Dartcraft: One of the most overpowered mods of our time

[Succubism]

This entire discussion has given me an idea for a new modpack that'll make you all happy.
There are no mods installed but it installs a little person in your computer who comes out and kicks you in the shins, generally makes life unnecessarily pleasant and all together not fun.
It also loads a blank and uninteresting, several thousand page word document in which you have to press the down button repeatedly to view the message at the bottom which is the only way to get rid of the little guy.
And by get rid, I mean replace him with several more of them.

Pressing and holding "down" is OP. We'll get rid of that.
And the Scroll bar.
And the Scroll wheel.
We're ironing out the keyboard shortcuts.

By the way the message is "Well you did splendidly, but was it worth it?"

 

[SonOfABirch]

This entire discussion has given me an idea for a new modpack that'll make you all happy.
There are no mods installed but it installs a little person in your computer who comes out and kicks you in the shins, generally makes life unnecessarily pleasant and all together not fun.
It also loads a blank and uninteresting, several thousand page word document in which you have to press the down button repeatedly to view the message at the bottom which is the only way to get rid of the little guy.
And by get rid, I mean replace him with several more of them.

Pressing and holding "down" is OP. We'll get rid of that.
And the Scroll bar.
And the Scroll wheel.
We're ironing out the keyboard shortcuts.

By the way the message is "Well you did splendidly, but was it worth it?"

Unhinged 2.0?

 

[Succubism]

Unhinged 2.0?

No no, in that version GT himself comes out and kicks you in the nads.

EDIT: Oh and the message is "Well awesome, but someone did it better than you and won't fail to wipe your nose in it."

 

[KingTriaxx]

Don't forget to disable page down and ctrl+end. Those are also totally OP.

 

[Succubism]

Don't forget to disable page down and ctrl+end. Those are also totally OP.

Noted for a future update.
We're skipping current updates to meet the next MidgOS.
THERE'S SO MANY OF THEM I DON'T EVEN

 

[Hydra]

This entire discussion has given me an idea for a new modpack that'll make you all happy.

Funny but still an appeal to ridicule fallacy.

 

[Succubism]

Funny

I thought so. c:

Eh, I got no problem with dartcraft. The thing is I don't see why people call things OP or try to change things.
I mean there was a post about that guy who made a full steel tank with stuff in a spoil bag.
Note the use of "I made" instead of "I could have made".

Self restraint is important. I don't see why this is a hard concept to grasp. It's all well and good complaining about something being OP when really it comes down to your preferences and how you like to play the game. This shouldn't be a reason to endeavor to change things for everyone else simply because you want a challenge. If you don't want to make a tank with stuff in a spoil bag then don't bloody make a tank with the stuff in a spoil bag. Throw the damn thing out.

 

[sks0315]

I defended dartcraft when this thread was born.
And now I'm watching my successors doing so.

People, haters gonna hate. But don't let haters hurt bluedart because he is awesome

 

[Azzanine]

you say that like unhinged is...

Huh? I don't play Unhinged. If unhinged was two kids on a seesaw, Unleashed would be the fat kid on the ground and Unhinged would be the scrawny one stuck in the air...
Both those mod packs to me at least seem to have not struck a perfect balance of fun vs resistance. Unleashed is fun stacked to the point of being too rich, unhinged is stacked with progression blocks which can only be described as a test of ones tolerance.

Dartcraft is one of those really power rich mods that cater to your impatient player who wants their fun right now and does not want to have to work for it (I find this a reasonable prerogative FYI). I guess I'm way too used to GT's gamplay cock blocks that when I tried to play unleashed I was like "too fast man... too fast!". You end up back in pre GT IC2 days where macerators didn't need diamonds and you didn't have to make plates for machines (which could change in 1.6).

 

[YX33A]

I like Dartcraft. It's useful to the point of being absurd and has a metric assload of cross-mod features it seems.
But overpowered? Maybe. But in comparison to what? Vanilla? Obviously, if a mod does anything more then add aesthetic blocks it is by the definition (as I have come to understand it) overpowered as it is vastly more powerful then vanilla in this instance. But compared to, say, IC2? Not really over powered in my eyes. Yeah, it's got some insanely powerful things you can make, but they take a fairly decent amount of grinding/planning. If you want to make a all powerful drill, you have to get, as previously stated, at least 4 levels in your tome(IIRC) and it's not that useful until you hit 5 or 6(apparently).

