Greg Tech opinion discussions go here

[stamgast]

http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=7156&pageNo=854

"I will give you your Pumpkin back, just because of the general stupidness you have shown. You promised to cease fire with that Wood conflict, then you readded it with a conflicting Config, just so that you can become the "Hero" for a lot of retards. You plain lied to people without any reason except for attacking me. That is just low. You deserve the Pumpkin of Shame more than Immibis does for annoying me with his targeted Code against me. I didn't lie anywhere in this war, but I saw you talking untrue things around here. "


i dont think people seem to get how many people greg has issue with thats 2 now i can count on the ic2 forums (and both moders). that means somthing must stink. becouse where there is smoke there is fire. so somthing in his aditude must be wrong. and the coding implementing for crashing is wrong as wel. im sorry but i think greg should have a cool down period and that means not adding to a mod pack for a wile . as he cant be trusted. so i hope slowpoke witl do the desent think and lets us choos wheter to add greg or not. as he lost all respect for me. as also he insults ftb users tekkit users etc etc on the ic2 forums. im just wondering one thing . is he like 12 or so ?

 

[Mirality]

how is this not malicious? malicious software by definition is code that interferes with a computer's common function, and/or sends personal data to unauthorized parties.​

Greg, by inserting his little piece of code here, intentionally interfered with the computer's function. Therefore it is malicious.​

​

No, that's not how it works.

Forget the term "crash", that's a loaded word that's distorting the issue. What Greg did was to make it so that if his mod detected something that it didn't like while it was starting up, it stopped and said "oh dear, your config is messed up, please fix that". Almost every single MC mod does exactly the same thing -- and most of the time you WANT them to do this, because generally the things they're checking for are things that will corrupt your world if you don't fix them first.

In this case, the mod was checking for "some other mod changed my mod", and refusing to continue when this was the case. This is not an unreasonable thing to do (although a much more "optional" and less "world-breaking" event), and not even in itself a malicious thing to do -- though obviously it limits which mods can be used together, which might cause players to not want to use one or the other of the mods. I guess Greg was assuming that his one would "win". But again, this is not unreasonable -- after all, a mod author is perfectly justified to make their mod work how they want it to, and not have anyone else "break" it. (And this is also not new. Look at RedPower.) And if you don't like it, well, nobody is forcing you to play with GregTech or with TConstruct, or any other mod.

(Personally, I haven't used either mod yet, but I'm more interested in playing with TConstruct than GregTech anyway. I've never been particularly interested in "hard mode".)

 

[egor66]

I see from what I have read from over night & this morning things are escalating again, I was trying a new 162 mod & come back to all this, oh well guess I'll go check see what all the elitist's over at gregs have to say but pretty sure I can guess before hand!.

The stupidity rolls on & on, at least some ppl on gregs are trying to have a meaning full debate, with out the insulting/condescending/patronizing attitude normally show, to that small hand full GG guys, may be there is still hope for the human race, just maybe, excluding greg ofc he is his normal charming self.

PS what this thing on gregs about ftb forums down ?, normally Sunday midday is maintenance atm I see no issues.

 

[Omegatron]

In this case, the mod was checking for "some other mod changed my mod", and refusing to continue when this was the case. This is not an unreasonable thing to do (although a much more "optional" and less "world-breaking" event), and not even in itself a malicious thing to do -- though obviously it limits which mods can be used together, which might cause players to not want to use one or the other of the mods. I guess Greg was assuming that his one would "win". But again, this is not unreasonable -- after all, a mod author is perfectly justified to make their mod work how they want it to, and not have anyone else "break" it.​

​

Except that Greg specifically made it so that the game would stop loading. If he hadn't the game would have loaded fine with no issues and the recipe would be changed back to normal.

 

[Hoho]

Yes, I know about both of those. But they're beta. I prefer to wait for the release version. Remains to be seen if a GT free version will be released in final. My expressing my opinion is a means to help make sure it happens.

Slow has confirmed there will be two packs and the one containing GT will be tailored specifically to follow the design concept of GT.

BTW, I don't need your justification for my preferences. As my comments note, I am aware it's fine to like or not like things.

Exactly the same thing can be said about what features modders choose to implement and what they decide to provide as default config values


Offtopic: am I the only one not being able to access the forums most of the time and be presented with some "try loading again" page?

