Greg Tech opinion discussions go here

[Greyed]

My only regret is that in removing IC2 and GT months ago as redundant and uninteresting in light of where the rest of the modding community was going I cannot now proclaim, "I said uninstalled, SIR!" and uninstall it again.

I guess I could install it then go on about the business of righteous indignation, but I am in the middle of a several month-long self-imposed hiatus from Minecraft. Also, in unrelated news, I am also in the middle of my first every playthrough of Skyrim. Ok, those events are related. Does Greg make Skyrim mods? No? Rats, rules out that install/uninstall option, too.

Ok, serious hat on here for a second - Greg mucked around with other mods recipes and has now thrown a hissy-fit over someone messing with his recipes? I'm sorry, but I cannot muster one whit of sympathy for any modder who takes themselves so seriously. I know they put many hours of hard work into creating wonderful modifications that some of us enjoy. But in the end of the day they must not lose sight of the fact that they are modifying Mojang's product. Any modder who raises a stink about someone else modifying the behaviors of their mod is engaging in hypocrisy of a level that can be only described as epoch facepalm. Yes, a facepalm so staggeringly large it occurs only once every epoch. "You must not touch my code which touches Mojang's code, that's just wrong." Simply put, if Mojang got as pissy as they did about modifications this community as a whole would not exist.

 

[Hoho]

Another thing I'd like to hear an explanation for is this post:
http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120547#post120547
Especially the part where it sais "For the record, we have never spoken publically, privately, or indirectly. Please stop putting words in my mouth." and how it fits with how mDyio said "There was some indirect talk about the interaction though a messenger" in thread here. Is someone impersonating you?

 

[Chrissy]

Some points to clarify on the esteemed BlobLord:

• The crash was not, according to Greg, focused on TConstruct. It was based on anything that altered his recipe changes. His point of view was, there are configs for his changes. Therefore, with this code, if another mod changes his changes, crash.
• Greg removed this crash, once mDiyo posted on his IC2 thread.
• Greg's changes influence the conceptual planning of all mods. All mods would incorporate planning on how fast, and what is required, to climb their own tech tree or mod specific interaction. This is not limited to a wood nerf. Stone and wood tools durability is now halved.
• Greg deemed that a crash was *required*, coded it himself, and placed the blame/requirement on another modder.
• Greg has claimed that all these changes are config based. I have heard that this also touches on a 111 bronze return, but I have not seen this yet.

These are points I have read, experienced, and/or discussed.


Nerfs and play style aside, I think the key point is resides with Greg's decision that a crash was an option. My specific concern is a mod author, through their mod, has decided to infringe on the gaming experience of the players by crashing the game. By choice.

• It's funny, because that's what GT does, To ic2, Vanilla minecraft...
• Yea that seems like a reasonable thing to do, Although putting it in in the first place wasn't
• Not all mod makers are on the same page, That's why so many balance issues come up, greg doesn't help this
• Yep, He broke a window and blamed the person who put the window there
• I've seen it, I'm back on the recommended release of ultimate

One of the key points yea, but that is by no means the only point on that gentleman's modding-license[DOUBLEPOST=1374153137][/DOUBLEPOST]

Essentially what Greg is saying is all mods should accept his nerfs and/or work with his configs or he will make that mod incompatible with GT. I would love to see all the modders purposely undo the nerfs he does to their mods so he makes them all incompatible to his mod, see how many of his 'fan base' quit GT.

Eventually he's going to cross the line and have to change

 

[DoctorOr]

Some points to clarify on the esteemed BlobLord:

• The crash was not, according to Greg, focused on TConstruct. It was based on anything that altered his recipe changes. His point of view was, there are configs for his changes. Therefore, with this code, if another mod changes his changes, crash.

And if Sengir held that opinion, what with his config for bronze and all, GT would have been killed in the womb.
Speaking of which, other than as described below, there is no config option to disable the bronze nerf. In 3.09, the version after what appears in v8 of 152wgt, the config option was changed to vary between 3+1=1 and 3+1=2.
Also, Greg is both tardy and broken in his config options. The wood plank nerf config at one time didn't work. When these are eventually fixed, it's never admitted too, and never appears in any change log.

Greg has claimed that all these changes are config based. I have heard that this also touches on a 111 bronze return, but I have not seen this yet.

That's "too easy mode", a direct result of Immibis continually asking why there was no config option for bronze and tin buckets, since those are only "exploits" in Gregs mind. It does three things: 3 copper + 1 tin = 111 bronze., 3 tin = 111 buckets, and a 1 dirt = 1 uumatter recipe. The mode doesn't even actually turn off the variety of nerfs.
It's an intentionally poisoned pill, but one that Greg and others have taken to claiming is the config option applicable to those nerfs.

Honestly, the best resolution to this issue would have been for Tinker's Construct to keep it's change in place indefinitely. Going forward, GT has no place in any modpack not specifically designed around GT. And not even then, really, as much as Greg and others claim he "doesn't care", he literally drips with care. It flows off him in waves.

 

[egor66]

Some points to clarify on the esteemed BlobLord:
These are points I have read, experienced, and/or discussed.


Nerfs and play style aside, I think the key point is resides with Greg's decision that a crash was an option. My specific concern is a mod author, through their mod, has decided to infringe on the gaming experience of the players by crashing the game. By choice.

