Oh how hyped I am... (Another 1.6.4 thread)

[Methusalem]

How did you adapt to the new energy system? The only way for me so far is to completely over dimension the main lines and to use transformers or transformer upgrades for every single (overclocked) machine.

Did you find another solution?

 

[GPuzzle]

My God, the new IC2 energy system is downright stupid.
Why? Let's check some other energy systems:
UE: Joules, but still old IC2 style.
MJ: you can make grids with it with no energy loss, but a set number of MJs/t
Old IC2: EU, grid-like until you reach the max reach of the cable.
New IC2: YOU CAN'T PLUG MORE THAN 1 GENERATOR INTO A BATBOX.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

My God, the new IC2 energy system is downright stupid.
Why? Let's check some other energy systems:
UE: Joules, but still old IC2 style.
MJ: you can make grids with it with no energy loss, but a set number of MJs/t
Old IC2: EU, grid-like until you reach the max reach of the cable.
New IC2: YOU CAN'T PLUG MORE THAN 1 GENERATOR INTO A BATBOX.

Wait,WHAT?!
I feel like a noob, but you CAN'T plug into more than one generator
My god...
Oh well, I have ICBM Atomic Science and Mekanism plus TC4 Buildcraft, Forestry, and Railcraft
I think im fine

 

[Tyrindor]

My God, the new IC2 energy system is downright stupid.
Why? Let's check some other energy systems:
UE: Joules, but still old IC2 style.
MJ: you can make grids with it with no energy loss, but a set number of MJs/t
Old IC2: EU, grid-like until you reach the max reach of the cable.
New IC2: YOU CAN'T PLUG MORE THAN 1 GENERATOR INTO A BATBOX.

I am actually worried about this and heard lots of complaints about it. I feel like i'm going to destroy many machines before I figure it out, debating on making a creative 1.6.4 map with IC2 just to mess around. The changes don't seem to be documented anywhere though.

 

[Tyrindor]

Wait,WHAT?!
I feel like a noob, but you CAN'T plug into more than one generator
My god...
Oh well, I have ICBM Atomic Science and Mekanism plus TC4 Buildcraft, Forestry, and Railcraft
I think im fine

I just made a 1.6.4 map with IC2 and NEI just to mess around with these IC2 changes. I actually like them. From what I can see energy storage units can no longer accept more than they can output..

For example:
Batbox: 32EU max in and out
CESU: 128EU max in and out
MFE: 512EU max in and out
MFSU: 2048EU max in and out

This means you can hook 3 generators up to a batbox since they output 10EU/each. 4 would exceed 32EU and it would explode. You can only hook up 1 geothermal generator to it, since those do 20EU. That's not bad at all, it's early game. Upgrading to the CESU allows you to connect 12 Generators (12x 10EU = 120EU), or 6 Geothermal Generators (6x 20EU = 120EU. That is an awful lot for a rather early game storage unit, I don't see the problem. If you upgrade to an MFE, you get a whopping 512EU possible which means 51 generators or 21 geothermal generators. If you really need more than that, there's always the MFSU which can do 4x more. All this stuff is clearly labeled in-game, so you know exactly what devices can accept now.

Another good feature of the new IC2, is machines only blow up if they are used under the wrong condition. That means you can connect a machine to 512EU/t, and it won't blow up until you make it do something. This allows you to easily place in transformer upgrades before using the machine.

One thing I don't get is the new cable system. It clearly says copper is 128EU/t, but I sent 512EU/t through it without issues. Upgrading to gold (512EU/t) did not make the storage unit fill any faster. I also don't see what people were saying earlier about not being able to have machines on a loop when converting via a single LV transformer. I did not see any slow downs taking place over MFE>MV>LV>Machines versus MFE>MV>Machines with transformer upgrades.

 

[57782]

The issue GPuzzle is referring to is more related to compact solars and the way it went about reducing overhead. Instead of a steady 8 eu/t it produced 32 eu every fourth tick. So if you used two of them, it would put 64 eu down the line at one go. That has more to do with compact solars operating on the old system, rather than a failure of the new system.

Wire burn out hasn't been re-implemented yet.

Edit: Removed stuff addressed in the previous post

 

[xbony2]

I'm using 96 mods in my custom 1.6.4 pack. I have no doubt you can create a conflict-free Ultimate-like modpack.

