EE3 is already broken!

[Hoff]

The only issue I ever has with EE2 was the something for nothing mechanic (solar collectors I think) That, however was what the FTB maps were based on.

So do you not like solar panels? Wind mills? Water mills? Pahi has already stated there will definitely be a form of passive generation. The true problem most people had was the universality of it. Not to mention the only reason the cost didn't "balance" them in most people's eyes was the ease of gathering the expensive materials.

 

[NicoAD]

-_- You guys think ee2 is uneven but solar panels are way op for my liking.
Collecter M1 = Solarpanel LV
Collecter M2 = Solarpanel MV
Collecter M3 = Solarpanel HV
But that just that addon
Advance solars are way op.


If EMC = EU
This well look
Nano= Dark Matter Armor
Jetback=Swiftwolf(There pretty equal but swiftwolf haves no fall damaged but swiftwolf uses emc instead eu)
Kleinstars=Lappacks=Pretty Well Equal
Redmatter furnace= All of the machines(Pretty Equal I say)
Redmatter Katar= NanoSaber and Chainsaw
Redmatter Mourning Star=Chainsaw and Drill
Nova Cactylusm =/////// Nuke
Energy Condenser/////////////////= Mass Fab (yeah i know i agree with you)
Alchemical Chest= Ironchest
Harvest Band= Sickle from redpower
Ring of Ignition=Mining Laser

-------------------------------------------
Ring Of Arcana
Archangel Smite
Void Ring = Quantum Armor + Gravisuit and Ultimate Solar Helm.(These even out the match if were to fight)
Redmatter Armor
Klein Star

---------------
If Ic2 Can take power out of the "Sun".
How come magic can't?
Plus Magic isn't suppose to go with science.
It's worst if you mix alchemy with it.
---------------
And yes EE3 should be balance out with other mods.
But who said EE2 Wasn't?

 

[huldu]

I had nothing against EE2 but then again I didn't exploit it or used those solar collectors, they felt so cheap. However I loved the condenser. Sure, these days you can do just fine without it, but it was a nifty tool to convert "useless" junk into something you could actually use. I use the macerator/pulverizer constantly to make sand so I don't need to "ruin" the landscape, like some above poster. Most of the "exploits" you guys mentioned I honestly didn't even know about in 1.4.x. Then again, infinite bonemeal... yay? Sure you could set up some fun farms using that, but nothing you couldn't already do by using mob spawners. It would only be "op" if you could actually use it in some sort of condenser, which doesn't exist in EE3... yet, at least.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Well these recipies aren't really necessary in the first place. Making bones out of bonemeal? Making blaze-rods out of blazepowder? Why would you want to do that.

For blaze rods, see my earlier post. It does have fair early-game use, but it becomes quickly overshadowed by other, more efficient forms of power generation like geothermal generators and magmatic engines. Though, it could still be useful as a backup system, to ensure that you never completely run out of power.

Then again, I'm greedy, lazy, and somewhat sentimental. My magmatic engines may be able to produce 4x more power than my old Stirlings, but the latter still have use as jump-starters for other systems.

 

[Jay Cee]

So do you not like solar panels? Wind mills? Water mills? Pahi has already stated there will definitely be a form of passive generation. The true problem most people had was the universality of it. Not to mention the only reason the cost didn't "balance" them in most people's eyes was the ease of gathering the expensive materials.

I think he meant energy collectors.

Why is there even an argument about an alpha pre-release?

 

[Hoff]

I think he meant energy collectors.

Why is there even an argument about an alpha pre-release?

The idea of free energy is the same.

 

[BigDaveNz]

Dynamic EMC is likely to be released in pre3/pre4 of EE3. Pahimar already knows about exploits like these and is spending hours on his dynamic EMC system to fix that. People complained that ee3 wasnt in the pack even though hardly any functionality of the mod is added. now people are complaining that it's OP before its even been finished *facepalm*. If you dont like the fact that you can make infinite bonemeal/blaze rods. then just dont exploit it. It's pretty simple really. Also the minium stone will eventually be alot harder to make in the first place...

 

[cardinalstar16]

Ok if you find an exploit if you don't like DON'T USE IT. Why are you complaining about something when you could just not use it ,and what do you care if other people use it the wrong way it was intended this really makes me mad I have never complained this much about anything it's crazy why you can't just not use it instead you use and then start a Topic that your angry about it ,that sounds absurd.