One thing I have taken from reading the ic2 GT section is that greg can & will use what ever mean he deems necessary to solve any issues he has with moder or any one really, the fact that at any time there is another disagreement with an author this very same event could again happen, or have you received any formal guarantee this will never happen again ?, I am not trying to stir anything up just asking a question.

 

[mDiyo]

Another thing I'd like to hear an explanation for is this post:
http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120547#post120547
Especially the part where it sais "For the record, we have never spoken publically, privately, or indirectly. Please stop putting words in my mouth." and how it fits with how mDyio said "There was some indirect talk about the interaction though a messenger" in thread here. Is someone impersonating you?

No, that was me. Hindsight is 20/20; the interaction here was more or less him blaming me for "bugs" that were cross-mod interactions, but I did respond to one message through this person. At the time I was furious at GregTech ruining the game for everyone that wanted to play with the mods together because I wanted to do things different from how he did them.

 

[egor66]

Another thing I'd like to hear an explanation for is this post:
http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120547#post120547
Especially the part where it sais "For the record, we have never spoken publically, privately, or indirectly. Please stop putting words in my mouth." and how it fits with how mDyio said "There was some indirect talk about the interaction though a messenger" in thread here. Is someone impersonating you?

dude now your just trying to cloud the issues that was the olive branch mdiyo offered to try solve the issue, plz man you scraping the barrel now to justify actions.

 

[Hoho]

mDiyo, thanks for clearing that up.

When you added the un-nerf to wood did you ever thought about adding a config option for turning it on/off
Had you done so I'm almost certain greg wouldn't have anywhere near the basis for argument as he does at the moment.

 

[Chrissy]

*Snip*

First off i hold a degree of respect for you on that c:

secondly yea, It's my the same argument i've been making for, For, uh, A few weeks or so

He goes and makes changed to IC2 without asking, IC2 being a change to vanilla,

And then he starts tampering with vanilla, And the mod that his own is built on

And other peoples' mods who aren't even INVOLVED,

And then i hear about big old incidents that make me think a bit less of him every time


Also can somone help me with this?
I really cant ask IC2 personell for help. Because that would require making an account, And upon attempting to do so i am greeted with this:

Spoiler

 

[Bigglesworth]

With zero drama:
If the GT version(s) in question are not part of any FTB pack, then there is no issue with FTB.
If it is part of a (publicly available) FTB pack, slowpoke has a legal obligation to remove the offending version. Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA), 18 U.S.C. 1030

 

[Wyld]

mDiyo, thanks for clearing that up.

When you added the un-nerf to wood did you ever thought about adding a config option for turning it on/off
Had you done so I'm almost certain greg wouldn't have anywhere near the basis for argument as he does at the moment.

Totally hypothetical here, but even if it was config based, I am unsure if that would have actually altered anything.

 

[RedBoss]

mDiyo, thanks for clearing that up.

When you added the un-nerf to wood did you ever thought about adding a config option for turning it on/off
Had you done so I'm almost certain greg wouldn't have anywhere near the basis for argument as he does at the moment.

At what point does any of that require him to sabotage the game?

 

[Hoho]

With zero drama:
If the GT version(s) in question are not part of any FTB pack, then there is no issue with FTB.
If it is part of a (publicly available) FTB pack, slowpoke has a legal obligation to remove it.

According to Wyld work on wgt pack has resumed: http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120852&highlight=#post120852[DOUBLEPOST=1374154287][/DOUBLEPOST]

Totally hypothetical here, but even if it was config based, I am unsure if that would have actually altered anything.

It would have greatly diminished the validity for greg to make a fuss about it, that's all.

At what point does any of that require him to sabotage the game?

Could you clarify what you mean here?

 

[RedBoss]

Greg inserted code that crashed the game. Period. You know full well what I'm talking about.

 

[egor66]

According to Wyld work on wgt pack has resumed: http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&postID=120852&highlight=#post120852[DOUBLEPOST=1374154287][/DOUBLEPOST]It would have greatly diminished the validity for greg to make a fuss about it, that's all.
Could you clarify what you mean here?

At this point I beleave you are just trolling, all be it in a polite fashion but inflammatory none the less.

 

[Hoho]

Greg inserted code that crashed the game. Period. You know full well what I'm talking about.

my whole point was that if mdyio had added a configuration for wood nerf far less people would have sided with greg.

 

[DoctorOr]

It would have greatly diminished the validity for greg to make a fuss about it, that's all.

Can't get below zero validity.

 

[Chrissy]

Could you clarify what you mean here?

He introduced a bug that crashed the game if TC and GT were installed simultaneously
And put a pumpkin on the TC producer's head permanently

 

[Ragnoff]

Hoho, People I trust FAR more than Greg (as he has LIED about what he has done claiming code Greg entered was SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT) say that the code to crash a game is still there, just a trigger removed. Greg has CONGRATULATED himself on hurting end users to get the changes he wanted.

As a responsible father of a child with Aspergers and one who host a server for several others, why should I EVER allow them access to a modder who is proud of his malware?

 

[Hoho]

At this point I beleave you are just trolling, all be it in a polite fashion but inflammatory none the less.

wait, what? Linking to a post from FTB pack maker is trolling? Or was it explaining how mdyio could have come out even better from the drama?