I'm sort of planning to cheat the first Portal Gun in (unless of course I find one in the process of early dungeon delving) simply because of your point about it being a time saver, but any I use later in automation\processing etc I will make legitimately.
Portal gun insane recipe
- Thread starter neofrost01
- Start date
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Done. Well, actually I deleted the items used in the old recipe from my inventory with NEI, then cheated one in. Couldn't stand to move my cows around with wheat anymore.
The recipe is still the same. No black holes required to throw cows at the moon.
Note, this may change, but I believe he wants to make the low tier gravity gun decently accessible but maybe a little less powerful (like durability or fuel powered), but the higher tier is going to be incredibly hard to build.
I think that the old recipe was too easy, you have to do something epic to gain the power of teleport. I don't like the fact that there is fuel AND expensive recipe, in my opinion portal gun is balanced with the nether-star recipe, i don't see any need for fuel after you managed to kill the wither.
Creative has no such limitations, and is already provided as a game mode. This is where I think you are missing the point - the thread is about a recipe which people (and the code author) feel is somewhere on a sliding scale of <--too easy----just right---- too hard--->, like hundreds of other recipes across various mods in the pack. The theme of progression (vice creative) is a core concept of most of the mods, and even in *gasp* vanilla.
I was merely pointing out that joining said discussion, which revolves around recipe balance and progression, and stating odd things like..
..is not only absurd (bordering on flamebait), but that you yourself do the same thing you decry. The minute you want a block to cost more than 2 sticks, guess what .. balance! There is no need to objectively define it, because that isn't the point. The discussion is about where people think the difficulty should be in relation to *everything else in the game system*. Subjective opinions on how easy/difficult making blocks should be vary wildly, hence discussion. The fact that the game is "against yourself" or not is completely irrelevant. But as someone who helped design games, you already knew that
Any Creative and survival. Everything about Minecraft is the epitome of a sandbox because of the mods you can add and the different ways you can use the mods alone and in conjuncture. Not to mention there is literally not a single valid reason to not have multiple recipes other than the author being purely lazy(Not saying he is now but if he outwardly says he won't then he is). Just taking an average of all the opinions of everyone and then making a recipe based on that opinion only caters to a small amount of people.
The only thing absurd about it is that you find it invalid(Not to mention to fall to using a word such as flamebait it a real discussion is pathetic and if you get angry by things I say feel free to no longer post). No it's not balance if I want a recipe to cost more; it means I want more of a challenge. Making something challenging is not balance; it is simply making something challenging for the sake of it. Not everyone seeks that. The difficulty against everything else in the pack has as many variations as the number of people that use the pack. Taking an average of that and basing a recipe off of that, again, is not balance; it is an average opinion. Oh and being a game that you play alone, even in SMP for the most part, makes a very big impact on what you can or cannot do in terms of game development...is not only absurd (bordering on flamebait), but that you yourself do the same thing you decry. The minute you want a block to cost more than 2 sticks, guess what .. balance! There is no need to objectively define it, because that isn't the point. The discussion is about where people think the difficulty should be in relation to *everything else in the game system*. Subjective opinions on how easy/difficult making blocks should be vary wildly, hence discussion. The fact that the game is "against yourself" or not is completely irrelevant. But as someone who helped design games, you already knew that
The problem with the way you see the game is that there is not just one option to take. The mod creator can cater to anyone he wants to and even those he doesn't want to. If he chooses to stick to a single recipe then he will be lazy and terrible mod creator from then on.
You're gonna have to explain what you think balance is then, because to me that's the definition of balance: Adjusting the difficulty of various gameplay elements.
Adjusting them for what purpose is what makes something balance or not. For an fps for example it would be making it so no one gun absolutely dominated, or one side of the map gave too much of an advantage.
E: Balance is literally balance. An equilibrium, and no such equilibrium exists in MC.
I'd just like to mention that after having installed the "Hostile Drops" mod, I found the current portal gun recipe to be quite appropriate. Its not insanely difficult to make a nether star, but it does require quite a bit of gunpowder. And gunpowder can be crafted with redstone and coal. It also takes quite a lot of waiting for the grinder to do its thing. You guys might want to check out Hostile Drops.
That, and also let us change the durability/if there is durability/hardcore or original recipe in the config file.
so I heard in slow's stream yesterday that the long fall boots have also gotten a new recipe. they still do not take any damage, but now require 4 diamonds to craft.
according to slow the armor strength of the long fall boots are as good as diamond boots, thus they should require the same amount of diamonds.
according to slow the armor strength of the long fall boots are as good as diamond boots, thus they should require the same amount of diamonds.
Hoff, you couldn't be more correct in your analysis of this recipe. For those who wish to argue that this recipe is balanced need to note a few things. First the nether star is one of the few items in game that are drop only items. As stated before, every pair of stationary portals requires another nether star to create another set. This does not even cover crafting other guns to provide different linked portals. Now to even get a stab at obtaining a nether star; one must first collect three wither skeleton skulls in the nether. The wither skeletons have only a 2.5% chance to drop a skull on death. Depending on your luck, you would need to kill anywhere from 3 to 120+ wither skeletons, just to obtain the skulls necessary to summon the wither. This doesn't even address the challenges of locating nether fortresses or wither skeletons within the nether. OR the proximity of your nether portal to the closest nether fortress. Why not just use a jetpack?
