Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[Eliav24]

There's a reason it's mentioned in the main screen splash text as more addictive than minecraft. Yeah.

Also, now that Modjam voting is over, we can safely cry about what mods we should have supported/made/destroyed and how great/worse this modjam had being.

 

[RedBoss]

If a mod that's only about a giant pig wins, don't blame mod jam, blame the voters.

 

[keybounce]

too late, I found the site a while bad, and someone already linked.
ran out of stuff relevant to my likes last week.
now I will merely only lose the occasional two hour block to it when I find something new to look up instead of 7 hours for several days straight.
that evil overlord list though. . .

Only 7 hours? Come back after a few days.

And, it's not an "Evil" list. Its a well-thought out list that should be approved by any 5 year old.

You know, the one on your advisory board that researches what not to do by watching television?

===

Important: Do not tell Jaded about that new mod that lets you customize things other than normal crafting recipes, or we'll have to, I don't know, use a mariculture fisher to get something out of a resonant ender pool that is then tossed through a sifter for our pearls.

 

[xbony2]

Some players I know consider anything that moves to be fair game for slaughter. Ticked me off so bad on the 1.5 server, we invited a couple of friends on and they proceeded to massacre half the nearby villages for no good reason.

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Heh. I'm a big fan of putting my quarrys above villages

 

[Dorque]

And, it's not an "Evil" list. Its a well-thought out list that should be approved by any 5 year old.

But it is actually called the "evil overlord list", that's the whole point.

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[keybounce]

Right. It's a good list for Evil Overlords; not an Evil list for Overlords.

So use Good tools for Evil purposes, it'll balance in the end

 

[Dorque]

Right. It's a good list for Evil Overlords; not an Evil list for Overlords.

So use Good tools for Evil purposes, it'll balance in the end

..... the Chaotic Neutral list?

No, sorry, that's Mr. Welch.

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[VapourDrive]

RWTema @Extra_Utilities · Jun 5
Added 'Energy extraction' pipes so that you can use one energy node for multiple generators.

RWTema @Extra_Utilities · Jun 5
I'm also increasing the internal buffer of the energy node, so now you can use just one to run your entire base.

RWTema @Extra_Utilities · Jun 5
A small tweak - if your holding a golden lasso while using the trading post, it will pick up the villager instead of trading with him.

Does anyone else seem to see a bit of a conflict between making things more convenient and adding legitimate gameplay? (Something like ExU often taking the convenience route)
This is one of the things that I struggle with, in pack making and also in the personal development of my mods - will it be worth adding more steps to try to increase the game-play that results or will people complain too much and turn to more convenient/cheaper options...

 

[Padfoote]

Does anyone else seem to see a bit of a conflict between making things more convenient and adding legitimate gameplay? (Something like ExU often taking the convenience route)
This is one of the things that I struggle with, in pack making and also in the personal development of my mods - will it be worth adding more steps to try to increase the game-play that results or will people complain too much and turn to more convenient/cheaper options...

I'm not sure how I'm liking these changes. They're cool, but seem to be far too convenient to add much to gameplay. The villager thing is a plus, as it makes grabbing a single villager far easier, but the energy node... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Zeeth_Kyrah]

I'm not sure how I'm liking these changes. They're cool, but seem to be far too convenient to add much to gameplay. The villager thing is a plus, as it makes grabbing a single villager far easier, but the energy node... I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Well, at this point, the energy node is basically an in-line energy storage cell, and this also reduces the number of ticking blocks in the system (EU pipes only do something when a node is traversing them). If you think of it this way, why would you bother with a TE hardened energy cell if you have an energy node (or two) in your pipe network? The node pulls energy from your generators, and delivers it to your other devices and systems in a highly effective manner (especially when a few speed upgrades have been added for faster network traversal), giving you an option which is very different from the standard, which is TE energy conduits. (I should note I haven't played with Ender IO, however.)

 

[Padfoote]

Well, at this point, the energy node is basically an in-line energy storage cell, and this also reduces the number of ticking blocks in the system (EU pipes only do something when a node is traversing them). If you think of it this way, why would you bother with a TE hardened energy cell if you have an energy node (or two) in your pipe network? The node pulls energy from your generators, and delivers it to your other devices and systems in a highly effective manner (especially when a few speed upgrades have been added for faster network traversal), giving you an option which is very different from the standard, which is TE energy conduits. (I should note I haven't played with Ender IO, however.)

I understand your point, but I haven't touched a "standard" power system in a while (been using RotaryCraft and ElectriCraft heavily), so I don't know how I feel about it just yet. I'd have to play around with it to really say if I like or dislike it.

It's a cool concept, but I feel it might make things a little too easy for me to enjoy it. Others probably will, and that's fine, I'm just not sold on how easy it appears.

 

[VapourDrive]

Well, at this point, the energy node is basically an in-line energy storage cell, and this also reduces the number of ticking blocks in the system (EU pipes only do something when a node is traversing them). If you think of it this way, why would you bother with a TE hardened energy cell if you have an energy node (or two) in your pipe network? The node pulls energy from your generators, and delivers it to your other devices and systems in a highly effective manner (especially when a few speed upgrades have been added for faster network traversal), giving you an option which is very different from the standard, which is TE energy conduits. (I should note I haven't played with Ender IO, however.)

