Update on the Future of FTB Modpacks in 1.7

Discussion in 'Feed the Beast News' started by Jadedcat, Apr 26, 2014.

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  1. Arron Syaoran

    Arron Syaoran New Member

    Gigazoth would probably be more into the magic packs than I. A pack with tech mods combined with magic mods would probably suit both our interests.
     
  2. Mevansuto

    Mevansuto New Member

    Here you go. Go into Private Packs and type in "MegaSharkPunch". Your day will be made.
     
  3. Slowleakage

    Slowleakage New Member

    By their powers combined, Captain All the mods!
     
  4. Jadedcat

    Jadedcat New Member

    Try Ag Skies or MF2. They are a mix of Magic and Tech.
     
    Derpysauce likes this.
  5. keybounce

    keybounce New Member

    That's just silly. Take a mod that only introduces new biomes, and nothing else. That can be balanced, easily.

    Or, take a mod that revamps enchanting. You are less likely to get multiple enchantments, and can never get 4 enchantments -- but you have the ability to take actions to influence what enchantments you do get. Can that be balanced against vanilla? Sure.

    Heck, lets take an extreme -- a mod that lets you select the specific enchantment you want, but has raised the level costs of enchantments up to around 70 at the high end. You get one, instead of 1 to 4. Is that balanced? Is that concept balanceable? I think so.

    Can anything that automates production be balanced against vanilla? Vanilla has a fair amount of automation, at least from mob drops, hoppers/droppers/dispensers; you don't have a block breaker, and you don't have good liquid pipes. But adding in things that match what vanilla has, that vanilla lacks? Liquid pipes that match hopper pipes? An automatic block breaker that can be placed next to your cobble generator? A way to generate dirt, sand, etc., in the same way you generate cobble? Sure, that can be balanced.

    Is a self powered (negative entropy) machine that uses an igneous extruder to feed a pulverizer for gravel, that gravel into another pulverizer for sand; AND, that first igneous extruder feeding into a crucible (powered by netherrack) at the same time, to generate lava, to power a magmatic dynamo, to power both pulverizers, balanced? In other words, a setup where cobble is burned to make lava to power the crushing of cobble down to gravel, sand, and dust, with spare power left over? The crucible is from Ex Nihlo; the rest is all from TE. Balanced? Realistic? (As realistic as a flame that never goes out, but still generates heat? :).

    Alright, lets break this down. Do you have *ANY* idea how hard it is to get that Rotarycraft extractor to process a stack that quickly?

    RotaryCraft's big primary feature list includes extreme late-game excess. One of the devices that you can build once you have massive automation going requires around 1500 blocks, and building it requires around 10,000 of a single not-that-common resource.

    RotaryCraft lets you do enormous, crazy, excessive things as a LATE GAME mod. As in, by the time you get to that point, you've pretty much demonstrated that you can do just about anything anyways; the massively fast resource gathering is as much about saving your time to let you do things with the resources. But it's late game. Not early.

    If you think it's easy, then I give you this challenge: Give yourself all the vanilla resources (iron, coal, sand, etc) that you need. Now see how much time it takes to make that device, how big it is, etc. Tell me that you can build it with any ease, in any reasonable amount of time, etc.

    Now tell me how many resources you had to spend to make it all happen. Remember, you can make all the parts you need to make a bedrock breaker -- but you'll have to break that bedrock. Count the resources you spend to make that bedrock breaker.

    Hmm ... do you need any lubricant for this system? Don't forge the lubricant maker. And everything to put lubricant into all the gears ...

    Ohh, did you make everything from bedrock gears/shafts/etc to avoid lubricant? Ok, how much time did you spend just breaking the bedrock?

    Still think it's easy, or imbalanced?

    ====

    Vanilla late game is "Kill the wither, in a fair fight". Once you can do that, you get a beacon. (Ok, you can murder withers in unfair fights quickly and easily. Fine.). Beacons are Vanilla's "You've beaten the game" automation. Being able to use efficiency 5 tools with a haste 2 beacon to clear out an area as fast as you can move? Then tossing an efficiency pick to get higher than normal ore drops for everything except iron and gold (Or add in a mod that gives you unrefined iron/gold drops and eliminates the inherent silk-touch of those two ore blocks), and you have vanilla's (I think) 50-100% increase in production rate.) Not to mention speed increase, regeneration, etc. And what do you do after that? Well, if you can take out a wither, there's very little that can be considered OP. Blood magic requires 4 beacons for it's high-end stuff; I've seen other things that use a nether star for excessive stuff. A mod that has high powered stuff that requires as much work to acquire as killing a wither is not overpowered or excessive -- it fits vanilla.

