you      thinks Greg plays easy
V                    V                  V                V
[--------------------|--------YOU-------|-----------------]
^                    ^                  ^                ^
Inching along  Drives slower    Drives faster        Michael
like grandpa      than you          than you    Schumacher on speed

Everyone who takes an easier road than you, either by using Enderchests, tesseracts, MFR, or IC2 teleporters, or Mystcraft, or turning a single GT config down is "A chump who doesn't appreciate difficulty and should play on creative" whereas everyone who takes the harder road, whether it's by using Railcraft for transport, lumber axes for wood, iguanaTweaks for progression, or turning GT into hell mode is "An idiot who would prefer tedium over gameplay, and should make use Sengirs wooden planks for all their builds"

No one is right.

The problem comes when you want to run a server, because even two people who agree on most will disagree on SOMETHING above, and as a result, the arguments start.

The solution is to acknowledge that regardless of where you are, people either side are going to make suggestions that both do and don't concern you. These suggestions have to be taken from ALL points of view, not just yours. So yeah, I think Steve carts tree farms are overpowered. I think Mystcraft makes a joke of transport, and EnderStorage kills innovation and awesome factories. I also think the GT reactor is ridiculously difficult, that Infernal mobs needs scaling to armor/time played and that taint needs a way to be fought early on. All tesseracts should need energy to transport stuff (energy tesseract already done).

It doesn't mean my suggestion is immediately invalid because it would negatively affect you. It just means we play differently. Each suggestion needs to be taken in context of single player, multiplayer, and the other mods also in use.

 

[Bigpak]

At the original poster, I think people take it as an offense as they take it as it being said "You use overpowered items and you are no good at the game, just go player creative mode and spawn things in". I personally always do survival as I just find it fun to survive and have it be hard etc and always feel like you need to survive and struggle. I think that it shouldn't be used to insult people or anyone or insult anyone in any way and everyone needs to get along and have fun, its a game after all isn't it?

Just have fun stop arguing and have fun

There is no right and wrong play style or form of playing. It's a game and at that its also a sandbox game, it would be silly if you were limited to one form or the other

P.S. I like your avatar

 

[casilleroatr]

At the original poster, I think people take it as an offense as they take it as it being said "You use overpowered items and you are no good at the game, just go player creative mode and spawn things in". I personally always do survival as I just find it fun to survive and have it be hard etc and always feel like you need to survive and struggle. I think that it shouldn't be used to insult people or anyone or insult anyone in any way and everyone needs to get along and have fun, its a game after all isn't it?

Just have fun stop arguing and have fun

There is no right and wrong play style or form of playing. It's a game and at that its also a sandbox game, it would be silly if you were limited to one form or the other

Yeah, we all need to chill out sometimes because it is just a game. To be clear, I am not trying to start an argument, and my feelings aren't personally hurt when creative mode jibes are thrown about so I have not reason to retaliate or anything. The reason I started this thread is because a few threads recently, to the betterment of the the forum community IMO, have been exploring different playstyles in a largely civilised manner. The debate seems to have focused on the opposite end of the playstyle spectrum which I will crudely label as hardmode, or whether things are intuitive or tedious and what is an acceptable level of tedium. I felt like I had something to offer the debate but I started a new thread because I was coming from a different angle. The thread title is perhaps a bit contentious, but nothing in this thread makes me think I will come to regret that and I hope it stays that way.

P.S. I like your avatar

Thank you, Princess Bubblegum is my homegirl

<snip>

I am not sure if I quite get the purpose of your analogy, and you should see me in creative mode, I ain't no Grandpa. That happens when my time management skills leave a bit to be desired in survival mode.

As far as your main point goes, I understand that in a multiplayer environment one might not get the mod pack tailored to how they like it. In minecraft as in real life we usually need to be willing to compromise when you start interacting with other people. I don't think I understand what you mean about having suggestions invalidated because they negatively affect someone though. Would you care to clarify.

 

[mrbaggins]

I am not sure if I quite get the purpose of your analogy, and you should see me in creative mode, I ain't no Grandpa. That happens when my time management skills leave a bit to be desired in survival mode.

As far as your main point goes, I understand that in a multiplayer environment one might not get the mod pack tailored to how they like it. In minecraft as in real life we usually need to be willing to compromise when you start interacting with other people. I don't think I understand what you mean about having suggestions invalidated because they negatively affect someone though. Would you care to clarify.

My point is the famous joke:

On the road, everyone going slower than you is a moron, everyone going faster is a maniac.

