Gregtechs role in the modpacks.

[YX33A]

Personally, I only use the FTB launcher because it is easy to not only disable a mod, but also enable it again. Makes my constant debugging much easier. How could this be made better? Since GT is such a polarizing mod and it's set to "hard mode" by default in all modpacks its in, I would LOVE to see a easy way to swap it from "hard mode" to "easy mode" or even "insanity mode", if that last one is actually a real thing and not just a rehash of "hard mode".
Of course, the fact that it defaults to "hard mode" doesn't bother me. I make exactly one change to the configs if I make any, and that's the Tin Pincher setting(I set it back to 16 cells per craft).
Also, just an aside, 'tis a very nice Sig, Lambert. The only way it could be more English would be if the creeper was having a cup of tea.
Speaking of which, my kettle is ready. Cheers.

 

[Dackstrus]

I was really quite disapointed to find out i would be forced to hunt for a specific ultimate server who'd changed their configs. :/ It's really obnoxious to deal with.

 

[Dravarden]

Oh hey, the weekly greg and his nerfs discussion, nice!

Well, as most of you know, I hate greg for all the changes it does, but not for the stuff it adds (they could be quite interesting actually) and I really need an "not changing other mods recipes" config (or what you call easy) because, every freaking update, have to deal with that crap "boolean 1=true 0=false, do abcd and put numbers here and there #enableSomethinYouHaveNoFuckingIdeaWhatItDoes 12385629 abdsgtjmg" is just a waste of time. I rather have a config already done (that works in every update)

 

[Jyzarc]

From what I have discovered there is no way to turn off all the things hes nerfed, such as scaffold (you know, because scaffold should be an end game item ) I don't like that it is on hard mode on the ultimate and tech worlds. I understand mindcrack because thats meant for their server. Also you didn't mention yogscraft, which is actually a pretty decent modpack for those who want less mods/hate gregtech

 

[raiju]

Everyone should watch this:

Another video that convinces people of an idea with misinformation.. to cover a few:

A) The crowd against EE2 has always been significantly larger htan the crowd against doubling minerals
B) These aren't comparable because EE2 didn't care what you mined up, if you had seen the material you want once before you could make it. You could also recycle with 100% efficiency (something we don't usually see in other mos, making it incompatible)
C) The time scale was completely different to reaching the mods "endgame". This isn't really a point of contention as much as some people disliked their survival being creative mode in 3 hours (or others on their server), others enjoyed it. Whatever your reasons may be on either side. A lot of people could understand the other persons POV here even if they disagreed with it.
D) MMO's have had competition for decades. I imagine he's talking about WoW as that's the most successful one but what about Ultima? GW (which didn't have a monthly sub and was grindy!)? Everquest - the game which WoW was designed from and who's best players were used as developers? They grind because people don't mind repetition if they choose to do it.
E) A rant isn't an editorial just because you call it one. It's still a rant
F) Gregtech's changes on IC2 are very rarely cause of issue once someone has got to grips with NEI, outside of the matter fab. People dislike things like the forestry bronze nerf much greater than a macerator requiring diamonds from my experience on the 3 relevant forums.
G) He states that if you don't like a mod (he states game and applies it to EE2, but w/e.). instead of demanding change you should just play another. This is completely hypocritical with his comments on gregtech config. I disagree with the first comment and agree with the latter that if you don't like a game you should feel entitled to provide constructive feedback (although not necessarily expect it to be used). The problem here is you can't have your cake and eat it. EE2 and gregtech can't both be wrong when EE2 responded to feedback about difficulty and gregtech doesn't. Either EE2 is right for responding to feedback and their game was flawed for the desired audience (something Enigmius will probably never agree to), or gregtech is wrong for not responding to feedback, and their game is already working for their desired audience (something I doubt he will agree to either)
H+) Maybe if I can finish the video I will make more comments.

