I kinda thought of that from Dartcraft, even Thaumcraft isn't a "pure" magic mod, or at least not a "magic" mod that we have come to think of with spells and such like AM2, it's a magicy techy mod in its own category.
Mods definitions and usefulness
- Thread starter Not_Steve
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Tech and magic are not categories, they are flavors. You could literally write a mod, release it twice with 2 names and different skins, label one tech and one magic. As long as the textures make the functionality look the flavor, there is no difference.
Outside of a few mods they usually can. Things like RC are obviously harder to classify, though.
True enough, and just because a mod is concitered a "tech mod" doesn't mean it cant have magic aspects. Hell, even GregTech had magical energy converters at one point.
For example thaumcraft could easily be made into a science mod. Thaumometer becomes magnifying glass. Essentia becomes elements. Essentia distillation becomes elemental purification. I can see this...
Speaking of which...
This looks very interesting (and reminds me of this convo even though this is kinda old lol):
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...-discussion-ore-processing-like-a-boss.40277/
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Its both, it has both, it requires both.
How is TiC tech? Its neutral at best. Leaning more to magic then annything. Because the affixes you can add are magically improving the thing. The smeltery is just a big furnace, wich is neither tech nor magic. All the unusual things TiC adds, like slimes and heart cannisters. All lean more to magic then tech.
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Thats just wrong... DC's configs are very very extensive. Giving more then just options to enable or disable things. To the point where it underperforms to just about everything else. And yet, the clipboard and bags are unmatched.
^ This, try saying you hate DC again after playing a bit with the clipboard and a fully configured backpack. I could recomend the storage units too, but you'd most likely define those as "too OP" as well. Also please no OP this OP that debates anymore
As for the topic, what I think is that if you try too hard to define something, you will never get a good result.
As for the topic, what I think is that if you try too hard to define something, you will never get a good result.
I think, mods can be partially classified on whether they enhance "Minecraft", or simply stop all over the games general progression and balance.
For example: Enchanting Plus - is a bad mod, because it solves a problem in a way that lessens the game experience: With enchanting+ there is now no purpose to enchanting books, and hence no reward in searching stronghold libraries for them.
Bibliocraft on the other hand, solves the same problem - the grindyness of vanilla enchanting - by offering a machine that - at cost - can duplicate enchantments. This increases the value of discovered enchanting books as you can duplicate valuable ones, and combine less valuable ones into powerful ones you can duplicate. MFR is a bad mod (by this example) as it completely trivializes the whole process of enchanting, and disenchanting.
This classification of enhance vs dilute the base experience is so subjective though.
Is Rotarycraft a good or a bad mod? Its bloody brilliant with its power system and machines. But then it trivializes its own realism driven content with "bedrock" tools and gears. This side of mod development depresses me: Mod developers whacking their dick down on the table with a "My <item> is better than your <item>". RoC's bedrock tools, vs EU's "Unstable" tools, vs DC's "Force" tools and so on.
I don't know why Thaumcraft, and Blood Magic, and Witchery and Thermal Expansion feel "balanced", but Dartcraft, and Extra Utilities and MFR and many more don't. What is the difference between thaumium, and yellorium that makes me enjoy them, but intolerant of mob essence, force ingots, and 'pink' (as a fuel).
I wish I knew.
For example: Enchanting Plus - is a bad mod, because it solves a problem in a way that lessens the game experience: With enchanting+ there is now no purpose to enchanting books, and hence no reward in searching stronghold libraries for them.
Bibliocraft on the other hand, solves the same problem - the grindyness of vanilla enchanting - by offering a machine that - at cost - can duplicate enchantments. This increases the value of discovered enchanting books as you can duplicate valuable ones, and combine less valuable ones into powerful ones you can duplicate. MFR is a bad mod (by this example) as it completely trivializes the whole process of enchanting, and disenchanting.
This classification of enhance vs dilute the base experience is so subjective though.
Is Rotarycraft a good or a bad mod? Its bloody brilliant with its power system and machines. But then it trivializes its own realism driven content with "bedrock" tools and gears. This side of mod development depresses me: Mod developers whacking their dick down on the table with a "My <item> is better than your <item>". RoC's bedrock tools, vs EU's "Unstable" tools, vs DC's "Force" tools and so on.
I don't know why Thaumcraft, and Blood Magic, and Witchery and Thermal Expansion feel "balanced", but Dartcraft, and Extra Utilities and MFR and many more don't. What is the difference between thaumium, and yellorium that makes me enjoy them, but intolerant of mob essence, force ingots, and 'pink' (as a fuel).