I am biased towards liking it, however. Because it's very bloody useful, if occasionally seemingly too powerful for my tastes (force mitt's are insanely good because they net you an insane amount of silverwood saplings[insane at least in comparison to default TC3 rates]). I use it alongside GT with GT as I like it(unedited configs save for increased stack sizes on some things) in my forever alone worlds(SSP is my home, because hell is other people).

Anyway, I have to find a way to make Ars Magicka play nice with Unleashed. Honestly I may end up switching over to Unchained as by the sounds of it it's harder. I just want to do my magic stuff, why must things be confusing?

 

[fergcraft]

I find this thread to be silly. It reminds me of the days of EE2 and people were screaming that it was too easy and others were screaming that it wasn't. I remeber so many people crying when he decided that it needed a revamp and man so many angry people with the same arguments over and over. I mean come on don't like it just don't use it. I don't get why people just continue to cry about it. I'm also tired of all the OP crap and maby it is but thats not the freaking point. It's modded minecraft and their are different ways to accomplish the same freaking goals. Screaming that a mod is OP is crap I like the mods that added new and neat features if your to busy screaming about a mod being OP go play vanilla since that argument could be used for all the mods. oh look I made a quarry I don't have to mine anymore that's to OP. Now everything is about balance and since everyone has a different view on balance how can we have perfectly acceptable balance. The thing is you can't every time you have multible mods your going to have this issue. It's nice that a modder was willing to try and make his mod compatible with other mods to help out people that make modpacks. It's when you have these stupid little spats it's an opinion and everyone has their own. Mine is I like modded minecraft and everything is OP compared to vanilla.

 

[Hydra]

Eh, I got no problem with dartcraft. The thing is I don't see why people call things OP or try to change things.

Because balance is important for server play. Single player it's typically not an issue, but it's annoying if you play on a server and try to 'restrain' yourself while the rest doesn't. There's a fine balance between making stuff too easy and making stuff too tedious, and it's good if mod authors provide configurations so they can be balanced in a pack against other mods. It's not good if 'new' mods make older mods more or less completely useless with the stuff they add. That's what I dislike about the force engine: it totally blows away other early power gen methods.

 

[cynric]

Because balance is important for server play. Single player it's typically not an issue, but it's annoying if you play on a server and try to 'restrain' yourself while the rest doesn't.

I don't consider that a valid argument. If the others on the server don't restrain themselves as you do, then maybe they like it just the way it is. If you can't live with it, you always have the option to find a server and people that share your opinion. What you don't have the right to do in my opinion, is to force every other player on the server to follow your rules. Unless of course it is your server (or modpack), then go ahead - but you can already do that in the config as far as I know, no need for the mod author to change everything if there is a config option.

There's a fine balance between making stuff too easy and making stuff too tedious, and it's good if mod authors provide configurations so they can be balanced in a pack against other mods. It's not good if 'new' mods make older mods more or less completely useless with the stuff they add. That's what I dislike about the force engine: it totally blows away other early power gen methods.

Kinda. It provides 8 mj/tick (with just water which is easy to automate, milk requires more work and investment) however it uses up a limited resource in the process. Somewhat like lava, however lava is usually easier to get a huge amount of (plenty of lava lakes on the surface and close to bedrock, not to mention the nether). And in my opinion, it fills a much needed gap between the other starter machines (stirling, hobbyist, magmatic) and the higher investment boiler+steam engines.

Sure it is better for some things (my quarry runs on one force engine for example) but not outright better then all other options. My ore processing for example runs on lava, because magmatic engines provide just the right amount to power my pulverizer, and lava is already renewable in my world via a simple solar panel + generator feeding a MFR lava generator. My tree farm (MFR, without fertilizer or upgrades) is powered by a hobbyist steam engine, because it is enough and the whole farm is self sufficient that way. I like having those options, otherwise my quarry probably would be terribly slow (1,6 mj/t from a hobbyist probably) or I would need to already setup a boiler for sufficient power, which would mean fertilizer powered tree farm, very likely tesseracts for the power delivery etc.).

