Really stupid things that people have said about Modded MC(Off topicness makes moderators tired)

[SynfulChaot]

Well, my new version checker is getting so much hate that I got an automated "you got downvoted a lot, you might want to be careful" message on reddit...

Most of it comes not from "I have a good reason not to update" people but from "making us update is wrong" people, including someone from these very forums...

If you truly believe that the majority that don't want to update don't have a good reason to, then I don't think you understood anything most people were saying in that thread. I'd not hesitate to say that a majority that dislike it play modpacks and/or play on servers and don't want to be nagged every time they connect to their server of choice just because the modpack they use doesn't have your newest version.

 

[Reika]

If you truly believe that the majority that don't want to update don't have a good reason to, then I don't think you understood anything most people were saying in that thread. I'd not hesitate to say that a majority that dislike it play modpacks and/or play on servers and don't want to be nagged every time they connect to their server of choice just because the modpack they use doesn't have your newest version.

And what if I told you literally every mod version I have ever released has fixed at least one major bug and/or exploit and/or performance issue in the previous version(s), some of which are as severe as world corruption or rapid item duplication?

Or that most of the "design hate" RC gets (that is, people complaining that the mod is broken, laggy, or poorly balanced) comes from people using out of date versions (most commonly v7, v14, v19 (especially), and v23, all from Horizons, TechWorld, and Monster) and whose arguments are nullified by newer versions they cannot be assed into trying (and they are often unaware exist)? And that these people often go posting all over their forums, reddit, and other sites, and even today I see people saying things like "let's not add RC, it has a bug."?

Or that most servers and pack makers I talk to use old versions not because they prefer them but because they see updating as too much work, especially given that - a very common statement - their players struggle finding their My Documents folder, let alone installing a mod?

Or that most people willingly using old versions have absolutely no issues reporting bugs in those versions, without providing any hint of a version number, and that only my memory allows me to know it was fixed in a previous version?

Or that there is a strong positive correlation between "eh, let's not update, too much work" people and those that whine about other things like ID conflicts?


Now, I had another idea: What if the marquee faded away after a minute or two, just to ensure the player knows?

 

[SynfulChaot]

And what if I told you literally every mod version I have ever released has fixed at least one major bug and/or exploit and/or performance issue in the previous version(s), some of which are as severe as world corruption or rapid item duplication?

Then there's still the reality of if that particular bug/exploit is affecting the modpack or server in question. Not all are fixing world corruption level issues, after all. There's also the reality of how long it takes to properly test a mod against the rest of a modpack and get it available for users to download, as well as server owners updating their servers to said new modpack version.

And that's not even talking about modpacks that are no longer actively supported, but that are still being actively used.

Or that most of the "design hate" RC gets (that is, people complaining that the mod is broken, laggy, or poorly balanced) comes from people using out of date versions (most commonly v7, v14, v19 (especially), and v23, all from Horizons, TechWorld, and Monster) and whose arguments are nullified by newer versions they cannot be assed into trying?

People 'design hate' everything for *something*. No matter what you do, you won't please everyone.

 

[Reika]

Then there's still the reality of if that particular bug/exploit is affecting the modpack or server in question. Not all are fixing world corruption level issues, after all.

Performance bugs affect every server by their very nature, and the crashes are land mines every server is vulnerable to.

There's also the reality of how long it takes to properly test a mod against the rest of a modpack and get it available for users to download, as well as server owners updating their servers to said new modpack version.

Hence the two-week grace period I proposed, yet got more hate for than when there was none at all (a pattern which reminds me of the original "modification rule exceptions" reactions).

And that's not even talking about modpacks that are no longer actively supported, but that are still being actively used.

Then I doubly expect the players to update as the versions fall further and further behind.

If your argument is that some people are not capable of updating, that some people simply cannot manage it, then while I somewhat agree, it does not affect my point; if someone is that incompetent, I have no sympathy brought about by their incompetence. That is not just me and mods, that is how I actually am ("No, I don't feel sorry for that person who was so glued to their phone they walked into traffic"/"No, that person who was jogging down the tracks and was hit by a train has no sympathy from me.").