 

[Brilliance]

Offtopic: am I the only one not being able to access the forums most of the time and be presented with some "try loading again" page?

I've been getting a lot of blank pages and the 'retry for fresh copy' thing, too. Since yesterday I guess, although I suppose that could be down to me reloading more often since I started keeping up with these new debates.

 

[Mirality]

Except that Greg specifically made it so that the game would stop loading. If he hadn't the game would have loaded fine with no issues and the recipe would be changed back to normal.

So? As long as he didn't corrupt your world in the process (and nothing that I have heard suggests that this was the case), I don't see a problem with this. Granted, it would annoy me and make me not want to use one or both of the mods involved, but the mod author is fully within their rights to refuse to let someone else modify the recipes added by the mod. (I think they're nicer people if they don't refuse, or if they provide config options to opt out, but they do have the right to keep their vision intact.)

And as a player you can always choose to change the configs of the mod, or not update to that version of the mod, or to not use that mod at all.

 

[Hyperme]

In this case, the mod was checking for "some other mod changed my mod", and refusing to continue when this was the case. This is not an unreasonable thing to do (although a much more "optional" and less "world-breaking" event), and not even in itself a malicious thing to do -- though obviously it limits which mods can be used together, which might cause players to not want to use one or the other of the mods. I guess Greg was assuming that his one would "win". But again, this is not unreasonable -- after all, a mod author is perfectly justified to make their mod work how they want it to, and not have anyone else "break" it.

While ignoring any form of context is effective when arguing against sea slime, I'm fairly sure everyone here is human, and thus have brain cells to rub together. Greg has changed other mods recipes, and made one of these changes irreversible. This makes it entirely unreasonable for him to complain when someone decides to change his mod, since he's already done the thing he's crying about.


Also some people (you know who you are, and should be ashamed of yourselves) are attempting to defend Greg's tantrum with 'but other mods throw exceptions too!'. Yes, they do. That's because exceptions are designed to be thrown, you idiots. However, you throw them when something actually goes wrong, not when someone changes a recipe and you don't like it. Also it helps if your exception actual says something useful instead of denying the possibility that you are at fault.

 

[Uriah_Heep]

So? As long as he didn't corrupt your world in the process (and nothing that I have heard suggests that this was the case), I don't see a problem with this. Granted, it would annoy me and make me not want to use one or both of the mods involved, but the mod author is fully within their rights to refuse to let someone else modify the recipes added by the mod. (I think they're nicer people if they don't refuse, or if they provide config options to opt out, but they do have the right to keep their vision intact.)

My understanding based off of dev discussions during game live streams yesterday was that GT implemented the crash at the end of the world load resulting in potential world corruption. Most (not all) crash code for unauthorized modpack use etc, implemented in the past has been done during initialization before world load so this seemed intended to do damage on a larger scale to get attention. I have not seen this documented in the threads only discussed verbally over the twitch feeds, I have reviewed the code posted here for Mdiyo's mod and am not sure if the GT code is open to review for verification. As a server admin I have good backup copies of the world for rollbacks but not all players are as fortunate.

I am in support of moving forward with WGT and NGT packs. I have in the past been a big fan of GT added content but simply cannot run WGT versions on my server going forward to protect my player base from potential malicious actions.

 

[Hoho]

This makes it entirely unreasonable for him to complain when someone decides to change his mod, since he's already done the thing he's crying about.

You are missing the point that it has never been about the fact that his recipe was changed. It has always been about the way HOW it was done

 

[egor66]

Is there anything left to say on this: side A greg was wrong for XX, plus XX reason, side B but if a XX then it would not happen, plus XX over & over. even a dog gets tired of a bone after awhile.

 

[Cacofiend]

​

No, that's not how it works.

Forget the term "crash", that's a loaded word that's distorting the issue. What Greg did was to make it so that if his mod detected something that it didn't like while it was starting up, it stopped and said "oh dear, your config is messed up, please fix that". Almost every single MC mod does exactly the same thing -- and most of the time you WANT them to do this, because generally the things they're checking for are things that will corrupt your world if you don't fix them first.

