Mekanism: Feature Request Thread

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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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We had a little discussion and came to conclusion that energy upgrades in their current state should go.
Why? Well, because lovering energy per operation 8x is impossible to balance. Balancing it would it either make it too costly at the beginning, or too cheap at the late-game. It's just a bad design, honestly. They are not that expensive and they lover the operation cost drastically.

Also, speed upgrades. They are better, but they don't increase operation cost. It would be a logical design because currently upgrades make the machine strictly better. Why not making it more... optional? Speed upgrades trade some efficiency for speed, and energy ones... I'd probably remove them at all. But making 8x speed boost and 8x energy efficiency is just not right. It makes the machine better than any other options. And factories already grant 3x, 5x or 7x free speed boost respectively.
 
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PierceSG

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Jul 29, 2019
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@PonyKuu, I don't understand what you meant. Are you suggesting something or are you part of the dev group for Mekanism.?

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Aidan

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Jul 29, 2019
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PonyKuu said:
We had a little discussion and came to conclusion that energy upgrades in their current state should go.
Why? Well, because lovering energy per operation 8x is impossible to balance. Balancing it would it either make it too costly at the beginning, or too cheap at the late-game. It's just a bad design, honestly. They are not that expensive and they lover the operation cost drastically.

Also, speed upgrades. They are better, but they don't increase operation cost. It would be a logical design because currently upgrades make the machine strictly better. Why not making it more... optional? Speed upgrades trade some efficiency for speed, and energy ones... I'd probably remove them at all. But making 8x speed boost and 8x energy efficiency is just not right. It makes the machine better than any other options. And factories already grant 3x, 5x or 7x free speed boost respectively.
Click to expand...
Guessing you calculated something off - energy cost is exponentially increased by the amount of upgrades used. I may add a config option for this in the future.
 
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PierceSG

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And is that an energy efficiency upgrade? I thought that was for expanding the machines energy storage?

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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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Aidan said:
Guessing you calculated something off - energy cost is exponentially increased by the amount of upgrades used. I may add a config option for this in the future.
Click to expand...
First of all, did you read the whole post or only speed upgrade part?

Ans second one, are you SURE that you don't mess "energy" and "power"? Because my tests show me following: Smelting ONE ore in energized smelter costs almost the same amount of ENERGY with 8 speed upgrades and without any upgrades. Of course that requires mode POWER because the same amount of energy consumed faster. But that's not enough.
 
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RavynousHunter

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Jul 29, 2019
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PierceSG said:
@PonyKuu, I don't understand what you meant. Are you suggesting something or are you part of the dev group for Mekanism.?

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Click to expand...
That's what I wanna know, because their posts are coming across as a little...brash, as well as blunt. I dunno if that's just Kuu's particular style, or if they're a Mekanism dev or what, just my observation.
 
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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'm just testing one modpack. And we had a discussion with the developers of the pack and decided that the best way to balance Mekanism so that it wont be strictly better than other mods is to remove energy upgrades.
 
ShneekeyTheLost

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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Lost as always
PonyKuu said:
First of all, did you read the whole post or only speed upgrade part?

Ans second one, are you SURE that you don't mess "energy" and "power"? Because my tests show me following: Smelting ONE ore in energized smelter costs almost the same amount of ENERGY with 8 speed upgrades and without any upgrades. Of course that requires mode POWER because the same amount of energy consumed faster. But that's not enough.
Click to expand...
This is not my experience in playing with the mod.

* Increasing the speed incrementally increases the power exponentially, meaning an overall reduction in efficiency on a geometric progression.

* The Energy upgrades merely upgrade the energy buffer, not the energy efficiency. It doesn't lower the energy requirements per operation one joule.
 
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Aidan

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Jul 29, 2019
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PonyKuu said:
I'm just testing one modpack. And we had a discussion with the developers of the pack and decided that the best way to balance Mekanism so that it wont be strictly better than other mods is to remove energy upgrades.
Click to expand...
ShneekeyTheLost is right, it definitely ups the energy usage with the speed upgrades. What's SUPPOSED to happen is that, with 8 speed upgrades and 8 energy upgrades, the energy usage is the same. However, you should certainly be able to notice a difference between 8 energy and 0 energy upgrades; the efficiency is probably it's biggest contender.

Also, I certainly am not trying to come of as rude myself, but I'd have to agree that your comments seem rather harsh in comparison to all your other great suggestions you've provided to Mekanism in the past. If there's something wrong, I definitely want to fix it!
 
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Zenthon_127

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Jul 29, 2019
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Mekanism doesn't completely overshadow other mods. In fact, Mekanism is probably WORSE than TE3 and others in several areas, notably power storage (Mek beats out TE by a tiny amount in terms of pure storage but TE has greater configuration), early-mid game ore doubling, power transport, liquid transport and late-game power generation. Mek is only significantly better then other mods in the areas of late-game ore processing, sorting, early mobility and mid-game power gen.