    But a mod that gives you the same thing just for, oh, a few diamonds, a dozen gold, 50 redstone, and 100 iron is out of line. I don't know what it takes to do this sort of thing in TE, but from what I'm reading, it's supposed to be fairly easy -- easier than Reika's machine, for example.

    You do realize that Magic Farm 2 is a tech world modpack, despite the name, right? Yes, it has blood magic and thaumcraft, but neither is a core part of the mod and both can be removed without harming the feel that Jaded is going for.

    EDIT: Well, Jaded beat me to it. <Sigh>. (And yes, out the door, MF2 does have magic.)
     
    JusticeOF666 likes this.
  6. Jadedcat

    Jadedcat New Member

    Guys... this isn't the place for in depth discussions at to the merits of every mod. Take that to mod discussion please.
     
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  7. keybounce

    keybounce New Member

    /me apologizes ... will obey.
     
  8. Derpysauce

    Derpysauce Well-Known Member

    I feel as if a armada of rofl copters just came to life XD
     
  9. TigerShark

    TigerShark New Member

    I didn't get if this decision was made because IC and BC are buggy and not being updated or just because u dont want several energy systems on the same pack.
    Only 1 energy system per pack is silly... I have electricity, natural gas and fuel in my car, even the real world would have more variety than a pack like that.....

    And RF..... rf has only 3 dynamos... lossless pipes and no special properties. It's the silliest form of energy, just plug and play... unless there are some other mods adding dynamos an enhancing the mechanics, it will be boring...
     
  10. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    If you don't like RF, play one of the packs that is centered around BC or IC2 instead. It's already been stated there will be packs based on them as well, just not as many.
     
  11. Mevansuto

    Mevansuto New Member

    RF has way more ways of generating power than 3 Dynamos. Firstly TE has 4. Then there are the numerous generators from XU, there's about 10 of them, all fuelled by unique things (Pink POWAH!). Then there are the many unique generators from Mekanism (Hydrogen Generators, windmills, solar power). There are more mods that generate RF power, EnderIO, MFR, Resonant Induction. Don't make the mistake of thinking RF is just in one mod, there are way more mods and ways to generate power than with MJ and EU, combined. And they're more interesting than just the dynamos.

    Is it me, or are all the "new members" on this thread forgetting there are more RF mods than just TE?

    Count how many of the 10(?) 1.6 packs that use IC2 now. I count 3. Correct me if I'm wrong but the number in 1.7 will still be roughly the same.
     
    Not_Steve, PierceSG, Flipz and 2 others like this.
  12. Jadedcat

    Jadedcat New Member

    A lot of mods add RF generators, dynamos, reactors, solar engines etc.
     
  13. Jadedcat

    Jadedcat New Member

    Well technically only 2 use IC2. Tech 2 currently is just Monster with the magic mods removed. Only 1 FTB official pack currently uses IC2: Monster. Same with BC, and RailCraft. Current 1.6.4 official FTB packs only 1 has those mods. Magic 2 and Tech 2 are basically Monster clones with either tech or magic mods removed. DW20 is the Direwolf youtube pack. That leaves: FTBLite2 , Horizons and Monster as the FTB Official packs, with DW20, BloodNBones, AgSkies and MF2 as the packs made by the FTB team that are no full FTB packs. If you look at all of those packs 2 have BC,RC and IC2, if you remove the 3rd party packs maintained by FTB team members only 1 has BC,IC2 or RC. Which is one of the reasons I am surprised at people being upset. The main thing changing is instead of Magic and Tech being clones of the all in one pack they will have their own mod list and separate feel.
     
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  14. TigerShark

    TigerShark New Member

    I'm sorry but your are all replying to my personal opinion about rf and not to my real question and the main concern of my post....

    It doesn't matter what me or u think about rf, again, the question is:
    this decision was made because IC and BC are buggy and not being updated or just because u dont want several energy systems on the same pack?