 

[Kyoto]

-_- You guys think ee2 is uneven but solar panels are way op for my liking.
Collecter M1 = Solarpanel LV
Collecter M2 = Solarpanel MV
Collecter M3 = Solarpanel HV
But that just that addon
Advance solars are way op.

Redmatter Katar= NanoSaber and Chainsaw

I completely agree about the Advanced Solar panels, Very op
the nano saber comparison ehhh its what 40,000 EU (not that bad). when I use it (may not be the best) it runs out quickly for me and then when its gone its useless cause I'm whacking Withers with a wooden sword

And yes EE3 should be balance out with other mods.
But who said EE2 Wasn't?

In a single player version i say it is completely balanced. But when you on the topic of multiplayer its a whole different story, all, or rather most whitelisted/open servers severely nerf/ban items from EE that make EE, what it is. EE2 in my opinion is an "in-game" NEI. But i do agree with you about how EE is a very delicate idea and tbh EE3 is looking pretty good even in Alpha \o\

p.s. didn't mean to break up your message just wanted it to be a small post

 

[Antivyris]

The idea of free energy is the same.

I would like to disagree here. Free energy is not the same as free items. I could have 1200 advanced solar panels (or lv-arrays, your choice) generating a whopping 9600 EU/t, and yeah, that's crazy for free power. However, I can't Spend all 9600eu/t in seconds, nor can I spend it on whatever I want. It's quite visible in GT with the changes to the Mass-fab to MatterFabricator, and rarely do I find people arguing against that specific recipe, but we'll just leave the rest of GT out of this convo. In fact, if he released a matter-fab only mod, I'd imagine it would get lots of use.

Where EE2 broke boundries was the energy condenser and Klein star, not the energy collector. Let's be honest, you turned gunpowder into glowstone? Or Aeturnalus fuel? Good for you! Now what to do with it? All you could really do was make more Klein stars or more coal. We already do the same with Lava from the nether, or a forestry/railcraft biomass farm. I mean, you 'could' follow the really long process in IC2 to make a diamond, but that takes a good bit of time. Transmutation tablet? Really, it's no worse than UU-matter. It's pretty close, those two, since it was pretty much mostly vanilla blocks. Yeah, you can make some wierd non-vanilla blocks, or fast pistons, but it's use was still limited.

Throw in the condenser, though, all bets were off. I remember seeing one server setup in particular, Four quarries, specifically setup where all cobble went into a box where ACT's pull out furnaces, all gravel gets macerated into Coal, Dirt to a recycler bank churning scrap to a box for scrap boxes with a deployer/obsidian pipe combo, and then of course at the end pretty much the weakest ore-processing I've seen, I think it was just a macerator/induction furnace just piped one into the other...and all of it went right into condensers. It was designed to make the quarry keep up with the condenser. And what did he make? Diamond blocks, for no real use. Same person soon after discovered the macerated blaze-rod trick, and after just had a constant emc setup with that alone.

I think the most concerning thing that EE2 did that people did not like that they probably might be overlooking is what it did to the game. A lot of people ended up looking at everything in matters of EMC. Heck, this is greatly evident on the Tekkit Wiki, as half of the recipes talk about which version is cheaper in EMC, and if it's even worth it to craft. Tech mods are about solving problems with planning and setup, EMC generators and condensers allowed you to skip straight over such problems in the first place. Sorting systems were usually an afterthought to deal with what you couldn't turn into EMC.

Now, of course, not everyone thought like that, but I think we all either remember, or read the horror stories of EMC hoarders on servers basically ruining things for everyone else. I think of EE2 like the Reverse-GregTech of 1.2.5.

And as a little tl:dr, I can sum it up easier, especially for the Free EU idea. In IC2, you don't look at everything in terms of EU, you still consider the resources and upkeep for the items. In EE2, you just look at everything as EMC.

 

[NicoAD]

I would like to disagree here. Free energy is not the same as free items.

You don't understand the concept of equivalent exchange.
Items are energy for Equivalent Exchange.
You'll understand more if you watched FMA with me.

The rule of Equivalent Exchange.
In order to obtain or create something, something of equal value must be lost or destroyed."
And light is counted as a "block".

Equivalent Exchange wasn't suppose to work with other mods.

​

 

[Mikey_R]

Light might be considered a block, but it doesn't get lost or destroyed. So it goes against that rule.

 

[Hoff]

Light might be considered a block, but it doesn't get lost or destroyed. So it goes against that rule.

