Non-renewable Items?

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whizzball1

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Oh, ok. I thought you meant a whole new mod called Alkahestry! When you said Alkahestry, I was like, Xeno? And then you said mod, and I was like, huh?
 

jumpfight5

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Alright, sorry about that, I derped, I haven't used Xeno's yet, and I thought they were different mods for a minute. Well, the only non-renewable vanilla items are now cobwebs and Endstone. That's impressive, though I think, if spiders are out somewhere long enough without being despawned, cobwebs should form. Endstone isn't as much as a problem because of asteroids and how common they are compared to their actual uses.
 

Jyzarc

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endstone is renewable now using the tome of alkahest (not in the mindcrack pack or a couple others though)
 

brujon

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Statistically, there is a certain chance that a leaf block drops a sapling. (I don't want to look stuff up and do math right now, so I'll just talk in abstract terms.) Therefore for a given amount of leaves, there is again some average chance to get at least one sapling. If you average this over all possible tree shapes, you can calculate the expected number of saplings you get from one sapling that grows, the probability distribution over all possible counts of saplings, and the chance you'll get no saplings at all (so-called "extinction rate").

Without going into too much specifics, using these numbers and some calculus you can do an infinite sum that will give you a chance that a population of n saplings will ever die out. (The inverse of that is obviously the chance that the population will live forever, and provide you with infinite wood.) While calculating the exact chance for a given probability distribution and n is quite difficult, there are some things we can tell using statistics:

  • If the expected number of saplings you get from one tree is less than 1, the chance of the population eventually dying is always 1, regardless of n.
  • If the expected number of saplings from one tree is greater than 1, the chance of the population dying off will be less than 1. Moreover, the greater n is, the smaller this chance becomes. (A mathematician would say that the limit for this chance for n going to infinity is 0.) So if you want a chance, say, less than one in a million that your tree farm will run out, I could give you a number of saplings to start with to get that chance.
Silverwood trees fall under the first category. No matter how many you plant, there is a certainty that you will eventually lose all your saplings. All other trees (as far as I know, isn't there one tree in TF that doesn't drop saplings?) fall in the second category. And while there will always be a chance to lose all of your saplings, you can make this chance as small as you'd like (one to the number of atoms in the universe if you really want*) by simply starting with more saplings. I would therefore classify all other types of wood as renewable.



* or less than a chance of your computer being hit by a meteorite, destroying your saved game and the tree farm.


Doesn't Fortune enchant on Sickles make more saplings drop out of trees? Because then, every tree, including Greatwood and Silverwood are renewable, because with a Fortune III Sickle, where one sapling would drop, you'd now get 3.
 

Jyzarc

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Doesn't Fortune enchant on Sickles make more saplings drop out of trees? Because then, every tree, including Greatwood and Silverwood are renewable, because with a Fortune III Sickle, where one sapling would drop, you'd now get 3.
If you dont consider regular saplings renewable (I do) then fortune doesn't make them "renewable" as its still a chance
 

brujon

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If you dont consider regular saplings renewable (I do) then fortune doesn't make them "renewable" as its still a chance

What are the odds three saplings in a row giving you no saplings whatsoever? I'd say fortune on a Sickle gets that percentage chance so low it's damn near impossible.

Also, Grafters guarantee you at least one sapling as long as you have 1 piece of bronze, and bees make bronze renewable (there's tin and copper bees). Doesn't work on mod trees(except forestry and rubber trees), but work on every vanilla tree, so the chance goes away for those. Leaving us with Greatwood and Silverwood, which, using Fortune on a Sickle, makes them more or less renewable. Chance is so low you won't get a sapling out of three saplings it doesn't have to be factored in.
 

Jyzarc

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What are the odds three saplings in a row giving you no saplings whatsoever? I'd say fortune on a Sickle gets that percentage chance so low it's damn near impossible.

Also, Grafters guarantee you at least one sapling as long as you have 1 piece of bronze, and bees make bronze renewable (there's tin and copper bees). Doesn't work on mod trees(except forestry and rubber trees), but work on every vanilla tree, so the chance goes away for those. Leaving us with Greatwood and Silverwood, which, using Fortune on a Sickle, makes them more or less renewable. Chance is so low you won't get a sapling out of three saplings it doesn't have to be factored in.

im not sure, saplings are considered renewable however (according to the wiki)
 

PhilHibbs

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I think it's pretty clear that regular saplings are renewable, but Silverwoods are not. Statistically you are overwhelmingly likely to end up with more regular saplings than you started with; whereas you are highly likely to run out of Silverwood saplings if you just farm one tree over and over. Maybe add two new sub-categories, "Statistically renewable", and "Statistically non-renewable".

I once started a Skyblock 2.0 level and didn't get a sapling from the tree. That is somewhat unusual, I think, but it is a very small tree.

Also, Grafters guarantee you at least one sapling as long as you have 1 piece of bronze...
I think this has been covered before in this thread - that only works on Forestry saplings, not vanilla ones, so technically you're replacing the item with a different one.
 

brujon

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I think it's pretty clear that regular saplings are renewable, but Silverwoods are not. Statistically you are overwhelmingly likely to end up with more regular saplings than you started with; whereas you are highly likely to run out of Silverwood saplings if you just farm one tree over and over. Maybe add two new sub-categories, "Statistically renewable", and "Statistically non-renewable".