People 'design hate' everything for *something*. No matter what you do, you won't please everyone.

Maybe, but the kind of things people complain about make it clear that old versions please noone.

 

[SynfulChaot]

Or that there is a strong positive correlation between "eh, let's not update, too much work" people and those that whine about other things like ID conflicts?

Well then those users lose their right to complain, now don't they?

Now, I had another idea: What if the marquee faded away after a minute or two, just to ensure the player knows?

It's still something that the end user of an actively updated modpack doesn't *need* to know. They're not playing just your mod. They're playing the modpack. That's information for the modpack maintainer.

Performance bugs affect every server by their very nature, and the crashes are land mines every server is vulnerable to.

Exactly. And if it's seen as important enough to fix by the maintainers then it will be fixed.

Hence the two-week grace period I proposed, yet got more hate for than when there was none at all (a pattern which reminds me of the original "modification rule exceptions" reactions).

I didn't see that gain *more* hate. It just didn't ameliorate the hate as it didn't alleviate the concerns in the slightest.

Then I doubly expect the players to update as the versions fall further and further behind.

In an actively updated modpack then that's likely to happen. I know I don't always ingest every update as it comes as there are simply too many.

If your argument is that some people are not capable of updating, that some people simply cannot manage it, then while I somewhat agree, it does not affect my point; if someone is that incompetent, I have no sympathy brought about by their incompetence. That is not just me and mods, that is how I actually am ("No, I don't feel sorry for that person who was so glued to their phone they walked into traffic"/"No, that person who was jogging down the tracks and was hit by a train has no sympathy from me.").

It's not that people aren't capable or that they can't manage it. That's *never* been something I've said, which you would know if you actually *read* anything I said. It's that it's not feasible for modpacks and servers to ingest every update as it comes out. Testing needs to happen.

And again, we're skirting the subject of legacy modpacks that are still used, especially on servers.

Maybe, but the kind of things people complain about make it clear that old versions please noone.

They please people that want to play but are fine with not having the newest and 'greatest'.

 

[Vazkii]

Well then those users lose their right to complain, now don't they?

They still complain.

 

[SynfulChaot]

They still complain.

Of course they do. But they have no solid ground to stand on. They can be freely ignored.

 

[Geckogamer]

Of course they do. But they have no solid ground to stand on. They can be freely ignored.

Ignoring +128 complaints isn't that easy

send from a thing

 

[Reika]

It's still something that the end user of an actively updated modpack doesn't *need* to know. They're not playing just your mod. They're playing the modpack. That's information for the modpack maintainer.

And how does one make a message that is only visible to pack makers?

Exactly. And if it's seen as important enough to fix by the maintainers then it will be fixed.

*Important enough to fix and worth their time. Too many people are lazy.

I didn't see that gain *more* hate. It just didn't ameliorate the hate as it didn't alleviate the concerns in the slightest.

You cannot see my PMs.

They please people that want to play but are fine with not having the newest and 'greatest'.

You keep saying that when the reality is less "not newest and greatest" but more "don't touch this if you don't want to crash".

Of course they do. But they have no solid ground to stand on. They can be freely ignored.

This comes back to the discussion we had before about still having to spend the time dealing with people, and this is 50% of my bug reports, orders of magnitude larger than the people I dealt with on the topic of mod breaking.

Also, I am not willing to make everyone who does not supply a version go back and get it, because most users, latest or not, are not willing to do that and will just abandon the report, and I am not willing to slow my bugfixing that much.

And that does not even address the issue about users lying about their version when they know they are using an old version and I refuse to support it, which has happened to me.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

What about dropping the version number in the crash reports?

(it'll knock out a few of the side problems anyway)​

 

[CoolSquid]

And how does one make a message that is only visible to pack makers?

I have a technique for that.

What about dropping the version number in the crash reports?

(it'll knock out a few of the side problems anyway)​

Version numbers are already in crash reports.

 

[SynfulChaot]

And how does one make a message that is only visible to pack makers?

Simple. The modpack maker or server administrator turns the reminders back on for themselves so they still know.

*Important enough to fix and worth their time. Too many people are lazy.

