Am I the only one who likes the gregtech recipes?

[Hydra]

I think Greg should just focus on adding new interesting stuff (preferrably that isn't adding to the issue of 'free' energy like his new geothermals) instead of messing about with other mods. If he is not happy about how 'cheap' some recipies are (seriously, 11 diamonds for a quarry is expensive enough, no need to mess with it) he could always start a discussion with the mod author. If that author disagree's with Greg (and implicitly they do, because they didn't change the recipies themselves) he should leave the stuff alone IMHO.

I think it's quite funny that FTB is rather big on mod ownership and that providing a mirror without permission is 'bad' but that actually changing the mod itself is somehow 'okay'. That's one of the main reasons I dislike the way Greg handles things: his complete disregard of the intentions of the mod authors. Personally I think it's good to have additional tiers of equipment on top of for example IC2 but that doesn't require you to touch the existing mods at all.

 

[MilConDoin]

In the beginning of my personal GT experience (FTB BETA A), I didn't like that mod. But it grew on me.
Currently I only have a few complaints, some of which can be changed via config.
Config-solvable: storageblockcrafting and storageblockreversecrafting, ForestryBronzeNerf
Other complaints:
- Centrifuge too damn slow (40 minutes? don't like it). Would be solvable by accepting a few IC2 overclockers (4 sounds fair to me. 1/4 the time, 5 times the EU/t).
- Too many dusts and cells, some of which without a purpose currently. Just condense some of the intermediate steps. Sometimes I think he wants to implement MineChem with all his electrolyzing into Na, K, Ca, O², C, S, Be, Li, Al, Si, ...
- Multiblockstructures don't have their interface element on consistent places. It would be better, if they would all be on the top or all be at the bottom of a side. Would make for more consistent production hall designs. It should especially be possible to hide all the power cables. Maybe let the whole structure accept the cable and not only the interface element.

I hope, that Greg will solve my complaints over time. Given that he improves all the time, I'm optimistic.

 

[Chrono]

I think Greg should just focus on adding new interesting stuff (preferrably that isn't adding to the issue of 'free' energy like his new geothermals) instead of messing about with other mods. If he is not happy about how 'cheap' some recipies are (seriously, 11 diamonds for a quarry is expensive enough, no need to mess with it) he could always start a discussion with the mod author. If that author disagree's with Greg (and implicitly they do, because they didn't change the recipies themselves) he should leave the stuff alone IMHO.

I think it's quite funny that FTB is rather big on mod ownership and that providing a mirror without permission is 'bad' but that actually changing the mod itself is somehow 'okay'. That's one of the main reasons I dislike the way Greg handles things: his complete disregard of the intentions of the mod authors. Personally I think it's good to have additional tiers of equipment on top of for example IC2 but that doesn't require you to touch the existing mods at all.

What is the point of adding end game equipment if you can get it really early due to other mods?
Greg just want stuff not being useless, who would ever use the original 3 cooper + 1 tin dust dust from IC 2 wen forestry allowed you to double the amount of bronze per copper/tin?
Stop spreading misinformation, Greg barely changes recipes of mods other than IC2, he only changes them if he consider them "exploits".

 

[kcbanner]

I love GregTech, haters gonna hate.

 

[Hydra]

What is the point of adding end game equipment if you can get it really early due to other mods?
Greg just want stuff not being useless, who would ever use the original 3 cooper + 1 tin dust dust from IC 2 wen forestry allowed you to double the amount of bronze per copper/tin?

Who cares about a sille bronze recipe? Forestry adds this recipe because, unlike IC2, you need a LOT of bronze. Aside from for a wrench IC2 hardly uses bronze. It makes complete sense that Forestry adds a recipe and all Greg does is go "OMG! Too easy! NURF!"

Stop spreading misinformation, Greg barely changes recipes of mods other than IC2, he only changes them if he consider them "exploits".

First of all: if you can't keep a civil tone I have no interest in having an exchange of thoughts with you. I'm not "spreading misinformation", I'm just giving my opinion, like you are doing.

Secondly: whether recipies are "exploits" is pretty much a matter of Gregs personal opinion it seems. Stuff like an expensive macerator (needs 3 diamonds for a first-tier machine), an expensive quarry (needs IC2 components which makes no sense whatsoever for a BC machine) or storage blocks needing a compressor (suddenly you need a compressor to make glowstone blocks out of dusts. WHY?).

