Seriously, nobody other than sycophants "sided" with Greg crashing the game. There would not have been less.
Greg Tech opinion discussions go here
- Thread starter Jadedcat
- Start date
-
The FTB Forum is now read-only, and is here as an archive. To participate in our community discussions, please join our Discord! https://ftb.team/discord
- Status
Seriously, nobody other than sycophants "sided" with Greg crashing the game. There would not have been less.
Thanks for the perspectives, mDiyo and Wyld.
But it does present a point: GregTech is increasingly becoming a mod that's "GregTech primary, all others are attachments" type mod. That needs to be considered if GregTech is going to continue being included in packs that aren't specifically branded as for the "GregTech experience". Now that he's delving into changing more vanilla recipes and mechanics this needs to be addressed.
As for communication, I just checked the TConstruct github and I don't see anything at all from him there. I know he darn well can go in and create such issue reports if he wants to, as he's done it on Thermal Expansion's issue tracker in the past when there were recipe issues between the two mods there, so it's not like the expectation is unfair or alien. Thus I can only logically conclude that he opted not to take the official channel, in which case my sympathy meter remains very low.
The Pumpkin of Shame thing is what really sells me on this not just being a slip or unintended consequence, but whatever. Plausible deniability, yadda yadda, moving along.
Considering how much of his mod consists of doing this to everybody else, does anybody else find this stance rather hypocritical? "I can go in and muck with everybody else's recipes including the vanilla ones, but touch mine and it's a crash for you!" Don't even give me the "but he does it for the balance" excuse either, water carriers; Greg doesn't have a double-exclusive secret ninja modder license on balancing Minecraft.
But it does present a point: GregTech is increasingly becoming a mod that's "GregTech primary, all others are attachments" type mod. That needs to be considered if GregTech is going to continue being included in packs that aren't specifically branded as for the "GregTech experience". Now that he's delving into changing more vanilla recipes and mechanics this needs to be addressed.
As for communication, I just checked the TConstruct github and I don't see anything at all from him there. I know he darn well can go in and create such issue reports if he wants to, as he's done it on Thermal Expansion's issue tracker in the past when there were recipe issues between the two mods there, so it's not like the expectation is unfair or alien. Thus I can only logically conclude that he opted not to take the official channel, in which case my sympathy meter remains very low.
The Pumpkin of Shame thing is what really sells me on this not just being a slip or unintended consequence, but whatever. Plausible deniability, yadda yadda, moving along.
I think this is the money quote from mDiyo. If there's one piece of feedback from this thread that I hope the FTB Team takes into consideration as we look forward to the official 1.6 packs, it's this one. Some mods just are not meant to run in tandem. Given TConstruct's aesthetic and functionality, I'll admit I was surprised they were run together in the first place. The background noise just cements that in my mind. Hopefully feedback from the 152 packs will be useful in seeing any other bumps in the road.
You are asking the same questions over & over page after page in each of these topics, & repeating the same lines in reply you have done at times 4 times on one page, this is not adding to a debate its a form of trolling.
The crashing specific version of Gregtech has updated so it doesn't crash. I did have a 0.9 release of 1.5.2 FTB ready to roll, but .. this all occurred.
As I've said on the IC2 forums, I can not and will not release a pack that is *designed* to crash.
When I first heard about this whole fiasco, I was a little angry, but now i'm just sad. I'm sad because I can no longer trust greg, knowing that he will crash the the game every time he doesn't get his way. It really is a shame, because I did like many of the things in gregtech.
Again a gentle reminder that greg changes recipes of three mods outside vanilla and IC2 and all these are rather minor at that. All the other hardmode recipes using GT stuff or generally being expensive are added by the original mod authors.
Two problems with that. The wood un-nerf change never reached github and greg wasn't aware that TiC was OSS until after it was pointed out to him shortly before mDiyo removed his stuff.
I wasn't aware of this, but what I understand is it's a war on wood? It's pathetic and childish. People need to grow up. They are both good mods. I like the content Greg adds but I, personally, don't like the recipe changes. I think this the the same view most people have. T Construct adds some amazing tools and I love them more than Greg's content. Therefore, I will be sticking with T Construct. In my opinion, Greg should make the wood thing default to 4 pieces but keep the 2 pieces available in the configs and mDiyo should remove his 4 plank code while Greg removes his crash code. (Also, if anyone wants to try and get #WarOnWood trending on Twitter, let me know! xD)
I'll speak from a singleplayer standpoint: players are free to mod their games how they want, and if they want to exploit the various ways certain mods interact (hello Macerator-EE2 Blaze Rods!) then it's entirely their perogative to do so.
