Draconic Armor is broken OP

[ax1m]

This is literally the most overpowered thing in 1.7 modded MC. It completely nullifies all kinds of incoming damage, even that which is coded to be armor-piercing. It makes the wearer absolutely unkillable by anything other than a bane of pigs.
It completely obliterates the balance of the Infinity pack, which is otherwise pretty good. I've seen people who had this armor within 24 hours of the server starting which is just utterly wrong on all levels.

I really hope this will be nerfed to oblivion in future updates, but I doubt it since the FTB team doesn't seem to give a shit about pack balance at all recently.

/rant

 

[Yusunoha]

to me Draconic Evolution is the Dartcraft from 1.7.10
the goal of the mod is to be completely overpowered, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but in a modpack it can cause very unbalanced problems.

Draconic Evolution right now is a very rough gem in my opinion, and it needs some exta loving and attention to really turn it into a good mod.

 

[Padfoote]

I really hope this will be nerfed to oblivion in future updates, but I doubt it since the FTB team doesn't seem to give a shit about pack balance at all recently.

This is a kitchen sink pack you're complaining about, where there are hundreds of mods interacting in often unexpected ways. It would take a single person months to balance a KS pack, which is not feasible.

Before making blanket inflammatory statements, please do some work on a KS pack yourself. You'll understand why it isn't possible.

 

[PhoenixSmith]

It is end game armor after all... I have been using damage to energy armor for end-game since forever (MPS, RA, Nano-Armor). So what exactly makes it so OP? Because it block armor-piercing damage? To me it is fine where it is. Draconic Evolution is not the most balanced mod, but you should not be able to get this armor in 24 hours, I don't think that is possible...

 

[ax1m]

It would take a single person months to balance a KS pack, which is not feasible.

I have done some work on packs myself, for a private server I used to play on. I know how hard it is. I know balancing everything against everything else is outright impossible. However, identifying the most OP of items and using a bit of Minetweaker magic on them can go a long way. In this case I would probably change the recipe to require awakened draconium blocks instead of ingots, and maybe throw a couple nether stars in there somewhere for good measure. That would at least make it so it can't be obtained within a day of starting a new world.
Another option would be to add a recipe for the bane of pigs, costing a nether star block, some awakened draconium and maybe some other stuff. That would keep it just about balanced with the current cost of draconic armor.

So what exactly makes it so OP? Because it block armor-piercing damage?

Basically, yes. Armor-piercing damage exists for a reason, it serves as a great equalizer for all the overpowered sets of armor that exist within modded minecraft. For example, in current versions a tinkers rapier with manyullyn blade and max amount of quartz will do about a heart of damage per hit to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, and the likes. That's good game design, because it allows for interesting PvP to exist even at high levels. Ignoring 1 heart of damage per hit may not seem like a big deal at first glance, but considering that is the only way of getting through some of these endgame armor sets at all, it's literally game-breaking.
And yes, it is entirely possible to get draconic armor within 24 hours. Probably a lot less even. It requires a bit of no-lifeing, but that's what many people do when they join a new server.

 

[Dkittrell]

I have done some work on packs myself, for a private server I used to play on. I know how hard it is. I know balancing everything against everything else is outright impossible. However, identifying the most OP of items and using a bit of Minetweaker magic on them can go a long way. In this case I would probably change the recipe to require awakened draconium blocks instead of ingots, and maybe throw a couple nether stars in there somewhere for good measure. That would at least make it so it can't be obtained within a day of starting a new world.
Another option would be to add a recipe for the bane of pigs, costing a nether star block, some awakened draconium and maybe some other stuff. That would keep it just about balanced with the current cost of draconic armor.


Basically, yes. Armor-piercing damage exists for a reason, it serves as a great equalizer for all the overpowered sets of armor that exist within modded minecraft. For example, in current versions a tinkers rapier with manyullyn blade and max amount of quartz will do about a heart of damage per hit to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, and the likes. That's good game design, because it allows for interesting PvP to exist even at high levels. Ignoring 1 heart of damage per hit may not seem like a big deal at first glance, but considering that is the only way of getting through some of these endgame armor sets at all, it's literally game-breaking.
And yes, it is entirely possible to get draconic armor within 24 hours. Probably a lot less even. It requires a bit of no-lifeing, but that's what many people do when they join a new server.

1. i dont beleive you can get this armor in a day but even if you are you're complaining how much people play how can a dev control this. On DW20 pack you kill one wither skelly and be invisible to the wither. With the a cleaver you can get tons of skulls very quick and within this day time frame you speak of i can have hundreds of stars.