    If not for technical difficulties, I see nothing wrong in having several energy systems. The same criteria could be applied to different kinds of storage, automatic mining, etc, etc, etc
     
  15. Padfoote

    Padfoote Brick Thrower Team Member Forum Moderator

    Taken from the very first post in this thread (bolded for emphasis):

     
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  16. Disembodied

    Disembodied New Member

    Since nobody in here has said what "RF" IS, I am posting so nobody else will have to waste fifteen minutes haplessly trying to google a two-letter acronym:

    RF stands for Redstone Flux; It's Thermal Expansion's power system. Thermal expansion has already given us the ultimate liquid transport method (liquiducts), and also item transport, although if this is bewildering to you like it was for me, it's probably because you, like me, are still playing FTB Ultimate because you like it more than these silly newfangled packs.

    Keywords to enhance ctrl+f searchability:

    RF is
    what is RF
    RF means
    explain RF
    define RF
    RF what

    edited out cussing: JC
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2014
  17. TigerShark

    TigerShark New Member

    Balance is not a "technical" problem.... balancing is a completely different issue and a very subjective one.
    And I dont really get what do a mod packer have to balance in terms of energy systems...
     
  18. Jadedcat

    Jadedcat New Member


    Actually no. RF is an energy API originally implemented by TE3 and now integrated in many mods. Including in 1.7 where TE has yet to make an appearance.


    Also as a moderator: please refrain from cussing.
     
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  19. Ldog

    Ldog New Member

    I hate coming this late to a thread, after a few pages it just turns into a bitchfest. Do any of you know what a PITA it is keeping up with varied update schedules and keeping everything working as intended while getting in all the new cool features and bug fixes you can? You really expect people to put their time and effort into making modpacks that aren't what they want to do? Unless FTB is stopping you from making your own packs I just don't see what all the crying is about.

    I applaud this decision myself, but then I'm a huge TE fan. Of course right now as there is no TE for 1.7.2 I am enjoying a bit of nostalgic fun with BC (and I would be with IC2 if it didn't keep crashing on me).

    I do my own thing and seldom play with FTB or Tekkit. Most of the packs up until now have been too generic for me. Cram all the mods you can in, resolve the ID conflicts and call it good seems to be the general rule. Hell this is the first time I've logged in here in many moons.

    So I've always wanted to try a skyblock but just never got around to it, so when Agrarian Skys shows up on the MC Forum news page I think, let's give this a looksee. I'm blown away. While there's some mods I wish were there and some I could do without, the care and thought that went into the configuration of this pack to me is what a modpack should be. It has a balance between being focused on the theme and having plenty of variety. The quest system of course is what really makes it shine (and I know this is a pretty new mod so I can only hope AS is just a taste of things to come). So many complex mods thrown in a pack, and it's hard to know what's what or where to begin or what feature is from what mod. Especially since so many mods are poorly documented. There are mods in this pack that I have never given a chance, and still wouldn't have without the quest system there to show me what this mod or that can do for me (or possibly even if a different mod that does similar but I was familiar and comfortable with was there alongside it).

    Every mod in a pack you should know it is there and need to make use of it or all it is doing is making your game run slower and potentially crashing more often just on the off chance that you might try it someday. I'm not that far into AS yet, but so far I feel it captures that statement. I'd love to see more packs like this.

    So really FTB team, keep up the superb work! :)

    Edit: People keep neglecting to mention Big Reactors!!! Big Reactors is only getting better and better every revision. It provides a fun scaleable RF power solution.
     
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  20. TheCupcakeisaLie

    TheCupcakeisaLie New Member


    that's what I for one have a problem with. Its ultimate. If I wasn't on mobile I would italisize ultimate, for the reason it renders everything else so obsolete, due to how easy it is. Sure its API is better and its easier to make things for RF, but that just supplements the fact everyone uses it because its easy. 1 relatively cheap block that transports nearly infinite amounts energy items and liquids. Why setup a rail system with tank carts when I can run nearly free opaque fluiducts, which personally I think we shouldn't have opaque anything because they are so dang cheap. I was on the ic2 forums awhile ago and saw something like x is overpowered because it does y cheaper and easier than z which also does y. Which of course is expected for other mods to be shortcutted due to easier options, which is also the reason people add their own ores and power systems so people actually play with the mod.





    Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
     
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