I have no problems with people presenting their opinion, if you liked the original EE2 and dislike gregtech that's fine for you. I don't have a problem with that. It becomes an issue when you are giving others misinformation by claiming EE2's difficulty was right and gregtechs was wrong (OT to OP, I know I know). If you don't want gregtech on hardmode in the modpack I have no issues with that at all. I believe that someone running a server should be sufficient enough to set up configs and if the MAJORITY want it easy, that's most beneficial to all involved is it not? But claiming configs for putting it on easy mode then denying the same argument for having it on hardmode is ridiculous.

Meh... Such blatant spinner videos annoy me.

 

[vasouv]

I just remembered, there's this thread from Velotican who's made an Easy and Brutal config for GregTech. I guess it's the easiest workaround for now?

 

[Neirin]

That video is interesting and makes several nice points, but I'm afraid he missed a few key points about game design. The most obvious is his argument that the config is a cop-out. Most games have multiple difficulty settings, if you look at the GT config as a very specific version of that, it's actually quite incredible. The config is actually my favorite thing about GT, though the I think characterizing some of the changes possible as "easy mode" is both a bit too simplistic and potentially a little insulting depending on the context. That's more of a community problem than a fundamental flaw in the mod.

I would also posit that something can be OP even if you're not in a competition and its presence doesn't affect anyone but you. I wouldn't say there are too many serious offenders where FTB-style modded minecraft is concerned, but if something is disproportionately good at whatever you're trying to achieve relative to other options, it is harmful to the gaming experience. If once particular path is too strong or easy, it can limit the scope of gameplay most people will experience or at the very least, skew the decision making process. The Yogscast Tekkit series was a pretty good illustration of that - regardless of what they were doing a lot of design decisions basically came down to a question of whether or not to use condensers.

 

[YX33A]

From what I have discovered there is no way to turn off all the things hes nerfed, such as scaffold (you know, because scaffold should be an end game item ) I don't like that it is on hard mode on the ultimate and tech worlds. I understand mindcrack because thats meant for their server. Also you didn't mention yogscraft, which is actually a pretty decent modpack for those who want less mods/hate gregtech

Well, to be fair, the scaffold nerf was because you could take about two logs and make, what was it, 16 scaffolds? It was actually really stupid to make charcoal if you could make scaffolds because scaffolds were just as good as a wooden plank, and you got a lot for what they cost, so you got a load of EU from them. Originally he tried turning down the burn value of scaffolds, which didn't work for some reason(can turn it up, but not down), so he just made you get less when you crafted them.

Many of his Nerfs which you can't turn off were done for similar reasons. Tin Buckets for example can not be turned back on because it was really easy to turn them into Iron Ingots if you had RP2, and still can be(without GT, that is).
Forestry Bronze? Aside from the fact you can turn that back on(or so I've been told, never tried nor looked), this was "nerfed" because you had no reason to use the IC2 Bronze recipe if you had Forestry because you got double the bronze from Forestry, and it was much easier to do.(just smelt copper and tin, then add them together in a crafting table, where as in IC2 you need a Macerator to get dusts, and you only got half as much Bronze for your work)

Many of his "nerfs" can be turned off, or configured to not be a issue. But then again, that requires working with his Configs, and not everyone cares enough to fix it, but many love to complain about it.

 

[Peppe]

On the configs the mod itself can support alternate configs in a clean way. Look at how forestry does it. You have a main config with difficulty level and then 3 isolated config files that correspond to each difficulty level.
If you want to play forestry on 'hard' mode you switch one line in the main config file.

For servers this change would have to be communicated to users, which is not ideal. Servers basically have to use the packs in default configs or have a user base that can edit a line in the config file (this is a larger discriminator than it should be).

For the typical user it would be ideal for the client/forge to sync local configs to the server you are trying to join.

 

[KirinDave]

Many of his Nerfs which you can't turn off were done for similar reasons. Tin Buckets for example can not be turned back on because it was really easy to turn them into Iron Ingots if you had RP2, and still can be(without GT, that is).
Forestry Bronze? Aside from the fact you can turn that back on(or so I've been told, never tried nor looked), this was "nerfed" because you had no reason to use the IC2 Bronze recipe if you had Forestry because you got double the bronze from Forestry, and it was much easier to do.(just smelt copper and tin, then add them together in a crafting table, where as in IC2 you need a Macerator to get dusts, and you only got half as much Bronze for your work)

The Forestry bronze is sort of a dead issue. Originally Greg wanted Bronze to be an inferior-yield copper alloy and have brass be the 4->4 recipe. But people who could use the forestry recipe could then use the centrifuge to make infinite resources with a much lower power cost. So he nerfed forestry bronze. But it turns out that really hoses anyone using Forestry, so later he changed it so that if you turn it off his centrifuge recipes got fixed. I don't have the link onhand, but Greg once admitted this was probably a "bad idea" which is about as close as he gets to saying, "I made a mistake."