As for GT-style IC2, I agree. But, it's definitely GT-Lite and not full-on GT. The GT-esque bits are the hammer, tin snips, and the Metal Forming machine. They are only an early-game speedbump. After you have a couple of Metal Forming machines (plate mode and extruding mode) plugged into an AE system, it's not longer a speedbump. But, yeah, until then, they are a pain/tax/impediment/tedious step.

The upgrades to IC2 are the looks (machines look better), another tier of energy storage, a couple of new processing machines that allow for better (albeit longer) ore tripling, and some nuclear-related stuff like RTG. No major changes, though. More of a mild refresh than an overhaul.

Still, how much has Project Red covered redpower yet? I can't play without redpower, or most of base will disappear.

 

[The classless]

Is anyone else viewing the forums a dozen or more times a day hoping to see the new launcher/packs? I believe DW20 said it'd be a "few weeks" about a week ago on one of his videos. I haven't seriously played Minecraft since 1.4.7 and am really looking forward to starting a new world.

I was hoping to mess around in the Starbound beta, but I fear it will release around the same time as the new packs based on their recent news post.

So who else is excited? What are you doing to pass the time?

I fear the same thing with starbound that game is going to kick ass

 

[SonOfABirch]

What are you doing to pass the time?

Playing Resonant Rise's 1.6 pack...

 

[Physicist]

As to IC2 Experimental being Gregtech lite, it's substantially less than Gregtech. Real 1.6 Gregtech is nuts.

You can't make electricity at all until you have steel.

You can't run a nuclear reactor at all until you can make a mining laser (which is a component of the thermal centrifuge), which requires a minimum of 9 red garnet, 96 glowstone dust (+ all the tin, copper, and centrifuging to get that to a 360k coolant cell), 2 titanium, 2 advanced alloy, a diamond, and Stainless Steel (for an industrial centrifuge to make your helium coolant, which requires a 2000k temp blast furnace (Yeah, that's a lot of iron and steel and mind numbing circuit+advanced circuit production), and at least one chrome dust).

I'm on Minecraft day 450 and am not even close.

edit: (When I state the minimum requirements above, that's for the first one; subsequent mining lasers will use leftover garnet lenses, and of course, benefit from the infrastructure you already created to build the first)

 

[MigukNamja]

New IC2: YOU CAN'T PLUG MORE THAN 1 GENERATOR INTO A BATBOX.

I had 3 Generators into batboxes a few weeks ago with an IC2 Exp build that was recent at the time. Perhaps the latest IC2 Exp loads have changed that.

 

[MigukNamja]

How did you adapt to the new energy system? The only way for me so far is to completely over dimension the main lines and to use transformers or transformer upgrades for every single (overclocked) machine.

Did you find another solution?

I went through a 'voltage' progression. My 1st machines were generators, a batbox, macerator, and furnace. I didn't use any trans. upgrades.

The next tier I used was a CESU, still fed by Generators, and stepped down via MV and LV transformers for most of my machines. The Thermal Centrifuge required higher voltage, so I pulled a 128 EU/t line for that. Still no transformer upgrades.

The next tier I used was nuclear and geothermals into a single MFSU. I did not step down the MFSU, so I had to use transformer upgrades. Before I hooked up the MFSU, I broke the cable from the MFSU, made sure all my machines had transformer upgrades, and then connected the cable. I did indeed wince when I did it, but no machines blew up.

The last and final tier used 4 MFSUs in parallel, which combine for a total of 8192 EU/t into a glass fibre cable. All of my machines have 4 transformer upgrades and most of them have 13 overclockers to reduce the time to 0.97%. The exception is the thermal centrifuge. Even with 8192 EU/t supplying it, it can only reasonably handle 9 or 10 overclockers. Any more will cause it to exhaust its internal power buffer. I could probably also use more than 13 overclockers per machine, but 0.97% is a good number.

As a side note, the new system is more akin to current than voltage. You sum up currents such that current X coming from one source and current Y coming from another yields X + Y.

 

[Physicist]

As a side note, the new system is more akin to current than voltage. You sum up currents such that current X coming from one source and current Y coming from another yields X + Y.

You mean EU-packet-carrying dwarves meld into larger dwarves instead of running next to them?

 

[MigukNamja]

Yes. 1 MFSU can drive 1 MFSU in series just fine. However, toss in a Geothermal Generator, for instance, and the destination MFSU blows up due to exceeding 2048 EU/t.

This happened to me last week.

 

[Tyrindor]

I had 3 Generators into batboxes a few weeks ago with an IC2 Exp build that was recent at the time. Perhaps the latest IC2 Exp loads have changed that.