Also: one of the biggest issues in the FTB pack is the availability of free lava from the Nether. Because it's so easy to just set up a pump in the Nether no one is bothering with nuclear reactors (which are complex) anymore. And instead of fixing this huge issue he adds his own geothermal generator which is EVEN MORE efficient!

In my opinion Greg has no idea about game design because he has no idea about fun and balance. Fun isn't making stuff tedious. Having to use a compressor to make glowstone blocks isn't fun, it's just tedious because it takes longer. Gathering or creating glowstone dust is bottlenecked by the availability of the stuff (or redstone dust) enough already.

Balance means that every machine should remain useful. You don't improve balance by just adding your own high tier stuff that's 'better' in every way just to make sure people use your mod.

If you find stuff taking loads longer fun: fine. Be my guest and enjoy GregTech. I am spending enough time building my base and setting up propeer automation already, I don't feel like spending even more hours before I have my first quarry set up at all. If that's your idea of fun we're definately not going to agree.

 

[Chrono]

Who cares about a sille bronze recipe? Forestry adds this recipe because, unlike IC2, you need a LOT of bronze. Aside from for a wrench IC2 hardly uses bronze. It makes complete sense that Forestry adds a recipe and all Greg does is go "OMG! Too easy! NURF!"

First of all: if you can't keep a civil tone I have no interest in having an exchange of thoughts with you. I'm not "spreading misinformation", I'm just giving my opinion, like you are doing.

Secondly: whether recipies are "exploits" is pretty much a matter of Gregs personal opinion it seems. Stuff like an expensive macerator (needs 3 diamonds for a first-tier machine), an expensive quarry (needs IC2 components which makes no sense whatsoever for a BC machine) or storage blocks needing a compressor (suddenly you need a compressor to make glowstone blocks out of dusts. WHY?).

In my opinion Greg has no idea about game design because he has no idea about fun. Fun isn't making stuff tedious. Having to use a compressor to make glowstone blocks isn't fun, it's just tedious because it takes longer. Gathering or creating glowstone dust is bottlenecked by the availability of the stuff (or redstone dust) enough already.

If you find stuff taking loads longer fun: fine. Be my guest and enjoy GregTech. I am spending enough time building my base and setting up propeer automation already, I don't feel like spending even more hours before I have my first quarry set up at all. If that's your idea of fun we're definately not going to agree.

What you don't realize is that it can all the turned off, and the only reason people hate it so much is because the Mindcrack pack has the stuff set to the hardest level, they wanted it that way, yet everyone hates Greg because he offers and OPTION to make the game harder/ longer by altering recipes...
People seen to forget that while everyone can have an opinion, opinions CAN be wrong.
Hate Gregtech for the machines he adds and not for the optional changes he makes to other mods.

 

[Hydra]

What you don't realize is that it can all the turned off, and the only reason people hate it so much is because the Mindcrack pack has the stuff set to the hardest level, they wanted it that way, yet everyone hates Greg because he offers and OPTION to make the game harder/ longer by altering recipes...
People seen to forget that while everyone can have an opinion, opinions CAN be wrong.
Hate Gregtech for the machines he adds and not for the optional changes he makes to other mods.

Like I said: if you can't keep it civil don't bother replying. Insisting I don't know you can turn it off is insulting. Instead you could just have asked. Just like insisting that my opinions are wrong: if you can't act like an adult then please go play with the little kids.

I know damn well it can't be turned off, that's not the problem. My problem with GregTech is that it goes against the wishes of mod authors and should not be supplied with a pack that puts so much weight into what mod authors want.

 

[Chrono]

Like I said: if you can't keep it civil don't bother replying. Insisting I don't know you can turn it off is insulting. Instead you could just have asked. Just like insisting that my opinions are wrong: if you can't act like an adult then please go play with the little kids.

I know damn well it can't be turned off, that's not the problem. My problem with GregTech is that it goes against the wishes of mod authors and should not be supplied with a pack that puts so much weight into what mod authors want.

Hater's gonna hate.

 

[whythisname]

Am I the only one thinking this topic needs a lock?

No one here is getting happier, smarter or anything else positive from this topic. Not that every single topic has to be positive, but at the very least it has to be constructive then, which this topic is not.

 

[Hydra]

Am I the only one thinking this topic needs a lock?

Why? Just because some kids can't have a civil discussion the thread should be locked? No, leave the thread be and just ban the kids who can't behave themselves.

