Placeholder Mods

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

I believe its time that we start to remove mods from packs, now that their superior counterparts have been ported.
Examples: Refined Storage, Refined Storage was developed as a placeholder for Applied Energistics until the mod got ported. Now that the mod has been ported, I think it's time to due away with RS.
OpenGlider and Gravestones, OpenBlocks has been ported, it fills both of these things, while adding, among other things, trophies, tanks, xp drains.
Some of the things in Actually Additions can be removed, now that MFR is officially out for 1.10.2 use, such as the Lava Factory, Farmer, etc.
TL : DR Mods have officially been ported, it's time to remove their placeholders.

 

[MikW]

I think they can stay. RS vs AE2, both are very similar, but have some differences. RS is more simple, easier to use and get, but AE2 is a lot better for advanced stuff.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

And then what happens to people's worlds/servers when they update the pack and certain mods are no longer in it?

 

[Hambeau]

Don't forget the people who prefer Refined Storage to AE, in your example.

Until someone develops a way to select mod options in the same pack, I say include both, at least in Kitchen Sink packs.

It's fine to go with one mod or another for quest/progression/themed packs... At that point it is well within the game atmosphere to only have a single way to do something.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

Don't forget the people who prefer Refined Storage to AE, in your example.

Until someone develops a way to select mod options in the same pack, I say include both, at least in Kitchen Sink packs.

It's fine to go with one mod or another for quest/progression/themed packs... At that point it is well within the game atmosphere to only have a single way to do something.

What? Why in the world would people prefer Refined Storage to AE2? I don't understand, AE2 is so much better developed. Along with having much better systems. Refined Storage's autocrafting lacks complexity, which such a powerfully tool needs. AE2 has p2p's, interfaces, etc. Which is why most packs use AE2. The simple systems are easier to learn and their are less rules, but for higher skilled players it provides so much to do in terms of automation.

 

[Inaeo]

I don't look at RS or AA as being placeholders. They may have filled voids that more popular mods which were not released yet used to fill, but each one does so in a different manner while bringing it's own strengths to the table.

RS is based off the AE1 system that many people fell in love with and prefer, where AE2 serves much of the same purpose, while requiring a much different approach. Many people are turned off by aspects of AE2, notably the world gen meteors, seed crafting mechanic, and the channel system. There is a higher degree of complexity due to some of these design choices, but some people prefer less complexity in their item storage system. Frankly, the fact that we have a choice at all is fantastic. If you prefer one over the other, you can manually edit your pack to suit your taste, but allow others to make up their own minds.

AA is not a placeholder for MFR at all. It does cover some of the same functionality, but it is a much more involved mod, particularly when it comes to crafting mechanics. It allows for possibilities that MFR doesn't, while not doing other things that MRF makes simple. The two could coexist in a pack without stepping on each other's toes just as simply as either could exist without the other.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

I don't look at RS or AA as being placeholders. They may have filled voids that more popular mods which were not released yet used to fill, but each one does so in a different manner while bringing it's own strengths to the table.

RS is based off the AE1 system that many people fell in love with and prefer, where AE2 serves much of the same purpose, while requiring a much different approach. Many people are turned off by aspects of AE2, notably the world gen meteors, seed crafting mechanic, and the channel system. There is a higher degree of complexity due to some of these design choices, but some people prefer less complexity in their item storage system. Frankly, the fact that we have a choice at all is fantastic. If you prefer one over the other, you can manually edit your pack to suit your taste, but allow others to make up their own minds.

AA is not a placeholder for MFR at all. It does cover some of the same functionality, but it is a much more involved mod, particularly when it comes to crafting mechanics. It allows for possibilities that MFR doesn't, while not doing other things that MRF makes simple. The two could coexist in a pack without stepping on each other's toes just as simply as either could exist without the other.

I said some of the things.

 

[Inaeo]

I said some of the things.

Indeed, but you called for it's removal (or at least parts of it, which seems like more work) due to the overlap in function. If we were to remove mods due to function overlaps, we would end up with a very light pack.

 

[Henry Link]

Realistically, all of those mods have their place. Especially in custom themed packs. But blanket remove out of kitchen sink pack is also a bad idea unless it is new pack. Removing mods is always bad on existing worlds.