That said, the key word here is mod interaction. In all honesty, it's a mixed bag when it comes to mixing mods. Sometimes, mixing mods will do absolutely nothing. Other times, it allows you to pull off some ridiculous things. Frankly, it's how it will always be, and while steps can be taken to ensure mods work well with each other, you can't always guarantee it.
What I absolutely disagree with in this case, however, is strong-arming practically everything else in favor of your mod. The fact that Greg nerfed wood doesn't bother me in the least, but the fact that he intentionally created code to crash any other mod interacting with his modifications, whether the interactions are intentional or not. It's not just childish, it's a slap in the face to practically every other Minecraft modder.
Do I agree with mDiyo counter-changing against GT? Not really, but I can understand why.
He might not have intended it, but by doing this, Greg is practically sending a "My way or the highway" message if they ever intend to have their mods work in conjunction with his.
It's simply not a standpoint I can agree with at all since mod authors cannot control an individual installing multiple mods on their own. This isn't even a singleplayer problem anymore since this now forces server owners to make sure their mods now play well with each other, and to sneak in something like this is outright malicious. We've already had this problem before and we didn't need it to happen again.
But apparently it has.
That said, the key word here is mod interaction. In all honesty, it's a mixed bag when it comes to mixing mods. Sometimes, mixing mods will do absolutely nothing. Other times, it allows you to pull off some ridiculous things. Frankly, it's how it will always be, and while steps can be taken to ensure mods work well with each other, you can't always guarantee it.
What I absolutely disagree with in this case, however, is strong-arming practically everything else in favor of your mod. The fact that Greg nerfed wood doesn't bother me in the least, but the fact that he intentionally created code to crash any other mod interacting with his modifications, whether the interactions are intentional or not. It's not just childish, it's a slap in the face to practically every other Minecraft modder.
Do I agree with mDiyo counter-changing against GT? Not really, but I can understand why.
He might not have intended it, but by doing this, Greg is practically sending a "My way or the highway" message if they ever intend to have their mods work in conjunction with his.
It's simply not a standpoint I can agree with at all since mod authors cannot control an individual installing multiple mods on their own. This isn't even a singleplayer problem anymore since this now forces server owners to make sure their mods now play well with each other, and to sneak in something like this is outright malicious. We've already had this problem before and we didn't need it to happen again.
But apparently it has.
I think perhaps the best way to view GregTech is as a total conversion mod. For example TFC has done all sorts of things with vanilla, cobble obeys gravity, wood and trees are completely different .... The only thing is that GregTech is a total conversion of modded Minecraft rather than vanilla minecraft. I think he only hurts himself by trying to have it both ways, trying to be "just another mod you can add to your pack" as well as being a total conversion. As a total conversion of modded minecraft, he has to chase after all the mod updates as well as the vanilla updates all mod authors chase after. No wonder he has a lot of incomplete features piling up.
I would recommend he define a "GregPack", the list of mod versions and configs applied to vanilla that will be the basis of his total conversion. And then not care about exploits and bugs that arise out of deviating from the GregPack. No one cares if TFC plus some other random mod breaks the minecraft experience, it is sort of what you expect from a total conversion. No of course Greg can update the GregPack definition however he wants to best serve his userbase. And if someone wants to include GregTech as a mod in some other mix, they can of course do that, but understand that they will likely not get support from Greg. But by more closely defining the GregTech experience and focusing on that he can probably get more done developing it rather than trying to preserve the GregTech experience across every other possible mod that someone might want to mix with GregTech. Also the "modded minecraft total conversion" idea seems to fit with Greg's my way or the highway attitude.
Perhaps making this division will reduce the flamewars enough counteract global warming.
One could only hope.
I would recommend he define a "GregPack", the list of mod versions and configs applied to vanilla that will be the basis of his total conversion. And then not care about exploits and bugs that arise out of deviating from the GregPack. No one cares if TFC plus some other random mod breaks the minecraft experience, it is sort of what you expect from a total conversion. No of course Greg can update the GregPack definition however he wants to best serve his userbase. And if someone wants to include GregTech as a mod in some other mix, they can of course do that, but understand that they will likely not get support from Greg. But by more closely defining the GregTech experience and focusing on that he can probably get more done developing it rather than trying to preserve the GregTech experience across every other possible mod that someone might want to mix with GregTech. Also the "modded minecraft total conversion" idea seems to fit with Greg's my way or the highway attitude.
Perhaps making this division will reduce the flamewars enough counteract global warming.
One could only hope.
Oh man people still defending Greg being dumb and breaking thing because he had a tantrum. Does it hurt having (oh dear the rest of the sentence is gone)?