I once started a Skyblock 2.0 level and didn't get a sapling from the tree. That is somewhat unusual, I think, but it is a very small tree.


I think this has been covered before in this thread - that only works on Forestry saplings, not vanilla ones, so technically you're replacing the item with a different one.

Yes, but you can Treealyze the vanilla saplings and then the grafter starts working with them once again. So you can have a forestry "birch" and a forestry "oak", which is the apple oak. Also jungle trees, etc... IIRC doesn't work on ExtraBiomesXL trees. It may or may not work with the Acacia tree.
 

PhilHibbs

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So you can replace your "Oak" saplings with "Apple Oak" saplings, but those are a different item. There may be no discernable difference, but for instance I don't know if Forestry saplings can be used in Thaumcraft research, and they certainly can't be stored in the same barrel as a vanilla sapling.

p.s. how lucky we are that there aren't "Vanilla Trees", i.e. trees that actually produce vanilla pods, that would be confusing.
 

YX33A

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With the addition of Minefactory Reloaded to Ultimate, you can get a infinite supply of quicksand(and cracked sand, but that's not on your list) with the Sludge Boiler, which consumes BC power and MFR Sludge, which is produced from using a Harvester to harvest anything it can harvest.
Also, I'm not sure why the XyCraft section says you can only have sulfur goo in infinite supply. It also adds two crops, Henquin and Corn, both of which can be grown from seeds gathered from tall grass, which means they are infinite if bonemeal is, or even if you harvest them when fully grown.(corn is broken best from the bottom, often yielding 2-3 seeds for replanting)
 

jumpfight5

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Okay, so with a Fortune Sickle, Silverwoods are pretty much renewable. With Xeno's, Endstone is renewable. And there's Henquin and Corn.
Awesome, I'll update it now.


EVERY SINGLE VANILLA ITEM IN THE GAME IS RENEWABLE.
Wow. *claps*
 

brujon

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Okay, so with a Fortune Sickle, Silverwoods are pretty much renewable. With Xeno's, Endstone is renewable. And there's Henquin and Corn.
Awesome, I'll update it now.


EVERY SINGLE VANILLA ITEM IN THE GAME IS RENEWABLE.
Wow. *claps*

Henequin makes String right? Flax is much more efficient for that =S

Henequen gives you 1 henequen leaf per growth, then you need 4 of those to craft 1 piece of string... Flax when fully grown, can give you 3 or 4 strings, much, much better.

Cobwebs, not renewable yet. You can only harvest them through silk touch on shears. AFAIK there's no other way to craft them in-game, but i wouldn't be surprised if some mod added a way. 8 strings in a chest pattern, or 9 strings to get you a cobweb? Maybe even Mojang will add a way someday. I mean, they're pretty cool for decoration, and they also work very well in traps and redstone contraptions that rely on falling blocks. Like the Boat clock.
 

jumpfight5

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Henequin makes String right? Flax is much more efficient for that =S

Henequen gives you 1 henequen leaf per growth, then you need 4 of those to craft 1 piece of string... Flax when fully grown, can give you 3 or 4 strings, much, much better.

Cobwebs, not renewable yet. You can only harvest them through silk touch on shears. AFAIK there's no other way to craft them in-game, but i wouldn't be surprised if some mod added a way. 8 strings in a chest pattern, or 9 strings to get you a cobweb? Maybe even Mojang will add a way someday. I mean, they're pretty cool for decoration, and they also work very well in traps and redstone contraptions that rely on falling blocks. Like the Boat clock.
Well, I know that Henequin's not nearly as good as Flax, but I don't think we're talking about the string it produces. I think we're talking about the Henequin itself (though it should be part of the oreclause).

Anyways, string's renewable multiple ways, and Henequin is renewable, so they have both been removed from the list.

And yes, webs need to be added. Maybe if they turned up every once in a while, like in already generated chunks randomly and rarely at night only while you're sleeping, that could be cool too, because Steve can't really...make webs. But I don't think Steve can make a suit that lets you fly with, well, basic materials, either.
 

OmegaJasam

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Jul 29, 2019
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Okay, so with a Fortune Sickle, Silverwoods are pretty much renewable. With Xeno's, Endstone is renewable. And there's Henquin and Corn.
Awesome, I'll update it now.


EVERY SINGLE VANILLA ITEM IN THE GAME IS RENEWABLE.
Wow. *claps*

Silverwoods are defiantly NOT renewable. Fortune has /no effect/ on them. You get about ~0.6 saplings per tree grown, so over time you WILL run out.
 

Guswut

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And yes, webs need to be added. Maybe if they turned up every once in a while, like in already generated chunks randomly and rarely at night only while you're sleeping, that could be cool too, because Steve can't really...make webs. But I don't think Steve can make a suit that lets you fly with, well, basic materials, either.

Considering the things Steve can make with almost no tools, I'd say making spider webs from string would be low on the list of things that stress the suspension of disbelief.
 

jumpfight5

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Silverwoods are defiantly NOT renewable. Fortune has /no effect/ on them. You get about ~0.6 saplings per tree grown, so over time you WILL run out.
Can anyone confirm this? People up in the posts above were discussing the ability of Fortune on Sickles on Silverwood. I'll have to test this out myself.
Considering the things Steve can make with almost no tools, I'd say making spider webs from string would be low on the list of things that stress the suspension of disbelief.
Oh yeah? Name 183.