Equivalent Exchange has to go.

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RavynousHunter

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Jul 29, 2019
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Honestly, being able to trade garbage for useful shit was one of the reasons I loved EE2. I didn't have to waste 15 bloody hours mining obsidian to make a creeper-proof shelter, or just a badass room that's damn near indestructible, outside of a nuclear bomb/meltdown. I barely touched the collectors outside random experiments, like an infinite lava machine in 1.2.5 Technic that wasn't just pittly little lava cells, but actually -filled- lava tanks.

Yeah, it made things easier, but it also made them more fun, for me at least. Less time spent worrying about building supplies makes me a happy Hunter, because it means more time doing what I really love: making machines and mechanized contraptions that may, or may not, be exploitative, insane, counter-intuitive, downright stupid, or some combination thereof.

In short, don't go spoiling the experience for folks like me just because a mod gets your britches all bunched up 'round your nethers. Don't like it, don't use it, shit's simple as that.
 

AliveGhost

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Jul 29, 2019
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Equivalent exchange could be compared to villager trading. You could argue "oh, you can get emeralds for wheat. How unbalanced is that?" It's just another part of the game, why not say villagers have to go too? You can get valuable materials from something like paper!

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Shybella

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Jul 29, 2019
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I own Mcraftworlds.net

EE2 Is a touchy subject of a mod. Yes, as AliveGhost stated Is very valid. However, Collectors and major dupe issues with EE2 has brought many problems in the real working multiplayer environment.

Collectors 2 huge problems - Ruins Free Market Economies. Causes major tick issues, very lagging item when you have over 5000 active at one time.. ( MMHM COMPACT SOLAR ARRAYS HINT HINT *cough*)

Transmutation Tablets are wonderful, my favorite part of EE. However, major dupe exploits have ruined it for multiplayer experience.

Condensers, Is my most favored item in EE2. Take that old cobblestone and toss it to make Diamonds. One of the least flawed items in EE2.

RM tools and mostly the rest of EE2 wasn't meant to EVEN BE USED IN THE MULTIPLAYER ENVIRONMENT. None of these mods were designed to be used multiplayer. We're lucky that we see mod developers actually somewhat caring to add support for multiplayer use.

Although, this is only my advice. You can do whatever the hell you want to do.
 

Ako_the_Builder

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Jul 29, 2019
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Equivalent exchange could be compared to villager trading. You could argue "oh, you can get emeralds for wheat. How unbalanced is that?" It's just another part of the game, why not say villagers have to go too? You can get valuable materials from something like paper!

you're neglecting to factor in time, the one thing that makes ee3 seem possibly more overpowered than it is is that everything is instantaneous.
 
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wolfsilver00

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Jul 29, 2019
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Mmm, first of all:

Diamonds. Yeah, true, you CAN get diamonds from cobble.. but it takes some time and energy usage.. EE3 is not free. It just makes things easy, of course, you could limit yourself. Thats what I do. For example, i do not use industrial diamonds for vanilla (or other than IC2) stuff, i don't care if they're the same in the forge ore dictionary, i just don't use it. And, if we are talking about diamonds.. EE3 isn't the most OP situation.. have you ever tried mystcraft? In my current world, i got a dense ores page.. And im gratefull that i have EE3, because i can turn diamonds into iron (Yes.. Diamonds into gold, then iron..). Mystcraft dense ores is the most OP thing i've seen. 15 mins with a diamond drill is worth from 1 to 2 stacks of diamonds. I just don't even take them anymore, i use mystcraft dense ores to get coal and iron, sometimes redstone but because of my fortune enchantment, i can mine for those in the overworld pretty easy.

The thing about EE3 op'ness is right, maybe you can get a diamond pick in the first 20 min of gameplay if you play your cards well and find iron.. Yeah, im not going to discuss that.. But that is your decision to make.

Second: EE3 is so fucking usefull. I use it for this, the most of the time:
Turn cobble into dirt. I tend to construct with cobble (in a filler) and i like alive roofs.. So i turn the roof into dirt. Easy. No breaking blocks.. etc..
Turn Wool into its colored counterparts.. I don't like to mix things to make colors.. I limit myself and i do not change to the basic colors like white, black and red / yellow / blue, because they have fair obtainable dyes without too much crafting shit.. Another thing i find cool but i prefer not to do (i did it, but only once, because i didn't found a desert biome.. it was like 700 blocks away :S) is to change dyes into green dye to make waterproof. i usually use waterproof only in start game, then i just go to liquiducts.. but its cool.. and somepeople may find it awesome (more if using Extrabiomes.. which, yeah, adds a lot of biomes, but while doing that, it's less posible for a desert biome to spawn)

Third:
Variety.. Yeah, as stupid as it may seem.. I HATE basic constructs.. I like to use different kinds of rocks and wood (achievable only if you get the saplings.. and EE3 helps with that) in my cosmetic constructs.. Of course, you could transmute and get Jungle, yeah, may be a little op, because the wood of a jungle tree is 4 to 5 times more.. Again, i limit myself, and you could do so too. And for the diamonds part of wood.. yeah, you can get diamonds from wood.. so what? You know how much wood it takes to make a diamond? A LOT. you're better finding them in the caves.