Anyhow mDiyo can put up to three irreversible changes to Gregtech in his mod, since that's the same about of irreversible changes Gregtech has. At least it was the last time I checked. I don't worry myself with trash.
Anyhow mDiyo can put up to three irreversible changes to Gregtech in his mod, since that's the same about of irreversible changes Gregtech has. At least it was the last time I checked. I don't worry myself with trash.
What has made you think he has ever tried to be that? He stated quite bluntly he doesn't care the slightest if his mod is included in any modpack.
I think perhaps the best way to view GregTech is as a total conversion mod. For example TFC has done all sorts of things with vanilla, cobble obeys gravity, wood and trees are completely different .... The only thing is that GregTech is a total conversion of modded Minecraft rather than vanilla minecraft. I think he only hurts himself by trying to have it both ways, trying to be "just another mod you can add to your pack" as well as being a total conversion. As a total conversion of modded minecraft, he has to chase after all the mod updates as well as the vanilla updates all mod authors chase after. No wonder he has a lot of incomplete features piling up.
I would recommend he define a "GregPack", the list of mod versions and configs applied to vanilla that will be the basis of his total conversion. And then not care about exploits and bugs that arise out of deviating from the GregPack. No one cares if TFC plus some other random mod breaks the minecraft experience, it is sort of what you expect from a total conversion. No of course Greg can update the GregPack definition however he wants to best serve his userbase. And if someone wants to include GregTech as a mod in some other mix, they can of course do that, but understand that they will likely not get support from Greg. But by more closely defining the GregTech experience and focusing on that he can probably get more done developing it rather than trying to preserve the GregTech experience across every other possible mod that someone might want to mix with GregTech. Also the "modded minecraft total conversion" idea seems to fit with Greg's my way or the highway attitude.
Perhaps making this division will reduce the flamewars enough counteract global warming.
I really do wish he'd just stop piggybacking off of other mods and just made his own total conversion mod. Honestly I think it'd be best not only for the players, but for himself. I really can only see positives from this approach. The Gregtech fanbase gets exactly what they want and those who really don't fool with GregTech won't have to deal with their favorite mods having to change something just to work around something Greg changes. A total conversion mod GregTech would be great! I may even play around with it if he took GregTech in this direction.
Hoho, gentle reminder or not, frankly almost nobody seems to care about the repeated chorus of apologia for Greg. He changes recipes. He tolerates no changes to his recipes. This is now indisputable QED, and it's rank hypocrisy. Stop trying to pretend there's some kind of mitigation "just" because he only does it to a few. That he does it to anybody he pleases and tolerates none of it done to his is enough. If he can't stand the heat, he should get the hell out of the kitchen.
When I refer to his lack of communication, I go back to mDiyo's mentioning the fortunesmelting incident as well. Greg has decided he's too good to collaborate in this instance. This wasn't the case in the past when there were issues like the ferrous ore multiplication making platinum dust->iridium centrifuging ridiculously simple and Greg wanting to inject some products/recipes of his own into the TE machines. I would mitigate this and say maybe Greg doesn't care, but the Pumpkin says otherwise.
TConstruct is made for whatever the hell mDiyo says its made for, not what you say it's for. If he wants to add dancing singing furbies that leap out of nowhere when you're quietly mining away, that's up to him. Greg doesn't get to have an exclusive license on determining what balance he wants in Minecraft when his mod is loaded.
When I refer to his lack of communication, I go back to mDiyo's mentioning the fortunesmelting incident as well. Greg has decided he's too good to collaborate in this instance. This wasn't the case in the past when there were issues like the ferrous ore multiplication making platinum dust->iridium centrifuging ridiculously simple and Greg wanting to inject some products/recipes of his own into the TE machines. I would mitigate this and say maybe Greg doesn't care, but the Pumpkin says otherwise.
TConstruct is made for whatever the hell mDiyo says its made for, not what you say it's for. If he wants to add dancing singing furbies that leap out of nowhere when you're quietly mining away, that's up to him. Greg doesn't get to have an exclusive license on determining what balance he wants in Minecraft when his mod is loaded.
If he doesn't care about being in any modpack, why bother with changing other mods?
Correction: it looks like people hate Greg for making a crash.
I'm sorry that my first post here is this one, but I just am stunned that someone would say "people hate Greg for making a mod" in the face of what he did. It just floors me. The deliberate crash. The crash. The crash! That's what people hate.
I for one am totally behind dancing singing furbies.
I should have clarified. By modpack I meant a public modpack like FTB. He does definitely want to have it in the custom private one he is playing himself. He also doesn't hate other mods, he just wants them to fit nicely with the mindset he uses for GT and occasionally changes them to do that.
- Status