You posit laziness on the part of modpack makers just because they don't jump when you update? Sorry, but modpacks often contain upwards of 100 mods. My own has about 80. If we had to jump every time every mod updated then that's no longer a hobby, my friend, nor feasible for an individual to do if they actually have a job.

You keep saying that when the reality is less "not newest and greatest" but more "don't touch this if you don't want to crash".

If the old version was that unstable then it wouldn't be used at alll. And if people don't update then they're taking that risk of their own volition and have noone to blame but themselves if it explodes in their face.

This comes back to the discussion we had before about still having to spend the time dealing with people, and this is 50% of my bug reports. Also, I am not willing to make everyone who does not supply a version go back and get it, because most users, latest or not, are not willing to do that, and I am not willing to slow my bugfixing that much.

And that does not even address the issue about users lying about their version when they know they are using an old version, which has happened to me.

Then ignore those bug reports. If they don't want to do their due diligence, then you don't need to do it for them.

And if they lie? I think Celestial had a great solution for that.

I think we're getting wildly off topic, though. Perhaps we should shift this discussion elsewhere?

 

[Reika]

Simple. The modpack maker or server administrator turns the reminders back on for themselves so they still know.

You say that for many updating is too much of a hassle, but think that setting a config back and forth is not...?

If the old version was that unstable then it wouldn't be used at alll. And if people don't update then they're taking that risk of their own volition and have noone to blame but themselves if it explodes in their face.

Again, you underestimate apathy.

Then ignore those bug reports. If they don't want to do their due diligence, then you don't need to do it for them.

Then my bugfixing speed is 10% of what it used to be, and bugs go months unfixed. Not acceptable.

I think Celestial had a great solution for that.

Version numbers are already in crash reports.

Most users post only the stacktrace, not the entire log.

 

[SynfulChaot]

You say that for many updating is too much of a hassle, but think that setting a config back and forth is not...?

No. The version of the modpack I push to users has will be set to not show once the modpack is closer to being finalized. The version *I* will run won't have had them turned off in the first place. Not that that matters, as I tend to notice the updates though the forums here before seeing the reminder alert in-game.

It's kind of amuzing because some of my users are already asking what those pesky things mean or if they matter. But they know to bring it up to *me*, not to harass you mod authors.

Again, you underestimate apathy.

No I don't. I know apathy well. But what I *said* is that if they're that apathetic about it then that's risk they're taking and the *responsibility* is on them. Apathy has consequences.

And you disregard perfectly valid reasons people have for not jumping on your updates the instant you update them.

Most users post only the stacktrace, not the entire log.

Then require the entire log. It's no harder to get than the stacktrace.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Then require the entire log. It's no harder to get than the stacktrace.

People will whine about that too
Could you write the version number to the stacktrace?

 

[Reika]

People will whine about that too
Could you write the version number to the stacktrace?

I doubt it. Stacktrace generation is native Java.

 

[CoolSquid]

I doubt it. Stacktrace generation is native Java.

I guess you could hack Java, but that would probably be a bad idea. You can do it for custom exceptions though, by overriding getStackTrace().

 

[Vazkii]

You can use FMLLog.addHandler to add a handler to the log and add something to it if you get a crash I believe.

 

[Hyperme]

Again, you underestimate apathy.

Except if the users are as lazy and dumb as you say they are, no amount of poking and prodding will make them update if they don't want to. Short of outright disabling the game if the mods are so many versions behind (do not do this) there is no incentive good enough for some players.

 

[Eruantien]

Or, you could add something super-awesome and sheeple-magnetizing in each update, like:

• v1 - added orange slimeballs! (closes #1-10)
• v2 - added cheap diamonds! (closes #11-24)
• v3 - THE AWESOMEIUM ORE UPDATE!!! (closes #25-37)
• VERSION 4.0 -- THE UNBELIEVABLE UPDATE!!!!!! (closes #38-97)

... has anybody else ever noted that adding more exclamation points to a youtube video title doesn't actually make it sound more enthusiastic? It just kind of makes it sound like it's supposed to be read "LUCKY BLOCKS MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!". (That's a short "o".)