I believe he means Geothermal Generators. You can definitely have 3 connected with the latest exp build, I checked earlier today. I actually prefer the new system, no idea why it's getting so much hate.

As to IC2 Experimental being Gregtech lite, it's substantially less than Gregtech. Real 1.6 Gregtech is nuts.

You can't make electricity at all until you have steel.

You can't run a nuclear reactor at all until you can make a mining laser (which is a component of the thermal centrifuge), which requires a minimum of 9 red garnet, 96 glowstone dust (+ all the tin, copper, and centrifuging to get that to a 360k coolant cell), 2 titanium, 2 advanced alloy, a diamond, and Stainless Steel (for an industrial centrifuge to make your helium coolant, which requires a 2000k temp blast furnace (Yeah, that's a lot of iron and steel and mind numbing circuit+advanced circuit production), and at least one chrome dust).

I'm on Minecraft day 450 and am not even close.

edit: (When I state the minimum requirements above, that's for the first one; subsequent mining lasers will use leftover garnet lenses, and of course, benefit from the infrastructure you already created to build the first)

That's just too much in my opinion. If minecraft worlds were more upgradable/changeable, and didn't need to be reset every patch, I could see spending that kind of time on a single world. However, they aren't. I think most people restart their world every 8-12 months to get the latest and greatest, and that's just seems like far too much time investment to redo every year.

IThe next tier I used was nuclear and geothermals into a single MFSU. I did not step down the MFSU, so I had to use transformer upgrades. Before I hooked up the MFSU, I broke the cable from the MFSU, made sure all my machines had transformer upgrades, and then connected the cable. I did indeed wince when I did it, but no machines blew up.

Great thing about new IC2 is you no longer need to disconnect machines. Just make sure they are not in use and you can freely wire them any way you want. They won't explode unless they are being used and they are wired wrong. You can safely connect them up and then apply the transformer upgrades. This also means machines will never just blow up when you apply that wire, if you go to use a machine and it blows up, you lose the 1 machine and can invest in the issue before blowing up more. :thumb:

Correct me if i'm wrong but it was gregtech that added the "big" explosions that could take out your entire house if wired wrong? I messed around in a world and even with the worse possible wiring jobs, machines would only blow themselves up.

 

[MigukNamja]

I like it, too, it's just different and, as developmental project, changes come suddenly with little to no announcement/documentation

Dislike is usually a clash of expectations. See : people upset over BC, RC, Forestry liquid fuel nerf. Yet, no-one is upset that TC4 is even more difficult/tedious/esoteric.

The reason is expectations. Thaumcraft has always been more difficult/tedious/esoteric. However, the recent BC, RC, and Forestry liquid fuel nerf was an unexpected, sharp turn for something that's been pretty stable with few complaints in nearly 2 years.

 

[Digdug]

Still, how much has Project Red covered redpower yet? I can't play without redpower, or most of base will disappear.

I'm not sure how much of the features it's covered, but you can pretty much bet that even if all the features are covered, it's going to be a ton of work to try to convert a 1.4.x world over to 1.6.x. You'd have to dig really deep in to converting existing data structures within the blocks and run that conversion on your whole world.

 

[Tyrindor]

I'm not sure how much of the features it's covered, but you can pretty much bet that even if all the features are covered, it's going to be a ton of work to try to convert a 1.4.x world over to 1.6.x. You'd have to dig really deep in to converting existing data structures within the blocks and run that conversion on your whole world.

And impossible to convert to 1.7.

Losing worlds is part of staying on the latest and greatest, a reset every now and then is good.

 

[b0bst3r]

Got bored with waiting so playing RR 1.6.4, IC2 is going to shock a lot of people who haven't seen it - 20 diamonds to make a MFE lol

 

[Methusalem]

The reason is expectations. Thaumcraft has always been more difficult/tedious/esoteric. However, the recent BC, RC, and Forestry liquid fuel nerf was an unexpected, sharp turn for something that's been pretty stable with few complaints in nearly 2 years.

It's not really about expectations, it just doesn't feel right.

It's almost like it's necessary to fight the new system instead of working with it. Still fairly easy to adapt - just bump up the tier up your power grid (MV instead of LV, HV instead of MV etc.) and add a transformer upgrade to the machines. ... Or go completely Transformercraft and have every single machine accept 8000 EU. But either way feels clumsy.

The solution would be to remove the EU restrictions from the machines. Then the new IC2 system would pretty much work like UE, BC, TE or EnderIO. And it could still keep the different tiers of cables and transformers to connect these cable tiers to each other.