Those little things that irk you about Minecraft
- Thread starter Ripley
- Start date
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Both are lossless. Same with BC Kinesis Pipes. In fact, out of the main competitors, only IC2 and UE have power loss still, and UE has it due to it's power being based more on real life electricity then videogame logic. IC2 still has it due to IC2 being a relic of a bygone era.
I stand corrected. But still, they should give it more credit, maybe make a section for modpacks, and maybe a section for the modding wars that have happened, like the tinkers construct vs gregtech thing (not trying to revive old drama, but I think it would be pretty cool for the wikipedia users to read)
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Well as long as its
a) unbiased (which is impossible given its editable by anyone)
b) just states the facts (which can be easily twisted and rewrote to hide opinions)
c) provides actual reliable sources for said facts (very hard to do due to nature of said sources, and since WHEN did a wiki have reliable sources and information?)
Also as useful as such a thing could be (not just the greg "thing", theres a few others like the whole 'better with forge' debacle ect) It would just stir up a lot of problems and past issues that should of been buried and forgotten a long time ago.b) just states the facts (which can be easily twisted and rewrote to hide opinions)
c) provides actual reliable sources for said facts (very hard to do due to nature of said sources, and since WHEN did a wiki have reliable sources and information?)
If they make so only certain people can edit it, then biased crap shouldn't be a problem, it seems to work for the same-sex marriage page anyways. As for only the facts, if the thing is lock-mode only active trust-worthy people will be able to edit, and it would be smart to show things on both sides. Idk about sources, having a perfect source would be tough.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Even so, there's also a case for sensitivity to the mod authors involved.
I know a few who really won't appreciate a spotlight shining on such events- even if it was done for good intentions.
I know a few who really won't appreciate a spotlight shining on such events- even if it was done for good intentions.
This is just minecraft in general, losing your inventory when you die. Happens to me when I'm a long ways away from my base.
Idk, infinite bonemeal, blazepowder and stuff like that really break things.
Infinite bonemeal being from TE3 (white wool + pulve), Blaze power exploit was because of a cross mod interaction, and it really doesn't break anything... Do you even play with the mod?
Some people use multiable mods at once, you know? And infinite blaze rods/power means you infinite power, which is pretty OP to me.
Yeah, but can you even still make blaze rods from Blaze Dust? IIRC they disabled that ages ago.
They disabled that in 1.5. So xbony you do not have a good argument and TE can dupe ANY dye
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
To be honest- equivalent exchange (by its conceptual nature) will always cause exploits when paired with other mods.
And for the most part iron ore has a fairly flat value.
If we had something a little harder- like enderpearls.
Those things are pretty expensive and hard to get until you clear the end, then the value drops out.
How do you exchange for something that drops in value that much that fast? Let alone equivalently exchange for them.
I'm not saying its impossible to work this out, but you'll probably want dynamic EMC values that adjust to whats 'brought' and 'sold' through the equivalency system.
Its mostly down to designing a suitable EMC system to remove the worst of them, or make them non-viable.
By example- equivalency value of say ... iron ore.
In vanilla 1 ore = 1 ingot. (both say "64" why? I like 64. Its a nice number. Goes well with chips)
But in "basic modded", 1 ore = 2 ingots, and "advanced modded" 1 ore = 3 iron, 1 tin and 1 nickel.
Luckily the new equivalency API automatically adjusts for auto recipes (so a blaze rod is 6x the value of powder with IC2 installed)
However if
Iron ore is worth "64", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 4 ores)
Iron ore is worth "128", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 2 ores)
Iron ore is worth "256", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 1 ore)
But if you can equivalently turn Iron ore 256 into iron 128 + tin 64 and nickel 64, then why build super machine?
You could make it a lossy conversion so Iron ore 256 becomes 240, or 200, or 64. But if its lossy enough to prefer a super machine, then why call it equivalent?
You could also remove the EMC value from iron ore, but then why call it exchange?
But in "basic modded", 1 ore = 2 ingots, and "advanced modded" 1 ore = 3 iron, 1 tin and 1 nickel.
Luckily the new equivalency API automatically adjusts for auto recipes (so a blaze rod is 6x the value of powder with IC2 installed)
However if
Iron ore is worth "64", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 4 ores)
Iron ore is worth "128", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 2 ores)
Iron ore is worth "256", running a machine nets "128" and a super machine "256" (and 256 equates to 1 ore)
But if you can equivalently turn Iron ore 256 into iron 128 + tin 64 and nickel 64, then why build super machine?
You can skip the whole tech tree if needed.
You could also remove the EMC value from iron ore, but then why call it exchange?
And for the most part iron ore has a fairly flat value.
If we had something a little harder- like enderpearls.
Those things are pretty expensive and hard to get until you clear the end, then the value drops out.
How do you exchange for something that drops in value that much that fast? Let alone equivalently exchange for them.
I'm not saying its impossible to work this out, but you'll probably want dynamic EMC values that adjust to whats 'brought' and 'sold' through the equivalency system.
Say you have a quarry; you turn your cobble/junk into EMC and pull out diamonds.
The game would have to count the number of items in/out, and adjust the EMC values by a percentage of this.
The game would have to count the number of items in/out, and adjust the EMC values by a percentage of this.
So stone is worth "1", but after a few quarries its worth "0.3"
and diamond was worth "8000"- pull a few stacks out and its now "10000"
This isnt as simple as what it seems given you have mineral blocks, metal nuggets and 3000 different types of copper.and diamond was worth "8000"- pull a few stacks out and its now "10000"
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
I surrender, you win.
But still, turning the billion stacks of cobble from your new quarry into oh-so-many diamonds seems almost like an exploit to me. Or into iron or gold. And when the new EMC system is out, it'll take a long time to push out the exploits there.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Which I why I mentioned a dynamic EMC idea- each diamond you pull out costs [exponentially] more than the previous.
(a large server would make this mechanic very interesting, given different mod setups produce different 'waste' and need alternate resources.)
I guess if the conversion ratio (item X ->EMC-> item Y) was lossless, but the machine doing the conversion was inefficient/cost EMC and time to run.-this would rule out crafting conversions.
I guess the main issues are working out the initial EMC values, and how much every conversion adjusts the value.