These days the entire issue seems even more moot because of lava centrifuging, which can be semi-infinite resources and in Ultimate can actually be very slightly power positive.

 

[Jyzarc]

Well, to be fair, the scaffold nerf was because you could take about two logs and make, what was it, 16 scaffolds? It was actually really stupid to make charcoal if you could make scaffolds because scaffolds were just as good as a wooden plank, and you got a lot for what they cost, so you got a load of EU from them. Originally he tried turning down the burn value of scaffolds, which didn't work for some reason(can turn it up, but not down), so he just made you get less when you crafted them.

Many of his Nerfs which you can't turn off were done for similar reasons. Tin Buckets for example can not be turned back on because it was really easy to turn them into Iron Ingots if you had RP2, and still can be(without GT, that is).
Forestry Bronze? Aside from the fact you can turn that back on(or so I've been told, never tried nor looked), this was "nerfed" because you had no reason to use the IC2 Bronze recipe if you had Forestry because you got double the bronze from Forestry, and it was much easier to do.(just smelt copper and tin, then add them together in a crafting table, where as in IC2 you need a Macerator to get dusts, and you only got half as much Bronze for your work)

Many of his "nerfs" can be turned off, or configured to not be a issue. But then again, that requires working with his Configs, and not everyone cares enough to fix it, but many love to complain about it.

For some reason I don't really see anyone having a scaffold powered factory, I mean if you have to automate the wood collection anyways why not just turn it into charcoal? And why would you want to turn tin into a much more common resource anyways.

 

[Whovian]

These days the entire issue seems even more moot because of lava centrifuging, which can be semi-infinite resources and in Ultimate can actually be very slightly power positive.

Using Electric Engines (powered off of solar power, of course) to power a Magma Crucible running off of Cobble, lava centrifuging can be done infinitely. And fairly simply, though not at all easily.

 

[YX33A]

For some reason I don't really see anyone having a scaffold powered factory, I mean if you have to automate the wood collection anyways why not just turn it into charcoal? And why would you want to turn tin into a much more common resource anyways.

The reason it was nerfed is because it provided much more EU to make Scaffolds then charcoal. And if you had TE you could take one log and multiply the EU from it by 16 by running it through a Sawmill, which also generated sawdust which could be made into charcoal with enough of it.

 

[Jyzarc]

The reason it was nerfed is because it provided much more EU to make Scaffolds then charcoal. And if you had TE you could take one log and multiply the EU from it by 16 by running it through a Sawmill, which also generated sawdust which could be made into charcoal with enough of it.

Why not just set up a solar factory then?

 

[Lambert2191]

Why not just set up a solar factory then?

because solars, be it GT or IC2, are boring methods of generating power.

 

[jumpfight5]

Cause they're pricy. And some people like having a system that generates energy instead of a box.

Eh, I'm half&half for solars, I don't have them set up atm, but I will....Eventually. I think?

 

[Jyzarc]

because solars, be it GT or IC2, are boring methods of generating power.

Oh, and scaffold factories aren't?

 

[Lambert2191]

Oh, and scaffold factories aren't?

it's less boring than solars certainly.

 

[Dravarden]

because solars, be it GT or IC2, are boring methods of generating power.

The forgecraft server has different opinions on that, specially neptune, chickenbones and direwolf

 

[Lambert2191]

The forgecraft server has different opinions on that, specially neptune, chickenbones and direwolf

the fun part of what they're doing is automating the creation of the solars. That could be fun. Using the solars is as far removed from fun as possible.
"Oh how fun is this, I right clicked and now I have power forever!!!"