In-Game Docs: Guides vs Wikis

[Democretes]

I've seen quite a few mods do in-game documentation through the use of "guides". They all show the complete list of items/blocks, how to use them, crafting recipes, etc. The thing is, none of them really help. They're all just wikis conveniently placed in a book within the game. Personally, this doesn't help. 95% of us have easy acess to the internet, so a wiki and an in-game guide are basically the same thing. Players are still swamped by all the content and truly have no clue where to start.

When I looked at Botania the first time, I was slightly disoriented by the amount of stuff. Where does one start? What should I do first? Can I work with this thing? How about this? After about 5 minutes, I figured out where to get started. I've see a few people do this in live streams as well. They just kind of fumble around in the book for a few minutes until they get their bearings and know what they want to do.

Now let's get to the point. Instead of having an "in-game wiki", if it was an actual guide? Instead of looking at all the things at once, you'd only start off with a small cluster of pages to look at, and as you craft more items and blocks, more pages unlock, thereby guiding you in the right direction as you start off. Recipes would never be "blocked" though. Unlike Thaumcraft which requires research before you craft the item, you could craft the item at any time, regardless of where you stood in the research. For people who already know the mod, they can disable this feature in the configs. Alternatively, there could just be a designated "Getting Started" page for those new to the mod.

Thoughts on either method or no "guiding" at all?

 

[Alexiy]

The quality of guide books also matters. For example, I find Thaumcraft guide more helpful and qualitative than Tinkers Con. guide. About wikis: after some time, they can have more information than ingame guides because they are edited by multiple people (some of them can get the source code). So, depends on quality and information amount.

 

[madnewmy]

I think the current ingame documentation are alright, just not always properly organized.

If I want a guide on how too use a certain mod, I would go on youtube or google. I don't want a mod too be spoiled in game. Also, modmakers probably prefer the people too be creative and not stick too something

 

[Kirameki]

I have to admit I like the Botania book, mainly because it actually keeps the last page you were on and has a back feature. This makes life so much easier to look up a recipe and keep it persistent while I gather materials so I don't have to keep scrolling through 9001 pages to get back to where I was. The organization does confuse me sometimes (can't tell what category something I'm looking for belongs in), but that one feature really makes it nice.
I have to say, though, I personally *don't* like when there's only video documentation. I like to research mods at work, where videos are...frowned upon, written wikis on websites are quite useful for this purpose - assuming they're kept up to date.

 

[Azzanine]

Frankly any sort of clear and concise documentation will do. In fact all of them should and can be done by different parties.

Extra utilities actually does this in a rather effective manner by utilizing NEI.

Also which mod/s have an in game wikki? I've never seen that before? I've seen manuals that are of a hard encyclopedic nature but nothing like a wikki where the community can add and moderate the information.

 

[Democretes]

Frankly any sort of clear and concise documentation will do. In fact all of them should and can be done by different parties.

Extra utilities actually does this in a rather effective manner by utilizing NEI.

Also which mod/s have an in game wikki? I've never seen that before? I've seen manuals that are of a hard encyclopedic nature but nothing like a wikki where the community can add and moderate the information.

I don't mean a literal wiki, but the way docs like Botania is set up, it's basically a one-man-wiki. All the info is just tossed into one spot for access.

 

[RJS]

Botania does have the italicised entries to indicate basic starting points. As a result, it's pretty straightforwards to get set up. Witchery has a nice setup where you need to have done the stuff in one book in order to have what you need to craft the next.

In terms of in-game wikis, my computer struggles to run FTB and Chrome at the same time, so I have no objection to them. Plus, it feels more right going to check a book rather than switching out of the game. At least,it does for me

 

[Yusunoha]

personally I prefer to have both, even more if the ingame wiki could get updated with information from the other wiki
I like what people are doing with HQM, they're basically creating ingame guides with quests that you read and need to complete to unlock the next quest
this helps the user through an ingame guide that they can follow and understand the mechanics before finishing a quest

I do like what mods like Thaumcraft and Ars Magica do, you unlock information step by step instead of drowning you in a sea of information right at the start

but please, for the love of god, if you're a mod developer and you're adding an ingame book, please, PLEASE don't use the vanilla book for information... some mods do this and I just can't stand how small the book is and how little information there is on each page and how much of a pain it is to scroll through the books.
if you add an ingame book, make a book that is large, so it can have enough information on each page, and add control to the book so you can easily scroll through chapters and such

 

[Azzanine]

I don't mean a literal wiki, but the way docs like Botania is set up, it's basically a one-man-wiki. All the info is just tossed into one spot for access.