I wish I knew.
I think part of it will be the effort invested crafting the items, vs the reward from that item. I personally use MFR with TE recipes and increased power requirements, and it feels "better".
I do shudder when I see a crafting recipe that's stone, glass and redstone, and it gives you some magical technological powerful box or half a stack of an item.
Yeah thats pretty much how I see it, Essentia is the RF of Thaumcraft. its a much more intricate and nuanced concept though. It would be interesting to see new mods take full advantage of the essentia system like tech mods do with RF. I love that with tech mods you know they will interact. RF will power just about anything and one copper is as good as another. All these new magic mods have their own independent systems to learn but its all so similar to thaumcraft. Stuff like fire elements and magical crystals shows up in recipes so often it makes me wish it was just ore dictionary compatible. I just dont see how mods like Witchery and Blood magic couldnt benefit from such a strong foundation.
TiC can be considered as the "low tier" tech mod. If you make power system using mods require something whitch can only be aquired from it ( example tic steelworks to get steel to create te machine frame, iron based recipe removed.),then you can say that tic is a "tech" mod. One level of technology is included.
Another example what i think with "low tier tech" is the XU(i think this is the proper short for extra utils, not sounds like teh power system) survivalist generator.
Ballance is all about the enviroment.If two mods have the same functionality, but one of them can do the stuff better, then you have to ballance it aganist the "weaker" one.Make sure he has to make it to get the next "tier" machine.
-MFR is kinda base mod now(since has a good compatibility).But you can live whitout it.
-The unstable tools are something different.They have different functionality,and at least you need to find a dungeon to get the sigil. And the ingots are dangerous.
XU can be called a tech mod, or call it something like open blocks?
-I think pink fuel ment to be a joke.
-Yerrolium is a less real radioactive matter, but do has a good feeling.
-Force, well thats the op stuff.Who needs backpacks when you can pick up a few chests with chests inside them.Not the mechanic is the op, the cost.One mining trip gives you whatever you need to start being op.Thats reason one why its bad mod.
Reason two: completly integrated into the ic-bc enviroment, and becomes really odd whitout them, and now you can live whitout them, they no longer "core" mods. Loading up crated force when the mod can see that theres clearly no way to obtain it is really silly for me.
-Rotarycraft lives in its own world, i would not put it in a pack.
Theres a TE-thaumacraft bridge mod Techromancy (i belive).
In thoose terms TE is some kind of "tech core mod". gives the basic stuff, but requies additional mods to be really usefull. I don't think you can get enough materials by hand to give a reason to automation.
if you want a magitech mod based on rf, its should be an add-on. I think the right ballance is the need to generate extreme amount of energy to cast powerfull "spells".If you add magic based power gen, then its should be end game stuff . And its a really good idea. Redstone is already mysterious material in the game.
I find that statement a bit weird as RotaryCraft works so well together with other mods. I'm using it extensively in a mostly TE/RF based world myself and it fits in really well.
This. RotaryCraft - performance problems excepted - belongs far more in the FTB "Base" pack than a lot of other RF mods, which, common power system notwithstanding, add silly items and "duplicate" piping of fluids, items and RF, each with its own way (or not) of being facaded / microblocked. EnderIO is the ONLY RF based mod that adds an improved enough conduit system that I think should become the new default.
Yes, I think that EnderIO has sufficient in it to be almost a replacement for TE. The only thing still missing and for which TE is still needed is the creation of the special fluids.
Too real for minecraft. Just don't feels right to me.
May not be the default, but the conduits are kinda the main reason to use it. And its well ballanced.Alongside it its still worth to use redstone conduits for the capacity.I would say that te ducts are kinda more basic.Ender io should be a pushed later game, not for the begining.
I solved the problem for myself:
example: pulverizer is "tier 1", the sagmill was made more expensive(and require a pulverizer as base) to be "tier 2".
Guys, if something not seems to be right, then make it right (if possible).
I don't think a SAG Mill is an upgrade in the strictest sense, of a pulverizer. When an item is used in an upgrade recipe, I expect it to be a strict superset of the base items functionality.
(As it is I am using Ender IO in a world without TE (1.7.2) or any copper/tin providing mod at all, and it keeps on producing copper and tin dust as side products that I can do *nothing* with).
(As it is I am using Ender IO in a world without TE (1.7.2) or any copper/tin providing mod at all, and it keeps on producing copper and tin dust as side products that I can do *nothing* with).