Those little things that irk you about Minecraft

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ljfa

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Jul 29, 2019
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So why can't we just have Bronze, Nickel and Platinum?
King Lemming explained it once:
And I know that the metal thing bothers people, but I'm trying to stick with the 7 metals of antiquity. Gold, Silver, Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, and Mercury. Anything outside of that feels new and specific. Not super Minecrafty. But I'll see if I can provide a config option possibly.

Fact is, Nickel and Iron are hard to tell apart, Platinum has no real obvious properties other than being shiny and heavy, and the blend that we've traditionally used as Bronze in MC just isn't - it's closer to a bell metal.
 

keybounce

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We need to combine tin and lead to make a low melting point alloy (Solder). Or combine nickle and iron to make a low-COE alloy. Or combine mercury and silver to make something really poisonous :)

Or, you know, iron and coal to make low-grade steel, or iron, coal, sand, gunpowder, under controlled heat to make high-grade steel, or ...

Yea, where does it stop?
 
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Type1Ninja

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The reality is that metallurgy in MC will always be semi-realistic at best. This will always be so, because of various design principles. I suggest we accept it rather than fight it - I mean, if we play games to get away from the hassle of real life, why bring the hassle of real life chemistry/metallurgy into Minecraft? :p
(That's not to say it's a bad idea to make such a mod; it would probably just end up either very grindy or become unrealistic in it's own right.)
 
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GreenZombie

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King Lemming explained it once:

Just because a mod author made a mod doesn't make them immune to being wrong. In this case it would be really Really handy if I could find the metals properly sorted in my AE system. Plus Thermal Expansion is a tech mod so names from antiquity don't make a lot of sense. To me at least.
 
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keybounce

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Tee hee. Yes, that's what I meant.

There's a few mods that have some form of carbon steel -- iron plus carbon (coal/charcoal) plus high temperature -- with railcraft one of the more well-known versions. And Reika introduced me to the existence of the higher quality, better regulated HSLA steel.

I mean, if we play games to get away from the hassle of real life, why bring the hassle of real life chemistry/metallurgy into Minecraft?

Hmm, gee, why have ATG or BWG for more realistic ground, or Geologica or Sweden University's new ground ore mod for more realistic ground content, or Galactic Craft for "realistic" space flight (hey, as realistic as KSP, right? :), or forestry/binnies for realistic genetics, or ...

If there's one thing I can say, it's scale. Something that takes 5 years of real life should be doable in a lot less than 5 years of gameplay. Minecraft has roughly a 72 times scaling factor overall (time is 72 times; distance ... varies :). If radiation is going to take decades of playtime to go away, that's too long. (... and, that's probably the only reason I don't plan to use a nuke reactor mod).

It all gets back to the basics: "Gee Ferb, what do you want to build today?".
 
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ljfa

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Apparently you can also make a sort of steel from just raw iron and air. Well it's not called steel but "refined iron". If you think about it, using air as oxidizing agent is the exact opposite to coal as reducing agent. The iron would oxidize away in IC2exp's blast furnace.

The reality is that metallurgy in MC will always be semi-realistic at best. This will always be so, because of various design principles. I suggest we accept it rather than fight it - I mean, if we play games to get away from the hassle of real life, why bring the hassle of real life chemistry/metallurgy into Minecraft? :p
(That's not to say it's a bad idea to make such a mod; it would probably just end up either very grindy or become unrealistic in it's own right.)
I think TerraFirmaCraft brings some more realistic metallurgy into play.
 

rhn

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Apparently you can also make a sort of steel from just raw iron and air. Well it's not called steel but "refined iron". If you think about it, using air as oxidizing agent is the exact opposite to coal as reducing agent. The iron would oxidize away in IC2exp's blast furnace.
You need to dust off your physics I believe. Oxidization happens in low energy environments where oxygen can bind with iron to release energy. A "blast furnace" is not exactly a low energy environment and the chemical behaviours are here quite different due to the enormous energy being introduced.
The reason why you can melt rust(oxidized iron) is in fact that at this high energy level the oxidized iron absorbs energy and releases the oxygen. This oxygen will then often absorb carbon and form CO2.
And this is actually a commonly used principle in steelmaking(the one that I would guess IC2 is mimicking) to reduce the carbon content of your "pig iron" to a level that is suited for your endgoal steel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_oxygen_steelmaking
 
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GreenZombie

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That I cannot mass place Bookshelf's with Equal Trade. When I try to shift click the Bookshelf to filter it to exchange block with them, it turns it into a Thaumonomicon..... :mad:

The focus of equal trade has a lot of potential that is not realized:
* In creative mode it shouldn't require / use up blocks.
* A totally brand new focus of equal trade is bound to "air"/nothing, and will (or at least, would at one time) exchange blocks with nothing. But there is no way to clear the wands setting to get that behaviour ever again.
 

ljfa

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You need to dust off your physics I believe. Oxidization happens in low energy environments where oxygen can bind with iron to release energy. A "blast furnace" is not exactly a low energy environment and the chemical behaviours are here quite different due to the enormous energy being introduced.
The reason why you can melt rust(oxidized iron) is in fact that at this high energy level the oxidized iron absorbs energy and releases the oxygen. This oxygen will then often absorb carbon and form CO2.
And this is actually a commonly used principle in steelmaking(the one that I would guess IC2 is mimicking) to reduce the carbon content of your "pig iron" to a level that is suited for your endgoal steel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_oxygen_steelmaking
Aaaah okay, ignore what I said. Metallurgy is complicated :D
 

rhn

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Metallurgy is complicated :D
OMG yes! Making steel is so complicated a process that I often am left baffled to how we ever discovered it in the first place. A lot of people must have unsuccessfully experimented with this awful material called Iron over thousands of years to discover the right procedures. Specially thinking about they had none of the knowledge that we have today about crystal structures, their properties and how to manipulate them.
 

RavynousHunter

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Jul 29, 2019
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Hey, iron was kickass back in the day, it beat the shit out of bronze, which is why its use marked the end of the Bronze Age. I believe steel's discovery (at least in Europe) was mostly an accident; a forge with the right conditions happened to create a kind of "super iron" that was more durable than normal. After that, folks were trying to replicate the conditions of said lucky forge and eventually happened upon the first processes to make steel. Of course, in its early days, steel was very expensive (kinda like aluminium was) and difficult to produce, so only the most high-ranking officers would get steel weapons.
 

Renton Terrace

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Hey, iron was kickass back in the day, it beat the shit out of bronze, which is why its use marked the end of the Bronze Age. I believe steel's discovery (at least in Europe) was mostly an accident; a forge with the right conditions happened to create a kind of "super iron" that was more durable than normal. After that, folks were trying to replicate the conditions of said lucky forge and eventually happened upon the first processes to make steel. Of course, in its early days, steel was very expensive (kinda like aluminium was) and difficult to produce, so only the most high-ranking officers would get steel weapons.
Iron was not better then Bronze in anyway other then price.
At least early Iron
 

asb3pe

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Aaaah okay, ignore what I said. Metallurgy is complicated :D

I love complicated and complex. Which FTB modpacks have Metallurgy in them? Do any of them have it? Just the 1.7 packs please, I like to stay as current and up-to-date as possible.
 

ljfa

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I love complicated and complex. Which FTB modpacks have Metallurgy in them? Do any of them have it? Just the 1.7 packs please, I like to stay as current and up-to-date as possible.
I was referring to metallurgy and alloying in real world. I actually never used the Metallurgy mod so that's another interesting thing.