2. Tinkers has it coded for the rapier to go thru armor, i dont know exactly how its coded but im sure the dev has to code something about each armor, if this is the case how can you blame DE for another mod mechanic not working?

 

[rouge_bare]

If you are arguing that rapiers are balanced, you only need to look at how many people use them for pvp. With enough sharpness you can 1 hit anyone wearing all but the highest tiers of armor, assuming no extra health,or potions on either side. At that point, pvp becomes, who can one hit who first?

I don't partically go much on pvp in modded minecraft, as it's generally a near-unbalancable mess. Either you have armor that makes you nigh-untouchable, or weapons that make most armor completely pointless (at least in a pure pvp-persepective). Pick your poision.

 

[epidemia78]

Ive noticed some striking similarities with items in Draconic Evolution to items in Thaumic Tinkerer. In design, function and even the names.

 

[Colensocon1]

This is literally the most overpowered thing in 1.7 modded MC. It completely nullifies all kinds of incoming damage, even that which is coded to be armor-piercing. It makes the wearer absolutely unkillable by anything other than a bane of pigs.
It completely obliterates the balance of the Infinity pack, which is otherwise pretty good. I've seen people who had this armor within 24 hours of the server starting which is just utterly wrong on all levels.

I really hope this will be nerfed to oblivion in future updates, but I doubt it since the FTB team doesn't seem to give a shit about pack balance at all recently.

/rant

Stop complaing the draconic armour is completely endgame so its hardly like DartCraft where you can join a server and make OP armour instantly draconic armour is meant to be OP because of its price...

 

[ax1m]

If you are arguing that rapiers are balanced, you only need to look at how many people use them for pvp. With enough sharpness you can 1 hit anyone wearing all but the highest tiers of armor, assuming no extra health,or potions on either side. At that point, pvp becomes, who can one hit who first?

I don't partically go much on pvp in modded minecraft, as it's generally a near-unbalancable mess. Either you have armor that makes you nigh-untouchable, or weapons that make most armor completely pointless (at least in a pure pvp-persepective). Pick your poision.

The rapiers have been majorly nerfed for 1.7, they only do like 10% armor-piercing damage now, which is completely fine imho. PvP in Infinity would actually be pretty good were it not for draconic armor. All the other endgame armor sets are basically on par with each other, as you said they all make you nigh-untouchable. Draconic goes out of its way to block damage that is specifically coded to be armor piercing, effectively making the wearer straight-up invincible. What that does is absolutely kill endgame diversity, because now you have a couple mods, all providing endgame armor sets for similar amounts of time and resource investments, most of which are very powerful but have weaknesses, while one might as well just give you access to creative mode (invincibility wise).

 

[Colensocon1]

I have done some work on packs myself, for a private server I used to play on. I know how hard it is. I know balancing everything against everything else is outright impossible. However, identifying the most OP of items and using a bit of Minetweaker magic on them can go a long way. In this case I would probably change the recipe to require awakened draconium blocks instead of ingots, and maybe throw a couple nether stars in there somewhere for good measure. That would at least make it so it can't be obtained within a day of starting a new world.
Another option would be to add a recipe for the bane of pigs, costing a nether star block, some awakened draconium and maybe some other stuff. That would keep it just about balanced with the current cost of draconic armor.


Basically, yes. Armor-piercing damage exists for a reason, it serves as a great equalizer for all the overpowered sets of armor that exist within modded minecraft. For example, in current versions a tinkers rapier with manyullyn blade and max amount of quartz will do about a heart of damage per hit to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, and the likes. That's good game design, because it allows for interesting PvP to exist even at high levels. Ignoring 1 heart of damage per hit may not seem like a big deal at first glance, but considering that is the only way of getting through some of these endgame armor sets at all, it's literally game-breaking.
And yes, it is entirely possible to get draconic armor within 24 hours. Probably a lot less even. It requires a bit of no-lifeing, but that's what many people do when they join a new server.

How on earth is a rapier an equaliser it basically makes armour pointless in PVP its not fair at all people work hard to make that end game armour to get it nullified by some OP Rapier.

 

[buggirlexpres]

The goal in development of kitchen sink packs, like Infinity or Monster, is to make as few config changes as possible. Minetweaker is generally straight out for balance changes, and it's only in Infinity to fix recipe conflicts.

 

[ax1m]

Stop complaing the draconic armour is completely endgame so its hardly like DartCraft where you can join a server and make OP armour instantly draconic armour is meant to be OP because of its price...

except it is (almost) infinitely better compared to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, while costing about the same resource and time investment, which absolutely kills all endgame diversity

How on earth is a rapier an equaliser it basically makes armour pointless in PVP its not fair at all people work hard to make that end game armour to get it nullified by some OP Rapier.