Discussions are good. You get new insights by engaging in discussion with people you disagree with. The problem is some kids who thing that just because you disagree you can insult people. Those people should be banned to teach them that that's not the way to behave.

 

[Chrono]

Why? Just because some kids can't have a civil discussion the thread should be locked? No, leave the thread be and just ban the kids who can't behave themselves.

Discussions are good. You get new insights by engaging in discussion with people you disagree with. The problem is some kids who thing that just because you disagree you can insult people. Those people should be banned to teach them that that's not the way to behave.

Not really a "discussion" wen you're unable to change your views on the subject and resort to insults yourself.

 

[madaffacca]

Why? Just because some kids can't have a civil discussion the thread should be locked? No, leave the thread be and just ban the kids who can't behave themselves.

Discussions are good. You get new insights by engaging in discussion with people you disagree with. The problem is some kids who thing that just because you disagree you can insult people. Those people should be banned to teach them that that's not the way to behave.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Antice]

The only thing that really grates me about these discussions is that there are so many people who think that THEY should have a say at all over what goes or does not go into a third party pack like the mindcrack pack.
That pack belongs to the mindcrackers, it's set up after THEIR wishes, and nobody but the mindcrackers get/should get any say what so ever about what goes into it.
The pack is for fans of the mindcrack LP'ers that want to play with the same stuff their fav LP'ers use. if you don't like how it's set up then go away and close the door after you. You won't be missed at all.

I just wish people would stop bitching about this crap.
Go play with another pack/make your own if you don't like this particular one.


Note: this is not aimed at anyone in particular, it's aimed at the general tone this thread has devolved down into. I definitely would have been swinging a giant ban-hammer of doom on this thread at least a page or two ago if i were in charge. (probably a good thing I'm not in charge probably)

 

[Honza8D]

Like I said: if you can't keep it civil don't bother replying. Insisting I don't know you can turn it off is insulting. Instead you could just have asked. Just like insisting that my opinions are wrong: if you can't act like an adult then please go play with the little kids.

I know damn well it can't be turned off, that's not the problem. My problem with GregTech is that it goes against the wishes of mod authors and should not be supplied with a pack that puts so much weight into what mod authors want.

Just because other mod authors don't balance their mods with GT in mind doesn't mean they are againts that. At least he tries to add cross mod compatibility and fixes cross mod exploits. And if you want to play it without changes to other mods you can change configs. what would be the point of a modpack, if all mods where isolated and there would be no cross mod compatibility

 

[whythisname]

Why? Just because some kids can't have a civil discussion the thread should be locked? No, leave the thread be and just ban the kids who can't behave themselves.

Discussions are good. You get new insights by engaging in discussion with people you disagree with. The problem is some kids who thing that just because you disagree you can insult people. Those people should be banned to teach them that that's not the way to behave.

So did you get any new insights from the discussion in this topic? I didn't. Yeah, that GregTech haters talk like they're better than GregTech lovers and that there is no point in trying to convince them otherwise, but that's nothing new.

I see no reason why I shouldn't like GregTech anymore and it's pretty obvious the "haters" aren't even trying to see anything positive about GregTech. The only true argument I can see is that editing the config might be a stumbling block for the less computer literate among us, but that's something you can easily deal with if you invest the time you're arguing here into looking into it and perhaps asking questions on these or other forums. If the philosophy behind GregTech is what you dislike then I honestly don't see a point in discussing because that's a matter of taste as there really are no arguments to persuade someone from one side to the other.

Either way this discussion is pointless, I don't gain anything, you don't gain anything, no one here gains anything. Especially because GregTech has already been discussed/argued to death by now I honestly don't see what yet another discussion is going to add.

Now if you did gain any insight from this discussion, please share it. Prove me wrong.

 

[Hydra]

The only thing that really grates me about these discussions is that there are so many people who think that THEY should have a say at all over what goes or does not go into a third party pack like the mindcrack pack.

I think you misunderstand me. GT should definately be in the Mindcrack pack if the 'owners' of that pack want that and I have nothing whatsoever against that. And although I don't understand why people like the tedious recipies (and probably never will) I full support that they should be able to enjoy Minecraft the way they like. So please don't think that I want GT removed from the Mindcrack pack, I think it's the right place for such a mod.