It getting changed is what is considered destroyed or lost.

 

[NTaylor]

Just thinking about what other exploits may exist with EE3 and other mods and as most people have said aside from one they would all pretty much be useless in the long run seen as bonemeal is only good for farming but has to be pretty much applied manually unless I am missing something from a mod that does it for you and blaze rods only really good in a generator.

However one that would probably remain quite useful late game and is properly exploitable would be put Wood in a sawmill to get 6 wood planks then use the minium/philo stone to turn that back into wood thus infinite wood. Then use that to make infinite obsidian which can then either be turned into lava or iron. That could do with balancing in some way though I dont know how pahi would manage that because it is either leave it unbalanced or make wood blocks cost 6 planks with a philo stone.

 

[Hoff]

@^

And why is that an exploit? You're using up power to get more out of something; both from the sawmill and the stones. You're trading off power to make more potentially infinite out of something. How is it any different from a forestry tree farm that's running indefinitely due to a never-touch-me-again set-up? In fact I'd probably prefer that one.

 

[Dex Luther]

*sighs* Another one of these "user creates a machine to abuse the power of a mod, then complains about it being overpowered instead of just not abusing the mod in the first place" threads.

 

[Whovian]

@^

And why is that an exploit? You're using up power to get more out of something; both from the sawmill and the stones. You're trading off power to make more potentially infinite out of something. How is it any different from a forestry tree farm that's running indefinitely due to a never-touch-me-again set-up? In fact I'd probably prefer that one.

Sort of, but this is a way of transforming energy into potentially unlimited items. Electrical Engines w/ Solar Panels (especially in DW20) are a bit OP, in that you get free MJ, so one could make a device to just get free wood. There's the Forestry setup you mentioned, but I'm trying to set one up in a creative world, and they are EXPENSIVE (and I still need to figure out a way to supply that Peat Bog with all the water buckets it needs to renew Bog Earth.) And, in my opinion, energy of any sort wasn't intended to get turned into matter. We do have UUM, but that's terribly inefficient.

 

[Hoff]

Sort of, but this is a way of transforming energy into potentially unlimited items. Electrical Engines w/ Solar Panels (especially in DW20) are a bit OP, in that you get free MJ, so one could make a device to just get free wood. There's the Forestry setup you mentioned, but I'm trying to set one up in a creative world, and they are EXPENSIVE (and I still need to figure out a way to supply that Peat Bog with all the water buckets it needs to renew Bog Earth.) And, in my opinion, energy of any sort wasn't intended to get turned into matter. We do have UUM, but that's terribly inefficient.

That's the entire basis of EE.

Hell that's a core component of all the industrial mods too in a more round-a-bout way. In the beginning what do you use energy for? Doubling ore output. Where does the second one come from? A machine you powered with energy that is essentially creating a duplicate of the item that wasn't there before. It comes down to how you personally feel about the mod and what it does. Does the magic allow you to take the energy from a piece of charcoal and instantly smelt 7 pieces of sand? Does for me.

 

[Whovian]

That's the entire basis of EE.

Fair enough.

Hell that's a core component of all the industrial mods too in a more round-a-bout way. In the beginning what do you use energy for? Doubling ore output. Where does the second one come from? A machine you powered with energy that is essentially creating a duplicate of the item that wasn't there before. It comes down to how you personally feel about the mod and what it does. Does the magic allow you to take the energy from a piece of charcoal and instantly smelt 7 pieces of sand? Does for me.

About the ore, it's better efficiency we're talking about. We're not talking about doubling ores, we're talking about doubling (or tripling in the case of Factorization) ore output, thus simply increasing the efficiency of ore processing instead of converting energy into matter. So the basis is more energy -> efficiency.

EE's interesting, since it speeds up smelting, but at a lower coal efficiency rate and it damages your Minium. Is it worth it? Depends on if your system's automated.

 

[Hoff]

Fair enough.



About the ore, it's better efficiency we're talking about. We're not talking about doubling ores, we're talking about doubling (or tripling in the case of Factorization) ore output, thus simply increasing the efficiency of ore processing instead of converting energy into matter. So the basis is more energy -> efficiency.

EE's interesting, since it speeds up smelting, but at a lower coal efficiency rate and it damages your Minium. Is it worth it? Depends on if your system's automated.

What says the magic isn't making it more efficient? We are talking about scientific magic here. Not to mention saying it is more efficient is simply a way of explaining why it creates something from nothing.