I think it would be cool to have a little.. mm.. unequivalent exchange.. for example, needing more gold to get a diamond, and getting less gold from a diamond.. like if some of its "value" is lost in the transmutation.. I would really love that..
For the minium stone being cheap, yeah, i think it is, so i made it less durable, go to your configs folder and you will find a durability conf for the minium and pilosoph stone, just tweak it according to your plans. Mine can endure just one transmutation. Just put 1 in the durability. Another cool change is the durability use of items or blocks, tweak it and you can easily config whats easier to trade. I tweaked it so i could not get more than 1 block transmut and more than 2 item transmut per stone.

Its just a matter of what you like or not to do. I decide not to use some of it functions because i feel they're not fun at all.. And i decide that some of its functions are really usefull and not balance breaker.

Again, if you want diamonds go to a mystcraft dense ores age.. you need to get the page.. but you can just use an automatic farm to get wheat and sell it to villagers.. then, exchange emeralds only on the myst vilaggers and you're done, in no time you will have dense ores.. (which is worth 45 emeralds, i found it twice, and i buy it and drop it, so i could get to the next page...) EVERY SYSTEM IS OP IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT.

I just try to use the most difficult option for everything, i just go for easier ways when i feel there is no fun in the hard way (i HATE long crafting recipes, or checking nei all the time, so, for example, dyes..), even more if its just a cosmetic change like transmuting an oak sapling into birch to get white wood.
Im just waiting for a config file to modify my transmuting recipes ( by now, i limit them myself.. for example, trading wood for obsidian, for me, it takes 9 wood, i just do the mats and drop the wood into a void pipe. Simple, and i feel its still, fair. 9 wood for 1 obsidian? Ill take it, my cart with diamond wood cuttter saws will take care of the rest.)
 

b0h

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Jul 29, 2019
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What backup program do you use?
I simply clone the instance i want in Multimc, then i make modifications in the clone. If the instance is still stable, i integrate the change i made in the main instance, then i delete the testing instance.
Rinse and repeat until you have all the mods you want.
 

Virgoddess

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Jul 29, 2019
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I never have (and never will, likely) understand a person demanding a mod be taken out of a pack because it *could* be used in a way that *might* make things easier. Never mind that it doesn't have to be used this way, and that most won't ever do so, and that there are plenty of other valid ways in which people use the mod.

Baffles.
 

russjr08

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Jul 29, 2019
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I never have (and never will, likely) understand a person demanding a mod be taken out of a pack because it *could* be used in a way that *might* make things easier. Never mind that it doesn't have to be used this way, and that most won't ever do so, and that there are plenty of other valid ways in which people use the mod.

Baffles.
Right. OP / cheating is very relative in a sandbox game. I don't personally consider EE3 cheating. Sure there are a few things that could be changed, but it only inspires people to do more, and I think the ultimate goal in Minecraft is to just have fun. Stop worrying about what's cheating and what's OP.
 
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Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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I remember back in the days of 1.2 when in EE2 coal's EMC value was twice as high as charcoal's, so you just convert coal into charcoal and have twice the ammount at 100% disccount in the closest condenser around the corner.

They complain because Minecraft is not always a singleplayer game.

I was more or less replyig to the post above me
 
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AliveGhost

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Jul 29, 2019
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Villager trading is also instantaneous. Much like many things, why not have a go at crafting for being instantaneous

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2
 
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Dravarden

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For people that say "villagers close trades after 7-8 trades so you can't exploit it"

WRONG.

the last trade of a villager is infinite, for example, if you trade with a librarian and get lucky to have the paper trade last, you will be able to trade as much paper as you want with him.

panda explains it in one of his videos of panda's survival, I don't have the link ATM.

oh, almost forgot, with infinite emeralds you can buy diamond armor/tools and then uncraft them.
 
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NJM1564

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I remember back in the days of 1.2 when in EE2 coal's EMC value was twice as high as charcoal's, so you just convert coal into charcoal and have twice the ammount at 100% disccount in the closest condenser around the corner.