Ohh so like a hyperlinked document, I see how that's similar to a wikki now.

 

[Cptqrk]

*snip*

please, for the love of god, if you're a mod developer and you're adding an ingame book, please, PLEASE don't use the vanilla book for information... some mods do this and I just can't stand how small the book is and how little information there is on each page and how much of a pain it is to scroll through the books.
if you add an ingame book, make a book that is large, so it can have enough information on each page, and add control to the book so you can easily scroll through chapters and such

So much this...

My thoughts? The way Thaumcraft opens up it's tec tree is awesome.. You don't get overwhelmed, and you learn as you go. Clearly labled tabs that you can see what they are going towards research wise also make this book the best in game (for me) when it comes to "you got a lotta learnin' to do" kind of books.

The Openblocks book (the World Domination with..) is a good blend of Name-Description-Pic-Youtube link... but it's kind of disorganized.

TiC books, while they hold a LOT of info, are a royal pain to navigate. What page was the silky modifier on again? What's the blend to make.... you get the point.

Thing is, as a player, the in game books are invaluable, as they will have the relevant information for the mod version you are using. Going (or forcing those who use your mod to go) to a wikki is hit and miss when it comes to this. Google any machine from TE and click on either of the wikki's links, and cross your fingers that you are looking at the right version. (not only MC version, but the update versions of the actual mods themselves)

So, I guess I'll have to go with in game documentation/books, but I would like to see folks get a bit more organized with them.

Damn, that was a long post.... I need to go back to bed.. lol

 

[Yusunoha]

So much this...

My thoughts? The way Thaumcraft opens up it's tec tree is awesome.. You don't get overwhelmed, and you learn as you go. Clearly labled tabs that you can see what they are going towards research wise also make this book the best in game (for me) when it comes to "you got a lotta learnin' to do" kind of books.

The Openblocks book (the World Domination with..) is a good blend of Name-Description-Pic-Youtube link... but it's kind of disorganized.

TiC books, while they hold a LOT of info, are a royal pain to navigate. What page was the silky modifier on again? What's the blend to make.... you get the point.

Thing is, as a player, the in game books are invaluable, as they will have the relevant information for the mod version you are using. Going (or forcing those who use your mod to go) to a wikki is hit and miss when it comes to this. Google any machine from TE and click on either of the wikki's links, and cross your fingers that you are looking at the right version. (not only MC version, but the update versions of the actual mods themselves)

So, I guess I'll have to go with in game documentation/books, but I would like to see folks get a bit more organized with them.

Damn, that was a long post.... I need to go back to bed.. lol

the ingame documentation of Witchery is one of the reasons I barely use the mod...

does anyone know if it'd be possible to code a mod so there's a basic documentation available with the mod, and if there's an internet connection the mod could connect to an official wiki and perhaps update the ingame documentation or even add onto it?

 

[RJS]

So much this...

My thoughts? The way Thaumcraft opens up it's tec tree is awesome.. You don't get overwhelmed, and you learn as you go. Clearly labled tabs that you can see what they are going towards research wise also make this book the best in game (for me) when it comes to "you got a lotta learnin' to do" kind of books.

The Openblocks book (the World Domination with..) is a good blend of Name-Description-Pic-Youtube link... but it's kind of disorganized.

TiC books, while they hold a LOT of info, are a royal pain to navigate. What page was the silky modifier on again? What's the blend to make.... you get the point.

Thing is, as a player, the in game books are invaluable, as they will have the relevant information for the mod version you are using. Going (or forcing those who use your mod to go) to a wikki is hit and miss when it comes to this. Google any machine from TE and click on either of the wikki's links, and cross your fingers that you are looking at the right version. (not only MC version, but the update versions of the actual mods themselves)

So, I guess I'll have to go with in game documentation/books, but I would like to see folks get a bit more organized with them.