In this case, the mod was checking for "some other mod changed my mod", and refusing to continue when this was the case. This is not an unreasonable thing to do (although a much more "optional" and less "world-breaking" event), and not even in itself a malicious thing to do -- though obviously it limits which mods can be used together, which might cause players to not want to use one or the other of the mods. I guess Greg was assuming that his one would "win". But again, this is not unreasonable -- after all, a mod author is perfectly justified to make their mod work how they want it to, and not have anyone else "break" it. (And this is also not new. Look at RedPower.) And if you don't like it, well, nobody is forcing you to play with GregTech or with TConstruct, or any other mod.

(Personally, I haven't used either mod yet, but I'm more interested in playing with TConstruct than GregTech anyway. I've never been particularly interested in "hard mode".)

I'd rather not forget the term crash. Not because I'm married to the term, but because the code in question amounts to the same thing. In this case, I'd be unable to load into the game. You don't have to call it a crash if you don't want to, but a rose by any other name and all that jazz; it's still not letting someone log in.

In any case, I'd say that this is unreasonable for a number of reasons:

1.) You're essentially asserting that your mod take priority over all others. In a total conversion (i.e. standalone) this would be expected. In the case of Feed the Beast, there are multiple mods, all of them adding their own "flavor", which brings me to -

2.) Once a single mod author asserts his mod has the final word, we open up the potential for infinite regress. If Greg is justified in crashing the client, so is anyone else that declares their mod is most important, which defeats the purpose. As a small aside -

3.) Why is one mod's decision that their mod is most important more valuable than anothers?

4.) Both sides of this argument have argued that the wood plank issue, on its face, is trivial. If it's no big deal, there's not much of a case to nerf it in the first place, much less a case to cause the client to screech to a halt because another mod changes it back. The logic doesn't work on any level.

5.) Yes, anyone that wants to is welcome to get rid of GregTech. I'd rather not, but I suppose I will if the prevailing attitude is "I'll do as I please because my decision is most important". I would suggest, however, that anyone using this argument in the future at least try to dress it up a little. (In an ideal world, it wouldn't appear anymore at all, because it's entirely beside the point, but I digress).

 

[Amp]

Putting aside the crash-code-slapfest for a moment, I think there's a slightly more interesting discussion to be had.

Granted, I never did like the idea of Greg deliberately altering other mods with his own, since they are not his mods to alter. Among other ethics issues which includes this weird thing about GregTech that asserts itself as some sort of leader-of-all-mods when it's installed.

However, the more I think of it, I kinda would like to see how the modders on the other side of the table (who don't appreciate Greg's "balance" efforts) would react to the idea of a mod explicitly and only existing to alter the balance of several Forge/FTB-pack mods, and with no other purpose.

Because for all the shit that gets flinged about people who say "May as well be Creative" you actually could make an argument that extending the endgame will thus extend the lifespan of a server.

 

[FrankieTheSnake]

Things between mdiyo and greg are escalating again and honestly I don't want to see any mdiyo or greg's mods gone. the thing is, this probably all happend when they were both mad and they probably never wanted this to happen. but now they are doing the same thing again and now may the time be the best for someone else to step in, I don't know the thoughts about others about this rather sensitive subject but the time is now.

 

[Uriah_Heep]

Putting aside the crash-code-slapfest for a moment, I think there's a slightly more interesting discussion to be had.

Granted, I never did like the idea of Greg deliberately altering other mods with his own, since they are not his mods to alter. Among other ethics issues which includes this weird thing about GregTech that asserts itself as some sort of leader-of-all-mods when it's installed.

However, the more I think of it, I kinda would like to see how the modders on the other side of the table (who don't appreciate Greg's "balance" efforts) would react to the idea of a mod explicitly and only existing to alter the balance of several Forge/FTB-pack mods, and with no other purpose.

Because for all the shit that gets flinged about people who say "May as well be Creative" you actually could make an argument that extending the endgame will thus extend the lifespan of a server.

I do have to say that I disagree with the sentiment expressed by many that GT only exists to modify MC and mods and lacks any creativity. It adds a lot of very cool end game content and machines. I think Greg is a very imaginative modder. Unfortunately I also think he did more than cross a line here, he did a Mexican hat dance all over the line maracas in hand and took a bow afterwards. I am not in support of Mdiyos actions either but I do not find them offensive or damaging enough to strip any mods he develops from future server builds.