So did you get any new insights from the discussion in this topic? I didn't. Yeah, that GregTech haters talk like they're better than GregTech lovers and that there is no point in trying to convince them otherwise, but that's nothing new.

I don't see how people who dislike GT are talking like they're better. It's all a matter of opinions. My opinion isn't 'better' than yours, we just disagree on what's fun. And that's fine. I find it interesting why stuff that I dislike is likes by others because I might be missing something for example. But sofar I haven't seen anything.

Now if you did gain any insight from this discussion, please share it. Prove me wrong.

That I haven't come to any insights I didn't know yet doesn't mean it's impossible. I am just saying that it's rediculous to lock a topic just because some people can't be civil. I mean, what's the point? If people lose interest a topic dies off anyway.

However: I am getting the feeling that some people here dislike even seeing opinion that don't correspond to their own, and if that is the case, they troll until the topic gets closed. I personally think their should be harsh penalties for people who deliberately try to derail a discussion in such a manner. Forums are created so people exchange information. If you think you should only be able to do that if you have similar opinions on such matter you simply aren't mature enough for a forum.

 

[ICountFrom0]

Sure, I've an insight.

I've been quiet on this subject for a while again, but the similarity between the responses here, and the ones over in the other thread about tekkit got me thinking.

It's about respect.

GT has little respect for my time, the assumption that I can leave the computer running for the better part of an hour, it's true but it's not respectful.
The assumption that his word, and not the word of the mod author is the important one, it's not respectful.

The easy out of "change the CFG file" it's not respectful either. That's an argument that you make when you have no other argument to make. It lets you admit that the other side is absolutely right and that it does need changing, without admitting that the other setting is wrong.

Let me say that the only thing we have to judge gregt by is his work. If that work does not seem respectful, if that work seems arrogant, it's a natural conclusion.

Now, take a step back, I compared this thread to the one over there about tekkit. Then I used the word respect.

The core argument there is about respecting the mod authors.

And you either agree with it, or you don't. And if you don't agree with it, you are going to look at those who are asking for respect, and likely laugh, perhaps with cynicism, perhaps just because you are a bit of a sociopath, or maybe simple youth. Who am I to judge?

This topic, really the same thing. Once all the facts are known (by the end of the 2nd page everybody is up to speed, if you are going to see something new it's going to be early) it comes down to respect. In this case it's not even as clear cut as both sides really come down to a person who just wants to make something COOL. You get behind one of those people, you respect them more then the other. And likewise, if you don't understand that respect is a 'thing' and that it matters, there's nothing here for you.

Honestly, that's okay. That's life.

I could likely rewrite most of these posts in such a way that it's a statement of "gregT isn't respecting XYZ" or "You should respect gregT and his hard work more" or "you should respect the FTB team, they did this for us, for free" or "Respect Guude, he wanted it hard." or even "respect me enough to not insult me even if you disagree."

So, please, can we have a little respect for the other side too? Nobody really wants to be told that what they feel, is a crock. Nobody wants to be told that what they feel is bad.

We're all human.

 

[Evil Hamster]

My opinion is just as valid as anyone elses and I don't resort to namedropping

So true!

I'm still waiting to see a response based on your opinion to my pointing out the fact that everything gregtech changes in other mods is completely optional-> chosen to be changed by the player, not the mod itself. Only the person who sets up the config files is actually changing other mods. Gregtech is simply giving people more options.

Some people like and appreciate the challenge, some don't. My next SSP world will be hard mode. My current world SMP with my children is easy mode because I know they don't want the hard recipes.

 

[Honza8D]

Sure, I've an insight.

I've been quiet on this subject for a while again, but the similarity between the responses here, and the ones over in the other thread about tekkit got me thinking.

It's about respect.

GT has little respect for my time, the assumption that I can leave the computer running for the better part of an hour, it's true but it's not respectful.
The assumption that his word, and not the word of the mod author is the important one, it's not respectful.
...

So making something last long time is disrepectful? You know some people like GT's pacing, but just because its too long for YOU its disrespectful. Thats the same like if i said your post was disrespectful to my time because i find it too long.

And could you please show me where mod author aksed Greg to remove his changes to other mod
and Greg refused? Because i dont know of any.

 

[ICountFrom0]

Honza8d, you know I said no such thing, so show me a little respect and don't pretend I did.

I'm asking for calm and civility, and if you think that's too much to ask, well, honestly you might be right, but we can try to pretend to be better then we are, can't we?