Mining well nerfs.....

[NTaylor]

A change to the way mining wells work that was introduced in 1.5.2 should actually make the frame mining well machine more efficient . The pain being that we have no RP to do it with however I did just test it with Redstone in motion and it worked perfectly. The change is that you no longer have to break the mining well before moving the frame machine for it to work properly.

So really this nerf in a way counters that potential buff, however it does negatively affect turtle mining system in a way.

However a lot of people have pointed out that the mining machines are not day one constructs. So TBH by time you have a decent enough set up to handle the machine really you should have your power gen up to scratch anyway seen as it is the first thing most people do.

 

[Jakeb]

A change to the way mining wells work that was introduced in 1.5.2 should actually make the frame mining well machine more efficient . The pain being that we have no RP to do it with however I did just test it with Redstone in motion and it worked perfectly. The change is that you no longer have to break the mining well before moving the frame machine for it to work properly.

So really this nerf in a way counters that potential buff, however it does negatively affect turtle mining system in a way.

However a lot of people have pointed out that the mining machines are not day one constructs. So TBH by time you have a decent enough set up to handle the machine really you should have your power gen up to scratch anyway seen as it is the first thing most people do.

Nice! I was hoping it would work like that but had some trouble testing it out.

 

[Hoff]

The mining well didn't make a change for that the author for redstone in motion specifically made it work.

 

[arentol]

I found this vid that seems to have done the mining well turtle thing before DW20. Its been bothering me for a while

That person may have set up a turtle only version before DW20, but DW20 was still the first person to identify and use the ridiculously powerful combination of mobile mining wells + energy tesseract.... And that is what people give DW20 so much credit for. These all turtle systems are just refinements, the core idea is still all DW20.

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[RedBoss]

That person may have set up a turtle only version before DW20, but DW20 was still the first person to identify and use the ridiculously powerful combination of mobile mining wells + energy tesseract.... And that is what people give DW20 so much credit for. These all turtle systems are just refinements, the core idea is still all DW20.

You didn't even watch the vid, did you? This guy IS using an energy tesseract. Wow!

And the date its posted is BEFORE DW put his up.

 

[arentol]

You didn't even watch the vid, did you? This guy IS using an energy tesseract. Wow!

And the date its posted is BEFORE DW put his up.

I did watch the video, and did see the energy tesseract. That is why I referenced the idea coming first from DW20.

You see, the video you linked was posted 2 months after DW20's video from March that initiated this whole concept. Check your dates again.

(Here is a hint to help: season 5, SSP, episodes 46-48)

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[Jakeb]

I did watch the video, and did see the energy tesseract. That is why I referenced the idea coming first from DW20.

You see, the video you linked was posted 2 months after DW20's video from March that initiated this whole concept. Check your dates again.

(Here is a hint to help: season 5, SSP, episodes 46-48)

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Red is talking about the turtle only setup, which this guy did first (and best in my opinion). Yes, dire was the first we know of to come up with the whole mining well machine, everybody knows that.

 

[arentol]

Red is talking about the turtle only setup, which this guy did first (and best in my opinion). Yes, dire was the first we know of to come up with the whole mining well machine, everybody knows that.

I know. My comments are in regard to Red being bothered by someone having done the turtle well before. I was merely pointing out that to my knowledge most of the "Credit" Direwolf20 has been getting has been for the original idea, not for the later turtle only idea, so there isn't much to be bothered about. And even if it does still bother you, that should be mostly mitigated by the fact that without Direwolf20 there might not have been this other persons version anyway.

 

[PhilHibbs]

This is a good thing. It doesn't actually nerf the Mining Well, only puts it in the same ballpark as the quarry. They can still be used in frame mining machines just as well as they had been before, it will only require more power - the same amount of power as a fully powered quarry, only it will work faster.

It won't work faster. The power draw means that the tesseract can't drive it as fast, as it's limited to 75MJ/t (100 minus the loss, I think) so that's just slightly more than 1 block per tick. So a single well can get from Y60 to bedrock in 3 seconds, but 16 wells all running from the same tesseract will take 38 seconds. Two tesseracts should bring that down to 19 seconds. That's not too bad, if my maths is correct, but mine with 2 tesseracts gets from 80 to bedrock in under 10 seconds. Actually I think it's a lot faster than that as I have two Redstone Energy Cells with multiple conduit connections, it can mine almost as fast as I can fall.

I'm not complaining, because it always was OP and DW20 knew that it would be nerfed and warned everyone about it, but this change will slow it down. Actually it might still be faster than a quarry, I'm not sure how the quarry speed calculation works.

 

[immibis]

Mining wells mine vertically. Quarries mine horizontally.
With a quarry you get all the valuable ores near the end of the run. A mining well machine will give you valuable ores at a fairly constant rate.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Might as well have removed it. It not longer serves a purpose.