You're thinking about 1.6.4 rapiers. This is 1.7.10 we're talking about, they have since been nerfed significantly.

The goal in development of kitchen sink packs, like Infinity or Monster, is to make as few config changes as possible. Minetweaker is generally straight out for balance changes, and it's only in Infinity to fix recipe conflicts.

The problem is that you end up with a pack that has one viable set of endgame armor, everything else is a joke at best. I played Monster quite a lot and this was not the case there.
Kitchensink or not, I think rebalancing to encourage playstyle diversity shouldn't be dismissed just like that.

 

[jordsta95]

except it is (almost) infinitely better compared to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, while costing about the same resource and time investment, which absolutely kills all endgame diversity

Here's the thing though, as with any mod, it's only good if you know the mod. Personally I am still clueless about the mod, and I assume a lot of people are the same. A lot of people stick to what they know, like I would go for KAMI, even though I hate the new TC stuff, because I know what it does.
Or maybe Bound Armour, if I feel like it.
But I wouldn't have ever known about DA armour being OP until reading this post, as I don't know the mod. It's like the Springboards mod that is in the pack. I will mess with it eventually, the cheaper it is, the earlier I will give it a go.

You're thinking about 1.6.4 rapiers. This is 1.7.10 we're talking about, they have since been nerfed significantly.

Rapiers work exactly the same in both 1.6 and 1.7, unless I am missing something. Rapiers bypass all armour which extends itemArmor, but nothing that extends IArmor (or whatever it is called) So vanilla armour = bypass -> Manasteel armour = safe, just because of how they are registered.

The problem is that you end up with a pack that has one viable set of endgame armor, everything else is a joke at best. I played Monster quite a lot and this was not the case there.
Kitchensink or not, I think rebalancing to encourage playstyle diversity shouldn't be dismissed just like that.

I don't want to sound like an a*** here. But if you want to rebalance it, do it yourself.
Everyone has their own vision of "balance". To me balanced is being able to nullify all damage to the player, and 1 hit any mob (including boss mobs) but have to spend a massive amount of resources on anything to automate stuff. This is because I hate mobs, I like peaceful mode - don't judge, but a lot of servers I play on/host seem to like the idea of mobs being enabled, so you need to please both parties.
Whereas other people hate grinding resources, so they will make dirt-diamond sort of recipes, but add stuff like lycanites mobs, to make you die a lot.

And if all else fails, just don't use mod/disable it on your server. A server will always be balanced to how a server host sees fit, so if that means it deters players from joining because EnderIO has been made to require Enderium instead of Vibrant Alloy (because they they think EIO is OP) then that's their choice.
If you are a server host, you get to make the rules, if not all you can do is ask the server owner to disable it, and hope they see stuff the same way as you do.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Rapiers work exactly the same in both 1.6 and 1.7, unless I am missing something. Rapiers bypass all armour which extends itemArmor, but nothing that implements IArmor (or whatever it is called) So vanilla armour = bypass -> Manasteel armour = safe, just because of how they are registered.

FTFY

Also, reminds me that I may want to PR something to fix that to TiC, I think it is open-source...

 

[ThomazM]

 

[Dkittrell]

except it is (almost) infinitely better compared to bound armor, quantum suits, kami robes, while costing about the same resource and time investment, which absolutely kills all endgame diversity

how does it kill diversity? They're so many different tech trees you can go thru which makes packs like this so much fun. Most people wont go thru a tech tree for pvp as their main focus.All late game armor is the same in regards to damage resistance, not much stuff in PVE can harm you so its just based off what tree you want to go thru.

 

[PierceSG]

Go play BF, CoD, LOL, DOTA2 or something that actually promotes pvp Instead of whining about a mod that very purpose is to empower one to be overpowered.

 

[fredfredburger]

I would venture that being unkillable in PvP is a good thing and a fair objective. The goal in minecraft is not to kill everyone else, but to not be killed yourself. Why? because Minecraft is about building and ultimately PvP comes down to PvBase. The challenge is figuring out how can you protect yourself and how can you protect your creations.

 

[Orma]

Never ever seen the appeal of PVP in minecraft. First of all its a balance nightmare, who got the best enchants/weapons/armor or most pots and best connection to the server etc.

And if you add mods into the mix you are asking for a massive headache. 99% of the mods are not written for pvp.
So any kind of balance for a PVP environment goes straight out the window.

This is and has always been a player versus the world game. Not a PVP game.

And if you think something is OP, disable it. If the server owners wont, find a new server.