Damn, that was a long post.... I need to go back to bed.. lol

As far as other ways go, I really like how Extra Utilities does it. The function of pretty much every block is explained as part of an NEI tab. It's one of the reasons why I find it so user-friendly. I do think there needs to be more 'tab' functionality with some guidebooks. For example, the second TiCon book (the most useful one IMO) could really use the ability for the contents page to jump you to the relevant section - for example, clicking on 'Modifiers' should take you to the very start of the Modifiers section. The bookmarks that you can put into the Lexica Botania are also a really neat feature

 

[Padfoote]

Alright, I'll chime in with my (probably) biased opinion. I can't stand additional items like books in game, regardless of how it's setup. If I had to support an in-game resource, it would be in guide format with a config option to disable it, including if it spawns with you when you create / first join a world or not. I would still take an external guide over an in-game one any day, but could support one if I had the option to disable it.

 

[ratchet freak]

one of the problems with ingame guide books is that if you lose it you will need to recreate the guide book

 

[Democretes]

the ingame documentation of Witchery is one of the reasons I barely use the mod...

does anyone know if it'd be possible to code a mod so there's a basic documentation available with the mod, and if there's an internet connection the mod could connect to an official wiki and perhaps update the ingame documentation or even add onto it?

You'd probably have to set a new mod to create a different book for each mod. It would be possible to overwrite the books, but not a good idea.

 

[Hambeau]

An in-game tutorial for mods is one of the main uses I hope to see the Quest book from the Agskies/Crash landing (HQM?) put to. The tiered content capability (opening new content after other content is complete) already exists and the mod already is available in customizable form. Perhaps it might be possible to generate a multi-volume quest book for those really complex mods?

 

[RedBoss]

The Thaumonomicon is built into Thaumcraft as a core tome. Crafting it is part of the mod progression. Most other books are useless to me. I'd rather read a wiki than read a book inside Minecraft. The text is too blocky, sizes vary wildly, the navigation is horrible, and it clutters my inventory.

I remember testing a modpack once and I started the world with 5 books! That's just annoying. Granted I'm experienced but when I start a new world, I chuck away any books before I punch a tree. I hate them.

I'd prefer a wiki. I can alt-tab and read things formatted in a way that most computer users are familiar with. I dont have to flip 18 pages and lose the page if I look away. In game books are just a nuisance for the most part. We need wikis.

 

[Hambeau]

The Thaumonomicon is built into Thaumcraft as a core tome. Crafting it is part of the mod progression. Most other books are useless to me. I'd rather read a wiki than read a book inside Minecraft. The text is too blocky, sizes vary wildly, the navigation is horrible, and it clutters my inventory.

I remember testing a modpack once and I started the world with 5 books! That's just annoying. Granted I'm experienced but when I start a new world, I chuck away any books before I punch a tree. I hate them.

I'd prefer a wiki. I can alt-tab and read things formatted in a way that most computer users are familiar with. I dont have to flip 18 pages and lose the page if I look away. In game books are just a nuisance for the most part. We need wikis.

Personally, I don't trust wikis. I've seen too much on-line misinformation, probably intentionally created by trolls or other miscreants who think it's great fun to mess with other peoples' work. I've been "connected" since DARPAnet was the only on-line experience (if you could get access, that is) and have since learned to take anything found on the internet with enough salt to give a sperm whale angina.

 

[ratchet freak]

Personally, I don't trust wikis. I've seen too much on-line misinformation, probably intentionally created by trolls or other miscreants who think it's great fun to mess with other peoples' work. I've been "connected" since DARPAnet was the only on-line experience (if you could get access, that is) and have since learned to take anything found on the internet with enough salt to give a sperm whale angina.

or outdated information

 

[RJS]

Personally, I don't trust wikis. I've seen too much on-line misinformation, probably intentionally created by trolls or other miscreants who think it's great fun to mess with other peoples' work. I've been "connected" since DARPAnet was the only on-line experience (if you could get access, that is) and have since learned to take anything found on the internet with enough salt to give a sperm whale angina.

I have to say this is one of the main reasons I like having in-game documentation, as the information there tends to be more reliable than from some other places, which may be wrong or just out-dated.

I do agree with RedBoss though, I wish books didn't spawn on you. Make the books craftable, using very basic stuff from the mod that can be found in NEI. That way, people that want it can have it and people who don't want the book or aren't bothered about the mod can ignore the book.