In Minecraft, anyone who wants things simpler is a creative-noob, and anyone who wants things harder has a tedium-boner.

 

[BIG mac]

I spawn in enderpearls. Am I a bad person?

 

[jokermatt999]

I spawn in enderpearls. Am I a bad person?

No, mod authors who require ender pearls are. It's the one item that makes me miss EE3. I'd even take an 8 diamonds to one ender pearl trade with how annoying they are to get. Currently, I've been saving mimichite for when I need them.

Back on topic: arguments that insult a person or their play style (which is a subjective thing anyway) are always bad. Address their actual concerns about specific mods, mechanics or interactions, and accept they have a different opinion

 

[utterablehawk675]

There's nothing wrong with playing creative mode. There is, however, a problem in pretending to play the game "as intended" while running mods like eg MystCraft (which makes it very, very easy to skip huge chunks of gameplay that other mod authors had put in place). If you're going to "cheat" by using mods like MystCraft, Morph, the older version of DartCraft etc, then you might as well just use creative mode instead of acting like you're playing within the rules that other mod authors set.

Look, a gregtech fanboy!

Mystcraft only skips chunks of gameplay if you choose to enable things like Ore tendrils and UU matter oceans in the config.

Morph is only OP if you choose not to disable flight.

Why don't people understand configs?[DOUBLEPOST=1389505593][/DOUBLEPOST]

I spawn in enderpearls. Am I a bad person?

Doood u might as wel play creative

 

[Hoff]

"as intended"

By who?

No mod author defines how I play minecraft. If they attempt to; I no longer use their mod.

 

[zorn]

By who?

No mod author defines how I play minecraft. If they attempt to; I no longer use their mod.

Yes but using an MPS suit in twilight forest is really killing all the fun, don't you think? I didnt even realize it the first time I played it, just using my MPS suit like eveyrone else was, doing OTHER fun stuff like quarrying a dark tower, etc. Which IS fun, to do those crazy powerful things. A vanilla player who just installed twilight forest would never be able to go back home and build a base out of mazestone or dark tower wood like I could have.

But then I realized... holy shit people without flight have to go through the dark forest to even get to the thing! Or do they walk across the top? I guess it comes down to, when does 'smartly reducing your risk in a strategic way' become 'having no risk at all'? Everyone naturally reduces risk and wants to make sure they survive, its a basic human instinct. Is walking over the top of the forest smart playing, or bypassing the mod? Personally i think its just smart playing, but the MPS suit.. it requires no strategy or thought, and reduces risk all teh way to zero. It reduces it right down to the level that Creative Mode presents to people. Which is why people say 'so why didnt you just play creative'? Its only aggressive if you add the tone, if you hear that sentence in a calm tone, its just a valid question. If Survival was a Beer and Creative a glass of wine, it would be like a person choosing to drink a beer, but then say they hate beer any time they see it. So you ask... why don't you just not drink beer?

This is why people say 'if you didnt want any danger or risk in the game, why did you choose survival mode and not just go creative?'

Then look at the other aspects of survival. It makes you craft things (tedium), makes you do work to be able to build something (mining for ores to make things) and it makes you maintain things (load a furnace, etc.)

Now look at the common complaints. People hate mods that require you to maintain machines. Railcraft turbines, steves carts drills. They hate it when mods make you do a lot of crafting to get to the goal (gregtech, TC3 research, etc.) And they hate anythng that makes resources more scarce, and love mods that make them more abundant. Big Dig pack was, last I knew, the most popular pack on Technic. Quarry plus is now a mod being added to ftb packs.

So the logical question is to say 'if you didnt like the taste of beer... why are you drinking it? Take the wine." To continue the analogy, it would be like people saying they want beer, but then always saying "I want chardonnay flavored beer!" "Can you get rid of the hops flavor and add some oaky nuttiness?" "Id love a blush beer, you know made with grapes and not grains?" Wait? Do you just want wine? "NO NO, I want beer! Beer is manly and I love it."

And it kind of shows why people get upset. People respect survival mode accomplishments more than they do things made in creative, so they want to say they love a good cold beer but will demand the flavor of wine. And I get it, when I ask the question, im like the jerk who says 'hey man you drinking some sissy drink there? have a beer, be a man!" Its probably mostly men, because a lot of jerk ass men act like this. And honestly, i learned to drink jack daniels 20 years ago just to shut those idiots up, evne though it tasted like crap. Now though... I can go to a wedding and order Jack on the rocks. No one busts my ass about it, no alpha male crap etc.

This is what i thnk it is, and now that I write it out, ill be more careful about using the phrase.