I disagree - it's the same power draw as a quarry, and it gives an even spread of resources as against only giving you redstone and diamonds near the end of the run. So it's slower than it used to be. That's ok, because it used to be ridiculously fast. And the turtle system is easy to fire-and-forget, flip a lever and you've got resources flowing in, flip it off and it stops.

 

[Nanakisan]

Personally the only thing i ever legitimately used a mining well for. Was simply to dig long straight shafts down to bedrock then place lava so caves and crap would be lit. It made my mob towers so wonderfully efficient!

 

[NTaylor]

The mining well didn't make a change for that the author for redstone in motion specifically made it work.

Not sure about that the reason I say it was a change in the way the mining well works is because during one of DW20s S4 SMP series that was posted after the release of 1.5.2 but before they went on to that (though I cant remember the exact episode) DW20 was talking to CPW (IIRC) and he had said that he built himself a similar frame machine and then changed the way the mining wells work so that the turtles are not needed to break them.

That is just going off of what was said there though so I may be wrong.

 

[iconmaster]

If you guys want to make simple holes to bedrock, I'd suggest the new ME Matter Cannon. If you point it straight down, it'll dig a hole to bedrock in a few seconds, and with what I can only assume to be with less energy.

 

[Hoff]

Not sure about that the reason I say it was a change in the way the mining well works is because during one of DW20s S4 SMP series that was posted after the release of 1.5.2 but before they went on to that (though I cant remember the exact episode) DW20 was talking to CPW (IIRC) and he had said that he built himself a similar frame machine and then changed the way the mining wells work so that the turtles are not needed to break them.

That is just going off of what was said there though so I may be wrong.

He might have but considering it's cpw... I rarely trust what he says.

 

[warfighter67]

Actually yes, when you think about it. The Mining well is a legacy block from the early years of BC. Its recipe is negligible at best in comparisson to the quarries recipe. I'm rather amazed they don't just remove it.

Now that you said that, the quarry is going to get a much more expensive recipe.

Thanks!

 

[Bellaabzug21]

Now that you said that, the quarry is going to get a much more expensive recipe.

Thanks!

Our good friend GregoriusT already took care of that.

 

[Niseg]

Using turtles to move mining wells around might be Direwolf20's idea but people are free to write their own computercraft to programs. It's true that the nerf can be painful but it is not necessarily a deathblow to mining wells - it's still pretty fast and low tech . Now all you need is to pushing more energy into it. After looking at psyestorm's script I wrote a script to does almost the same thing with 1 turtle, works in 1.47 and in 1.52 require less resources to start with.

My script might be a resource hog if you use conduits because it requires m+n of them to dig an m*n hole .It's also a pretty slow script but I might be able to accelerate it . In 1.52 you can start out with gold transport and gold conductive pipes instead which means your cost is about 16 bars of gold you can make a ~15x15 quarry with 3-4 TE steam engines. Afterwards you can upgrade to 3 mining wells and feed it with like 16Mj/t and it should do fine.

The nerf does affect my script and other 3 well script drastically . 3 wells are now pulling 60Mj/t while a tesseract can only push 75 and conduit limit is 100Mj. This will definitely slow it down the power requirements in my script will also jump to about 33Mj/t but pushing 180Mj/t through a 100Mj/t pipe will slow it down the speed of the well to about half. If I'm working now with 4 second delay I'll need to raise it to around 7.1~ (did the math on height 75 my overhead is about 16 seconds for 3 wells).

This is an early version of my script :

I'm now working on moving the quarry in this video. ( too long to embed)
The only thing I need to add is session persistence (not trivial in CC) and it can theoretically run forever.

Session persistence is hard to do in computercraft, because the files on turtle/computers are saved immediately while the server state is saved periodically.Most "session persistent" scripts fail is that the turtle thinks it's farther ahead than it is and the current state is usually a gamble. Session persistence gets complicated if the turtle moves. If the turtle turns it's easier to do but if it moves and turns it can be a nightmare. The key for session persistence in environmental/inventory based state detection . Writing the recovery code can get more complicate than writing the operational code itself .

 

[RedBoss]

Now that you said that, the quarry is going to get a much more expensive recipe.

Thanks!

I think the quarry SHOULD have a more expensive recipe. I think this recipe should come from the BuildCraft side and not GT. I have a bare minimum of IC2 based infrastructure and making an IC2 drill for a BC device is not what I'd prefer.

Having a quarry be a bit more expensive would be nicer. It would encourage more BC based power gen & infrastructure. The posts with people trying to power a quarry with a Stirling engine would disappear... Hopefully

 

[natnif36]

If they're using a sterling engine, they're no doubt coming from Tekkit, where a sterling engine or power converters was your only valid option, due to haveing so few other options, and Fuel being non-renewable and therefore pointless for larger scale builds.