The whole concept of completely intelligent power systems/transfer seems a little too hands-off for me. We have logic built into the game so that something like this is actually regulated by the player. This is one of the reasons why I like enderIO so much, while there are incredibly powerful tools at your fingertips, it doesn't have a strictly "plug-and-play" nature that some other mods have. Even the regulation of BC kinesis pipes seems a little too far for me; the engines really shouldn't get power requested down the pipe and automatically turn on - that was what we had the pipe wire for...
That being said, in many cases, having something more simple often means that it is easier on the game:
Realistic nature -> Complexity -> Overhead -> Tears of server owners

 

[Padfoote]

That being said, in many cases, having something more simple often means that it is easier on the game:
Realistic nature -> Complexity -> Overhead -> Tears of server owners

If he's going for a reduced performance impact, then I can get behind that for servers. But as I don't play on servers, I tend to do whatever I want until I either corrupt the world, or successfully melt my system trying to run it. In this case, while nice for servers and lower end systems, I think I'll stick with a wall of batteries and a central control system for my power gen.

 

[casilleroatr]

The whole concept of completely intelligent power systems/transfer seems a little too hands-off for me. We have logic built into the game so that something like this is actually regulated by the player. This is one of the reasons why I like enderIO so much, while there are incredibly powerful tools at your fingertips, it doesn't have a strictly "plug-and-play" nature that some other mods have. Even the regulation of BC kinesis pipes seems a little too far for me; the engines really shouldn't get power requested down the pipe and automatically turn on - that was what we had the pipe wire for...
That being said, in many cases, having something more simple often means that it is easier on the game:
Realistic nature -> Complexity -> Overhead -> Tears of server owners

Refreshing to hear someone say that the MJ system is too convenient .

At any rate, I think that there is room in modded minecraft for a transfer system that simply aims to be as convenient as possible. There are plenty of mods that add more complicated stuff to sink your teeth into (I know you know that, so I hope you don't think I am sniping).

 

[RedBoss]

Any convenience or ease he's adding to the mod is completely balanced by the tedium of the new QED system.

 

[Zeeth_Kyrah]

Any convenience or ease he's adding to the mod is completely balanced by the tedium of the new QED system.

Not necessarily. But there are some new and clever mechanics, like auto-crafting using multiple, separate inventories spaced physically in the shape of the recipe. With filter pipes to fill them, suddenly you never, ever worry about having your cyclic assembler's inventory fill with one part faster than with others (causing it to no longer have space to accept that other part for the recipe).

I can't say that adding convenience to energy mechanics in a way which reduces overall cost (the actual cost of energy nodes has gone up) balances having to have a lot of Ender Energy nodes powering the QED, however. I might as well just have one and run it off a survivalist's generator directly, if I want tedium, darnit (I can run the thing off blocks of coal, almost 4.5 hours between refueling, letting me set-and-forget). If you want a fast QED, presumably that's a lot of ender pearls to get, especially if you don't have the mindset necessary to go build a mob farm in the End. Thus using EU with other mods like MFR, letting us auto-spawn and auto-kill endermen to help cut that cost significantly.

Heck, I can use an auto-enchanter (set to level 1 enchants) on wooden shovels. You don't actually have to enchant books to make magic wood as long as you have something enchanted in those four crafting slots! Now there's automation: auto-crafting all the components for an ender quarry using the output from a mob farm and a laser drill (powered by pink and culinary generators if you like).

 

[Democretes]

Any convenience or ease he's adding to the mod is completely balanced by the tedium of the new QED system.

Balance does not equal tedium. As a developer, even for something as simple as Minecraft mods, you learn this quickly by playing with your own creations. I haven't played with the new QED system too much, so take my opinion with pinch of salt.

In Technomancy, Magic Coils originally used nitor. These coils are used in quite a few recipes and were a good balance point for those recipes. The original recipe for the Magic Coil was a fairly good recipe for balance. Not too cheap, not too expensive. The problem lied with the fact that making nitor without an Auto-Crucible was a massive pain in the arse and I couldn't stand making more than 3 or 4 coils. You would have to create a Thaumium ingot and two Nitor per coil. Plain and simple, it was absolutely boring. I really couldn't stand it. I had to change the recipe so that I could actually play my own mod without wanting to just spawn stuff in.

When the end goal isn't worth the trek to get there, then all balance is thrown out the window and the goal is no longer worthwhile.

 

[Dorque]

Easier on the server, and easier sometimes on those of us who either don't want to or weren't cut out by nature to build complex switching systems. You try explaining to my friend's wife how to work pipe wire gates, and why she should, and I'll be over here waiting

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[RedBoss]

Balance does not equal tedium. As a developer, even for something as simple as Minecraft mods, you learn this quickly by playing with your own creations. I haven't played with the new QED system too much, so take my opinion with pinch of salt.

When the end goal isn't worth the trek to get there, then all balance is thrown out the window and the goal is no longer worthwhile.

You can read about it in this link and have visuals. http://imgur.com/a/I7Hcd
Suffice to say that items like the magnum torch and ender quarry now have to be crafted via the qed. The QED requires a BC laser type infrastructure that is slow. Even with a lot of them, the crafting is described as slow. It definitely adds tedium and narrow focused infrastructure to existing items. It also adds time as a gating factor.

I know the system will most likely be used for crafting new items, but I'm not a fan of systems like this.

 

[KillerRamer]

I have to ask... What gameplay was there in making hundreds of those danm nodes? You would waist so many materials installing upgrades to pull out energy.. The only reason I even could attempt to bother with making them over conduits in one of my playthroughs, was thanks to Vazkii's EE addon which brought back the condensor... This is a pritty darn good chang if you ask me... And before you go on about how easy tenma's making power transfer, Think about how extra utilities pipes REEEEALLY work... They search a network and look for any socket to place power into... Having a central spot to draw, and distribute the power, is just a massive save on resources... The amount of redstone and gold you spend boosting one is already pritty high... It already points out the highest tier conduit as being the cheaper option... but they have a larger amount of power extraction aswell. And can send more power through the system...Albiet slower depending on how large this system is. Tenma's balance comes into play through a systems size, the bigger it is, and more widespread it is, the less efficient it will be, and them more upgrades you'll need to place in order to compensate.