 

[Cpt_gloval]

Agreed, by this logic lets get rid of Thermal* mods, IC@ covers all that, as well as EnderIO, Meckinsm, TechReborn, ..,..,..,..,..,..

Real fast you end up with an ancient Buckit server running Minecraft 1.25, which there's nothing wrong with. I have fond memories of those days.

As stated before, most of the mods you listed are not "place holders" they are their own, fleshed out mods that happen to do some of the same things as other mods. There are a very few mods that were created just to replicate the function of a single item/machine of a mod, Ranged Pumps for the ExU1 Pump, OpenGlider for OpenBlocks Glider, Simple Elevators for the OpenBlocks elevator. Those few will probably no longer be used by the majority of the community because we want all the other toys of say OpenBlocks. But they will still find use from time to time because custom mod pack X wants an elevator block but does not want to give the rest of the advantages of OpenBlocks.

The OP comment of removing them is much the same as saying, I found a new place to buy bread so I'm going to go burn down the Panera down the street since they are redundant.

 

[APEX_gaming]

What? Why in the world would people prefer Refined Storage to AE2? I don't understand, AE2 is so much better developed. Along with having much better systems. Refined Storage's autocrafting lacks complexity, which such a powerfully tool needs. AE2 has p2p's, interfaces, etc. Which is why most packs use AE2. The simple systems are easier to learn and their are less rules, but for higher skilled players it provides so much to do in terms of automation.

let's see, there's no type limit on disks (does anyone even like that?) there's no running around hunting meteors, or to be more specific, no print repeats, no channels, built in fluid storage, less annoying circuit production (seriously, why can I only put 1 recipe's worth or materials in a t once as opposed to a while stack?) and the fact that machines from RS double as cables for transmiting data and power.

the only thing that say that AE2 does over RS is the fact that it uses multi-blocks, so you can have things like storage busses multiple times on the same block.
also, by your logic we should do away with Applied energetics 2 and bring in Applied Llamagistics 2, which is literally just AE2 with built in fluid storage.

also, while i'm here I may as well bring up that AE2 isn't that complex, the item type limit on disks only makes higher tier disks redundant, and the channel system is easily resolved by placing a controller and not crossing the wires. it's really just more of an annoyance than anything. though I will say that the P2P channels could be useful, it would probably be easier to set up an ender chest or tank for items and fluids. quite a few mods add wireless redstone, which functions beyond the reach of your AE2 system, and RS does have interfaces, you just don't need them as much because there main use in AE2 is auto crafting. not to mention the other useful tools RS adds, such as the portable grid, which is like a backpack that you can use to bring any single storage disk with you, the reader/writer, which sounds like a universal P2P tunnel, though I may be wrong, and the ability to upgrade the destroyer with fortune/silk touch, excellent for using with stone generators, orechids, or the mining lens

 

[Ommina]

I'm wholly convinced that none of the mods listed were written by their respective authors to be 'placeholders' that will be only used until their 'superior counterparts' became available.

Am I willing to believe that some -- or even all -- of the mods listed were written to fill a niche left empty? You bet. So now we have both, and we, the players, are richer for it. To suggest that one or the other should be kicked the curb seems little more than silly.

After all -- if the goal is a carbon-copy of a 1.7.10 pack, why not just play a 1.7.10 pack?

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

I'm wholly convinced that none of the mods listed were written by their respective authors to be 'placeholders' that will be only used until their 'superior counterparts' became available.

Am I willing to believe that some -- or even all -- of the mods listed were written to fill a niche left empty? You bet. So now we have both, and we, the players, are richer for it. To suggest that one or the other should be kicked the curb seems little more than silly.

After all -- if the goal is a carbon-copy of a 1.7.10 pack, why not just play a 1.7.10 pack?

The goal is a copy of 1.7.10 packs with 1.10.2 mods added. All the things that I know with other things that are new.
These mods and features I mentioned, basically are wannabes of their bases. I will never use RS again. And I doubt most pack makers will either.