 

[Mirality]

I'd rather not forget the term crash. Not because I'm married to the term, but because the code in question amounts to the same thing. In this case, I'd be unable to load into the game. You don't have to call it a crash if you don't want to, but a rose by any other name and all that jazz; it's still not letting someone log in.

It won't let you log in if you have two mods that are trying to use the same block id. Or if one requires a newer version of Forge than you have installed. It's not much different in action, albeit somewhat different in principle.

1.) You're essentially asserting that your mod take priority over all others. In a total conversion (i.e. standalone) this would be expected. In the case of Feed the Beast, there are multiple mods, all of them adding their own "flavor", which brings me to -

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here (again, I've never really been interested in using GT myself), but I thought the whole point of GT (particularly hardmode) is that it was a total conversion and people were interested in using it precisely because it changes all the recipes to make things "harder". As such those people might not appreciate it if some completely unrelated mod suddenly swooped in and changed something back. (Now if there were config options on either side, or if it was a completely separate and standalone mod that did nothing but change the recipe back, that's different, as that's then putting control back in the hands of the player.)

There's also possible issues with server vs. client changes; I don't know if this applies to this particular case but I'm sure that you can see that if a server is configured a particular way the admins won't want players to use client-side mods to counteract this.


I'm not really trying to defend either "side" (personally I think both of them acted badly), I'm just saying that it's not as bad as some people seem to want to claim. And throwing around words like "crash" and "malware" is certainly not helping.

 

[LordBufu]

I was typing a whole long constructive post about things, but i gave up as it turned into a page long rant about Greg and his Tech.

In short it comes down to this:

• I like somethings in Gregtech, but a lot of things i dont like, like for example the silicon plates needed for the first tier of solar panels.
• I dont mind him doing his anoying thing, as long as i can push the config files i need to change to revert it to the clients that want to play my server. Witch i cant and its becomming more and more and pain in the rear end the more Greg keeps changing things into retarded long crafting processes.
• It would be better to just be able to disable gregtech server side, without having to replicated files to clients or without having them remove the mod so they can play on your server.

Punch line is, gimme some more options to remove this crap in a proper way from my server, i'm sick of it already i dint start playing\hosting FTB to spend hours looking at a crafting bench and recipes to get somewhere (well upto a certain extend, but with Greg on hard its all you do really and maybe stick something into a machine every once in while to keep the process rolling). Atm if you want to play some mod packs your just being forced into Gregtech its hard mode, and when you don't want it you have to change it and for a server that means you have to push the files manually to all clients.

Its 2013 ffs there must be some better way to get this sorted in some good manor, so we can all enjoy FTB like we want it to be.

Or Greg should just make recipes a bit more balanced and less retarded, although i doubt he will ever consider doing that, so ill rather opt for any of the above options before we/i start using packs that simply don't include Gregtech and thus start to miss out on other cool stuff cause of it.

Still a to long post, and proll still a bit of rant, but hey thats just the way i feel about it and im sure after reading this topic there are a lot more out there that feel more or less the same about it.

Kg

 

[Bedebao]

Couldn't read everything,but from what i've seen,greg is completely crazy
I like his mod,but I will not play it if he starts behaving like Tekkit,by illegally modifing other mods(The irony is,he also crashed Tekkit because it was illegal)

 

[DREVL]

I tried mindcrack. First turn off was the screen of text at world creation that made me feel that greg has a sandy vag about a great number of things. DId my best to progress up through everything outside of GT because I saw it as a resource black hole, but I wanted to atleast see if there were any advantages GT provided in the beginning and end games that would help as a bridge across several other mods as alt recipies. (I appreciate the flexibility of using all my inventories) I always have copper supply problems, or in fact redstone supply, and even iron sometimes. kinda wish alt recipies weren't so much harder to make than their originals. atleast in mindcracks147 version it didn't seem terrible, but I just stopped the world, backed it up and put it on the shelf until I could find a reasonable way to get iridium. I am not interested in mining or even quarrying for days to find that crap. I was also getting lost in all of the GT ores and their purpose. I'll probably go back that way at somepoint, but in Ultimate FTB, not mindcrack.

 

[LordBufu]

is he like 12 or so ?

Funny how this was the first thing that popped into my mind after i saw a lot of the new features and additions to his new release plans.

I not implying anything there, just thought it was funny that i was talking about more or less the same with a fellow admin of mine.