Now for issue of finding it as a rare drop within dungeon loot tables. Which dungeon loot? Is this within any chest, such as those found in random monster spawner rooms, or specifically within abandoned mines or strongholds? Being as each world only spawns three strongholds if it is the latter then the chances could be even less than the time needed to acquire the wither skeleton skulls. Or if you already discovered the strongholds within your world and opened these chests.
Now even if the mod author wished to make the recipe all diamond and emerald blocks, I could understand that, or adding a new block which consisted of 9 ender pearls and required 9 of these. But to use one of the two most difficult items to obtain in game, and the only one with any applicable use(beacons). Now if like a previous poster stated; you can just "cheat one into your game" not if you are on a SMP server where creative mode and /give items is unavailable. Or if someone is playing legitimately in single player without cheats.
Now this gets to another comment that stated the original author never intended for this to be used in survival maps, if so who cares? How does the intended audience justify measures to make a mod that adds a "novelty" item to the game prohibitively difficult to craft. Am I just complaining because I can't just get it for free? Not at all I have spent months on my server with a friend, not cutting any corners and without access to creative mode or cheats. we have crafted multiple gravitation suits (mod by SeNtiMeL), dozens of compact solar arrays and over 200 MFSU's. Now I am, if I was able to, just cheat myself in a item? This also doesn't address the issue of unforeseen deaths. What happen's when your jetpack runs out and you die in a pool of lava? Where's my portal gun now? Well I can get X mod and then I can craft it easier. I know of mods that would allow me to do just that, and yet its the same thing as cheating to add a mod for the express purpose of getting one item.
Lastly, This isn't an MMORPG and it will never be one, therefore the argument of overpowered and under-powered is non sequitur. Having beaten the game and sat through that heinous excuse for a story if it was intended to be anything other than a joke. The only end goal in minecraft is to create things. No matter how many "Achievement Gets:" you acquire there is no Tier, class, or rating-- You simply shake the virtual Etch-A-Sketch and start over. Therefore, smugness and elitism have no place in a sandbox game where, as Hoff put it, " you are competing with no one but yourself."
Now for issue of finding it as a rare drop within dungeon loot tables. Which dungeon loot? Is this within any chest, such as those found in random monster spawner rooms, or specifically within abandoned mines or strongholds? Being as each world only spawns three strongholds if it is the latter then the chances could be even less than the time needed to acquire the wither skeleton skulls. Or if you already discovered the strongholds within your world and opened these chests.
Now even if the mod author wished to make the recipe all diamond and emerald blocks, I could understand that, or adding a new block which consisted of 9 ender pearls and required 9 of these. But to use one of the two most difficult items to obtain in game, and the only one with any applicable use(beacons). Now if like a previous poster stated; you can just "cheat one into your game" not if you are on a SMP server where creative mode and /give items is unavailable. Or if someone is playing legitimately in single player without cheats.
Now this gets to another comment that stated the original author never intended for this to be used in survival maps, if so who cares? How does the intended audience justify measures to make a mod that adds a "novelty" item to the game prohibitively difficult to craft. Am I just complaining because I can't just get it for free? Not at all I have spent months on my server with a friend, not cutting any corners and without access to creative mode or cheats. we have crafted multiple gravitation suits (mod by SeNtiMeL), dozens of compact solar arrays and over 200 MFSU's. Now I am, if I was able to, just cheat myself in a item? This also doesn't address the issue of unforeseen deaths. What happen's when your jetpack runs out and you die in a pool of lava? Where's my portal gun now? Well I can get X mod and then I can craft it easier. I know of mods that would allow me to do just that, and yet its the same thing as cheating to add a mod for the express purpose of getting one item.
Lastly, This isn't an MMORPG and it will never be one, therefore the argument of overpowered and under-powered is non sequitur. Having beaten the game and sat through that heinous excuse for a story if it was intended to be anything other than a joke. The only end goal in minecraft is to create things. No matter how many "Achievement Gets:" you acquire there is no Tier, class, or rating-- You simply shake the virtual Etch-A-Sketch and start over. Therefore, smugness and elitism have no place in a sandbox game where, as Hoff put it, " you are competing with no one but yourself."
These two specifically I'd like to address. First half, random monster spawn rooms. On the DW20 map, I've found 3 so far underground in dungeons, Peabody's, a blank one, and a bacon gun. Note, I've done a LOT of dungeon seeking, so probaby about 4 hours worth of spelunking. Found none in blacksmith chests or barrow mounds so far.
As to the latter half, what 'Never intended it to be used in survival maps' means is actually 'Never expected it to be so popular in survival'. Got to listen to when he was explaining the mod, originally it was intended to be just for making portal maps. It was also only coded for SSP. Since he finally decided to completely redo the mod, he also wanted the recipe to reflect the usefulness of the mod. It was a simple recipe originally because he didn't see it very useful in non-portal map situations. Go figure it ends up being one of the handiest tools out there.
Lastly, seriously, it's just a nether star, there's a thread in here that is a wither farm. Not wither skeleton farm, wither farm. For me it's more annoying to collect the ender pearls.
Oh really? Do you have any idea how many skulls they had there? Do you have any idea how many combined hours it took who-knows-how-many of them to gather that many skulls? Besides that if you watch the video the person describes how, even he, feels that gathering resources should be less focused on and more about being creative with what you're given.