 

[APEX_gaming]

The goal is a copy of 1.7.10 packs with 1.10.2 mods added. All the things that I know with other things that are new.
These mods and features I mentioned, basically are wannabes of their bases. I will never use RS again. And I doubt most pack makers will either.

you'de be surprised, for exeprt packs, yes I imagine that would be the case sense AE2 can be much easier to balance around that, but in no way, shape or form is it going to just die. and I wouldn't be surprised if the reason a lot of people stick with AE2 is purely because they know it and don't relies how excepting RS is

EDIT: also, I feel I should bring up that AE2 has co-existed with RS ense November of 2016, I don't know about you, but if AE2 where to replace RS, I don't think it would have taken over 11 months to do so

 

[Inaeo]

The goal is a copy of 1.7.10 packs with 1.10.2 mods added. All the things that I know with other things that are new.
These mods and features I mentioned, basically are wannabes of their bases. I will never use RS again. And I doubt most pack makers will either.

If the goal is to replicate a 1.7 pack, you may be out of luck. Each version change, some mods get left behind (RIP Thaumcraft and the Reika Suite). Each version change, new mods rise to take the mantle left open. This happens every time, and every time we see this type of thread.

Sure, I love familiar things because I know what I'm doing and how I want to set things up - it makes me feel smart and confident. I love new things because they are exciting and different and that challenges my brain to find new ways to do old tricks. The thing is, if MFR is in every pack, I have little incentive to learn a new way to solve my problems, because I already have an easy, familiar answer. When these mods take a moment to update, I'm forced to learn the mods I would otherwise overlook, or lean harder on areas of mods I otherwise would have chosen to avoid. This is natural in the modded environment, but more importantly, it's good for me to be forced to change my habits.

Going back to the RS vs AE2 debate (there was a decent thread on the matter when AE2 caught up - worth the read, if you're interested), I enjoy each for different reasons, and I use both in different manners. I like the pure item and fluid storage from RS, and I use it for packs where I don't aim to have my storage mod control all the things. Typically, RS blends in better to a low/medium tech base better than the flashy AE2 tech, which is nice for some aesthetic choices.

AE2, on the other hand, is a mod I turn to to make a large scale, computer based build. It can do item storage, but it's power lies in tying that storage directly into production and crafting. It becomes the centerpiece of a build in ways that few mods can replicate, but the point is that sometimes I just don't need or want that. I'm not a big fan of the crystal growth mechanic, nor the meteors after that first "Woah, cool!"moment. I'm ok with channels, but mostly because there are so many ways to either make them a nonfactor or just cheese them completely (SSD comes to mind). Having an option for storage that avoids the factors I don't enjoy becomes a welcome change.

Point is, as always, different strokes for different folks. Options are good, even within the same pack.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

Another thing people forgot to add is, Add-on Mods. I have not seen any Refined Storage add-ons. Applied Energistics has Extra Cells along with Wireless Crafting Terminal.
Extra Cells adds a Walrus, which automatically makes it the best mod.

 

[Inaeo]

Another thing people forgot to add is, Add-on Mods. I have not seen any Refined Storage add-ons. Applied Energistics has Extra Cells along with Wireless Crafting Terminal.
Extra Cells adds a Walrus, which automatically makes it the best mod.

My main draw to Extra Cells is fluid handling - something that RS does out of the box.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

My main draw to Extra Cells is fluid handling - something that RS does out of the box.

Personally I've never found a use for Fluid Storage. I usually just use tanks and ender tanks. I did use fluid autocrafting once in Skyfactory. Autocraft treated wood.

 

[Cpt_gloval]

I know I prefer rs over ae2 when I'm trying to learn a new mod or do something new with a mod. Ae2s complexity becomes a nuisance I don't want when I'm just trying to get that new "thing" to work in a useful way.

But, just like Inaeo, sometimes I want to use ae2 so I can automate all the things and never have to look at my basement again.

Now that mfr is back online, fluid storage is almost required since we don't have any good large fluid tank solution right now. Keeping a good supply if mob juice and liquid xp in 2 formated drives that I can pull back out anywhere is awesome.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

I know I prefer rs over ae2 when I'm trying to learn a new mod or do something new with a mod. Ae2s complexity becomes a nuisance I don't want when I'm just trying to get that new "thing" to work in a useful way.

But, just like Inaeo, sometimes I want to use ae2 so I can automate all the things and never have to look at my basement again.

Now that mfr is back online, fluid storage is almost required since we don't have any good large fluid tank solution right now. Keeping a good supply if mob juice and liquid xp in 2 formated drives that I can pull back out anywhere is awesome.

"We don't have any large fluid tank solution right now" Extra Utils Demonicly Garguantan Drum. Quantum tank... Don't have any good fluid storage right now. This guy.