Ahem why are you even talking about EE2 yes it was over powered the mod's author even agrees that it was so. He he scraped because it was so over powered. And is making EE3 with the intent that it be somewhat balanced.

Yes you can make diamonds out of more common blocks. But the exchange rate is roughly based on how rare they are. For example: An amount of block X found in in an amount of time is equal to an amount of block B that would be found in the same about of time.
With EE3 I'd expect that collectors will probably have a limit on what they can make based on what tier they are and only top tier ones will be useful in making diamonds. This should brink it in line with other FTB mods. With the idea being that once you get the infrastructure set up you'll never want again. I'd also not be surprised if he added systems to change EU and/or MJ into EMC. Making part of his mod function like a more diverse form of the Matter fabricator.
 
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Ako_the_Builder

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Jul 29, 2019
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Villager trading is also instantaneous. Much like many things, why not have a go at crafting for being instantaneous

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

While an individual trade with a villager is instantaneous, mass trading of a scale comparable to the mass crafting potential of a minium stone really isn't, but you already knew that.

ic2 64 coal to diamond doesn't seem overpowered because it has processing cost; time, placed blocks, power and some cheap extra items. It still is, on a base level, the same as minium stone transmuting though. Minium stone seems cheap, to me, because it is instantaneous and happens in your inventory.
 
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PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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As I already said, you should not only check what is the cost to get more expensive items, but also check how you can get cheap ones from expensive. Diamonds have... a bit less uses than Iron. I think, my first HP boiler, set of engines and a big part of my infrastructure were made from Iron converted from diamonds
 

Zerren

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Jul 29, 2019
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Currently, it's a lazy man's mod, and there is zero arguing with that. It offers nothing but ways of converting things to other things with minimal effort, turning non-renewable resources into renewable ones and ways of acquiring items via a few crafts with a red rock.
Of course that can change, but it's in FTB right NOW isn't it? Mods are judged by not what they WILL become, but from what they are CURRENTLY, since, while we can disable them on our own, the multitude of servers will not.

I agree with you.
Also, suggesting balance around these forums will only get you yelled at by people with no knowledge or sense of balance, or ones that try to validate their lazyness by explaining how they only have 15 minutes to play a day
 

wolfsilver00

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Jul 29, 2019
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While an individual trade with a villager is instantaneous, mass trading of a scale comparable to the mass crafting potential of a minium stone really isn't, but you already knew that.

ic2 64 coal to diamond doesn't seem overpowered because it has processing cost; time, placed blocks, power and some cheap extra items. It still is, on a base level, the same as minium stone transmuting though. Minium stone seems cheap, to me, because it is instantaneous and happens in your inventory.


So what if it's in the inventory? At least you have to click, i could make an automation system with a pipe, a rs engine (or autharchic gate) a fabricator and a chest. And let me tell you something, that could be even faster.

64 coal for a diamond, at least to me, seems a LIL op, if i could, ill change it for 128 coal, and as i said, i would change the costs of the transmutation, as i cant do that, i limit myself using industrial diamonds only for ic2, and, for me, using the minium stone is a one way only thing, because it breaks in the first use.

I dont understand why ppl keep arguing about it, EE3 has a lot of usefull trades, some that i don't even think about using and some that are op, its you who decide how to play, after all, not everybody finds fun to search for diamonds like crazy, or look for dyes and different colored wood (my case)
 
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Ako_the_Builder

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So what if it's in the inventory? At least you have to click, i could make an automation system with a pipe, a rs engine (or autharchic gate) a fabricator and a chest. And let me tell you something, that could be even faster.

64 coal for a diamond, at least to me, seems a LIL op, if i could, ill change it for 128 coal, and as i said, i would change the costs of the transmutation, as i cant do that, i limit myself using industrial diamonds only for ic2, and, for me, using the minium stone is a one way only thing, because it breaks in the first use.

I dont understand why ppl keep arguing about it, EE3 has a lot of usefull trades, some that i don't even think about using and some that are op, its you who decide how to play, after all, not everybody finds fun to search for diamonds like crazy, or look for dyes and different colored wood (my case)

Heh, first up good use of "let me tell you something" :)

Couple of other points (all in my opinion of course): automating things is fine, it's one of the main tenets of technical modded minecraft. I think my first post in this thread includes what I specifically find overpowered (ender pearls not from ender men and blaze rods without nether (which requires interaction with thaumcraft)), some other stuff I just find cheap (obsidian from wood) and some stuff I really like for their usefulness without having massive impact on other things (changing flowers/dyes/wool colour).

As to your last point, people keep arguing about it because it is a mod discussion forum, it is what this place is for ;)

edit: I don't agree with the op, ee3 should stay, however I'd personally like to at least have config options as to what it is capable of.