Some day i will figure out how to write a reply in less than 1000 words. :/

 

[Hoff]

Yes but using an MPS suit in twilight forest is really killing all the fun, don't you think? I didnt even realize it the first time I played it, just using my MPS suit like eveyrone else was, doing OTHER fun stuff like quarrying a dark tower, etc. Which IS fun, to do those crazy powerful things. A vanilla player who just installed twilight forest would never be able to go back home and build a base out of mazestone or dark tower wood like I could have.

But then I realized... holy shit people without flight have to go through the dark forest to even get to the thing! Or do they walk across the top? I guess it comes down to, when does 'smartly reducing your risk in a strategic way' become 'having no risk at all'? Everyone naturally reduces risk and wants to make sure they survive, its a basic human instinct. Is walking over the top of the forest smart playing, or bypassing the mod? Personally i think its just smart playing, but the MPS suit.. it requires no strategy or thought, and reduces risk all teh way to zero. It reduces it right down to the level that Creative Mode presents to people. Which is why people say 'so why didnt you just play creative'? Its only aggressive if you add the tone, if you hear that sentence in a calm tone, its just a valid question. If Survival was a Beer and Creative a glass of wine, it would be like a person choosing to drink a beer, but then say they hate beer any time they see it. So you ask... why don't you just not drink beer?

This is why people say 'if you didnt want any danger or risk in the game, why did you choose survival mode and not just go creative?'

Then look at the other aspects of survival. It makes you craft things (tedium), makes you do work to be able to build something (mining for ores to make things) and it makes you maintain things (load a furnace, etc.)

Now look at the common complaints. People hate mods that require you to maintain machines. Railcraft turbines, steves carts drills. They hate it when mods make you do a lot of crafting to get to the goal (gregtech, TC3 research, etc.) And they hate anythng that makes resources more scarce, and love mods that make them more abundant. Big Dig pack was, last I knew, the most popular pack on Technic. Quarry plus is now a mod being added to ftb packs.

So the logical question is to say 'if you didnt like the taste of beer... why are you drinking it? Take the wine." To continue the analogy, it would be like people saying they want beer, but then always saying "I want chardonnay flavored beer!" "Can you get rid of the hops flavor and add some oaky nuttiness?" "Id love a blush beer, you know made with grapes and not grains?" Wait? Do you just want wine? "NO NO, I want beer! Beer is manly and I love it."

And it kind of shows why people get upset. People respect survival mode accomplishments more than they do things made in creative, so they want to say they love a good cold beer but will demand the flavor of wine. And I get it, when I ask the question, im like the jerk who says 'hey man you drinking some sissy drink there? have a beer, be a man!" Its probably mostly men, because a lot of jerk ass men act like this. And honestly, i learned to drink jack daniels 20 years ago just to shut those idiots up, evne though it tasted like crap. Now though... I can go to a wedding and order Jack on the rocks. No one busts my ass about it, no alpha male crap etc.

This is what i thnk it is, and now that I write it out, ill be more careful about using the phrase.

Some day i will figure out how to write a reply in less than 1000 words. :/

I think the difference comes down to what minecraft is. It's not just a beer, you could make it in to beer, but you could also make it into wine, whiskey, or rum. Besides that the definition of normal minecraft survival need not always apply. For an analogy you might better associate with:

That fusion reactor you made? Or processing line you automated? That is equal to "creative mode" that some players will get from mods you consider too easy or in combination become too easy. The time they spent to get to that place is the same as the time you spent to get those machines or automate them. The only difference is in actual time spent(Not saying more or less is bad or good just that's the only factor that is truly different). They get the same kind of accomplishment from those mods you get from end game mods. Others may get it from building their own "machine" or factory out of smaller sets of machines that mods give them. In this case them creating the factory and making it work is the equivalent to getting the resources, crafting, and automating the things you do.

The difference with minecraft and alcohol(Less so these days with the HUGE number of variations in drinks these days) is that there is no black and white. It's all different shades of gray more or less so depending on what color gray you are. Passing any sort of judgement on any playstyle immediately makes you wrong. That doesn't mean anyone else is right either though. Everyone is wrong just as everyone is right. Some may dream of working(Whatever that may mean to them be it 1 day 20 days or 2 years) to become a "god" in minecraft. Some may want to do it from the start. Some may not want the "godliness" and instead just access to anything they want be it through work or not. How much work you want to put in based on what you get from that is totally up to you. All any mod can do is offer a path(s) that they feel to have some arbitrary value of work to them and let people use/change them as they see fit.

All in all; never judge anyone and call out anyone that does.