 

[twisto51]

Many of the mods gate access to their higher tier blocks with recipes that require relatively rare resources. If you have a mod that comes along and makes it trivial to obtain those resources it is an issue. I think you'll see some mods resort to recipes like the galgadorian tier tools in Steve's Carts. Even if you can get the materials easy it is still work building the blocks, even if it just making 30 patterns for your AE crafter.

I think the personal restraint argument is kind of silly. If such an argument were valid there would be no point in Survival. All of us could just play creative and restrain our block consumption. lol.

 

[cynric]

Many of the mods gate access to their higher tier blocks with recipes that require relatively rare resources.

And this is actually one of the big problems. What resources are considered rare in an environment where there are mods for almost everything. Stuff you dig out of the earth? Along came turtles, quarries, frame bores etc. Energy? Pumping the nether, tree farms+boilers, solar power. Stuff you need to grow? Automated farms to the rescue. Mob drops? Soul shards, extra utilities "bad" earth or MFR auto spawner appear on the scene. There just isn't anything rare in minecraft anymore, because there is no overall game designer keeping it that way. Even player time can be replaced by automating stuff the player was supposed to do by hand and chunk loading it 24/7 instead of the few hours per day/week the player was supposed to invest in a task.

 

[Whovian]

"Rare" resources are ones which are "difficult" to get, due to physical rarity or otherwise. GT Iridium, for instance. Nether stars are generally considered rare, due to the fact that obtaining them is fairly difficult (though the Holy Hand Grenade sort of ruins this.) If one generalizes the definition of a resource to include enough EU to start up a Fusion Reactor, this would also be fairly difficult to obtain, and so is rare.

Stuff can be automated, but it still takes work to automate the production of the things in question. The rate of production for a certain amount of effort put into building a system is, similarly, important to take into account.

 

[DoctorOr]

but I never said its overpowered because they are simply useless, since nether stars have 0 uses after the first usual ones, which you don't craft more than once (all portal guns, gravity gun, magnet glove) or don't use them frequently (TiC tools)

The idea you never re-create items your character is intended to carry is just a symptom of the "no risk at ANY COST!" mentality of the non-game design in most mods.

Hint: You're supposed to have a death count in survival Minecraft.

 

[zorn]

Why couldn't mods allow more control in their configs or offer different versions with different power levels? MFR tree farms are OP compared to Steve's carts and forestry farms, why couldn't mfr offer configs that let you use harvesters as they are or a nerfed version closer to a forestry farm?

 

[KingTriaxx]

I suppose that's what makes the early parts of the game fun. Later on, you're essentially invincible, but early on it's a challenge to ask "Do I want to take 'rare, valuable tool/weapon' with me and risk losing it? Or do I leave it at home and do without it?" Does DC obviate that? No.

In the end game, it doesn't matter. Yes, you could argue that being late in the game means nothing can harm you, but it also means that it matters less. Yes, my Advanced Diamond Drill is powerful and expensive, but I have the resources to make two or three of them.

Think about vanilla. Your first diamond Pick is incredibly valuable, and something to be carefully, jealously guarded, and kept as safe as possible. Your eighth one is still valuable, but much less irreplaceable.[DOUBLEPOST=1378664611][/DOUBLEPOST]Yes, MFR farms are OP compared to SC Farms, but they used to be of a power with them. SC's nerfs should not dictate nerfs to MFR.

 

[DoctorOr]

I suppose that's what makes the early parts of the game fun. Later on, you're essentially invincible, but early on it's a challenge to ask "Do I want to take 'rare, valuable tool/weapon' with me and risk losing it? Or do I leave it at home and do without it?" Does DC obviate that? No.

In 1.5.2, it absolutely does. You can be invulerable with top tier tools in an hour of server up, and you only really need to mine until you get that single first force ore to start it all off.

Think about vanilla. Your first diamond Pick is incredibly valuable, and something to be carefully, jealously guarded, and kept as safe as possible. Your eighth one is still valuable, but much less irreplaceable.[DOUBLEPOST=1378664611][/DOUBLEPOST]Yes, MFR farms are OP compared to SC Farms, but they used to be of a power with them. SC's nerfs should not dictate nerfs to MFR.

Watch servers like mindcrack, they're still scrimping diamonds months into the map. Because there's constant lossage.