Also Aiden/Shneekey are correct, energy upgrades don't change how much energy is needed. They're basically identical to IC2 Energy Ups.
 
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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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I don't know guys. It seems like we're using different mods. I JUST tested two Energized smelters attached to a cubes. Mek 5.6.0.640.
Setup is the following: An empty cube attached directly to a smelter. Smelter's internal capacity is filed up with another cube. Then I fill the cube with one 1 MJ from the energy tablet. After that I smelt one osmium ore in it.
Results are following:
Smelter with 8 speed upgrades:
Smelter without speed upgrades:
As you see with speed upgrades it ate a litlle less energy, but almost the same
Don't have time for other test currently, but I'm pretty sure that energy upgrades reduce the cost per operation.
 
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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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Also, if you feel like I cheated to prove something - feel free to run this test yourself. I have no idea why would I do that, though.

And sorry for being a bit rude, it's kinda confusing when I test something and see it clearly by myself and then people saying that it's not true. I feel like an idiot and test this again to get the same results.
 
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RavynousHunter

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Jul 29, 2019
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It may just be a minor bug or the GUI not displaying the properties right. I have, in the past, had issues with processing blocks (including vanilla furnaces) having their displayed GUI values for certain things be way off from what they actually are...leaving me wondering what the hell happened when my induction furnace suddenly ran outta juice from processing one ore to another when it had 4-5 energy upgrades in it.
 
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b0bst3r

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Jul 29, 2019
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The removal of energy upgrades from the RR modpack broke the factories, apparently that was there intention as they don't want us to process ores easily (like that actually matters to the game).

Hence to say I think it's likely our server owner maybe thinking about undoing the change. If he doesn't and RR keeps this I'll be looking for another mod pack with Mek in, it's a stupid change that breaks the factories over what, ore processing which you do maybe 10%-15% of the game.

I'm not setting up a complete power station sized system just to run ore processing the way I like.
 
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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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In RR factories are broken not because of the energy upgrades removal, but because their basic operation cost is too high (44KJ) For example, smelting one ore in basic smelter, not factory costs 16 KJ (which might be quite high as well).
As I said, decreasing operation cost that much is bad. It's impossible to balance and leads to such dilemmas.

Here're the screenshots you asked for, Aidan:

Speed upgrades:
NoqcfLP.png

XM7H4GI.png
No speed upgrades:
kXYiMwI.png

V3Xrolx.png
 
Golrith

Golrith

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Nov 11, 2012
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Aidan, seem to have a bug with Windmills. Windmill connected to leadstone conduits to a quarry. Quarry frame got built and a few blocks got mined, then it all stopped. When I then rightclick on the windmill to call up GUI, the below crash. This is with build #648.
What was odd, was picking up and replacing the windmill in exactly the same place it all worked as expected. Don't know why it glitched.

Server error:
21:18:00 [WARNING] Failed to handle packet for Golrith/88.107.246.125: java.lang.ClassCastException: mekanism.generators.common.tileentity.TileEntityHeatGenerator cannot be cast to mekanism.generators.common.tileentity.TileEntityWindTurbine
21:18:00 java.lang.ClassCastException: mekanism.generators.common.tileentity.TileEntityHeatGenerator cannot be cast to mekanism.generators.common.tileentity.TileEntityWindTurbine
21:18:00 at mekanism.generators.common.GeneratorsCommonProxy.getServerGui(GeneratorsCommonProxy.java:108)
21:18:00 at mekanism.generators.common.GeneratorsGuiHandler.getServerGuiElement(GeneratorsGuiHandler.java:18)
21:18:00 at cpw.mods.fml.common.network.NetworkRegistry.openRemoteGui(NetworkRegistry.java:308)
21:18:00 at cpw.mods.fml.common.network.FMLNetworkHandler.openGui(FMLNetworkHandler.java:353)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.entity.player.EntityPlayer.openGui(EntityPlayer.java:2480)
21:18:00 at mekanism.generators.common.block.BlockGenerator.func_71903_a(BlockGenerator.java:366)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.item.ItemInWorldManager.func_73078_a(ItemInWorldManager.java:421)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.network.NetServerHandler.func_72472_a(NetServerHandler.java:556)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.network.packet.Packet15Place.func_73279_a(SourceFile:58)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.network.TcpConnection.func_74428_b(TcpConnection.java:462)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.network.NetServerHandler.func_72570_d(NetServerHandler.java:141)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.network.NetworkListenThread.func_71747_b(NetworkListenThread.java:54)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServerListenThread.func_71747_b(SourceFile:30)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.func_71190_q(MinecraftServer.java:691)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.func_71190_q(DedicatedServer.java:276)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.func_71217_p(MinecraftServer.java:587)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.run(MinecraftServer.java:484)
21:18:00 at net.minecraft.server.ThreadMinecraftServer.run(SourceFile:583)
 
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