[1.7.10] Shattered

[Nezraddin]

*cheers for the coming update*

About salpeter/niter:
It's for preparation to the ressource-seeds (redstone seeds, iron seed and so). NEI tells me that it only grows on "Mutagenic Soil" which needs Phyto-Gro to craft and all three Phyto-Gro recipes needs niter/salpeter.
Found already 2 niter in the rubble piles, and a single niter - using the best recipe for Phyto-Gro - can make around 3 stacks of mutagenic soil. But at the moment it's alot of RNG from the rubble piles (no desert near and none of the blaze-likes which drops niter in my biomes)


Two more things I noticed while playing:

- The "adventurer backpack" is kinda a troll reward from rubble-piles at the moment. (it's the backpack from forestry that does nothing unless you write into it's config which items it's allowed to accept).
Not that much a problem, with all the good things you get out of them, a few troll rewards are not bad. Just this one is evil "Yay a bag! ... Can't put anything inside *sniff*" *smirks evilly*

Second thing:
- The smeltery crafting:
I like the recipes for the controller, drain and so. They make the smeltery really an difficult crafting but it really feels like you achieved something when you finished one of these parts.

The problem I see are with "Seared Brick", "Seared Glass" and "Seared Window". The balance between these three recipes is quiet of. Besides the steel-scaffolding seared Brick needs 4 Steel-ingots while the Seared Window only takes 4 glass.
So - besides the bottom of the smeltery which need to be bricks - there would never be a reason to craft the bricks or glass. (unless you really have no sand at all, but then once you have the crusher you can make your own sand)

Seen on the quiet expensive - early game seen - recipes for controller, drain, the casting table/basin and faucet. I wonder if the blocks which are only meant to expand the smeltery shouldn't be on the level of the seared windows.
Alone the steel scafollding makes it around 8 steel ingots per 6 blocks for the smeltery, which makes expanding it already expensive.
So instead of additional steel-ingots beside the steel scaffolding another use for seared bricks would be better I think.
Like:
- Seared bricks: Steel scaffolding + 4 seared bricks
- Seared glass: Steel scaffolding + 2 glass + 2 seared bricks
- Seared window: Steel scaffolding + 3 glass + 1 Seared brick
or something along these lines.

 

[egor66]

Edit: seems I was generating skyland & not dim+mods

 

[Nezraddin]

One problem at the moment:

Putting normal Iron Ore (so not the average, pure or so) into the crusher gives you the "Iron Grit" from Immersive Engineering. But this iron grit's 'only' way to get ingots out of is the ticon smeltery. So you cannot use a normal furnace, or even the arc furnace to make ingots out of them.
(The nickel grit seems fine, so it's not all of IE's metal dust versions)

 

[Golrith]

Hmm, really? Crusher should be outputting TE dust, not IE grit. I even tested this. I'll look into it. For now, just cheat exchange the dust.

 

[Nedrith]

My opinion on the smeltery is that it could be changed so that each use of the recipe gives 2 seared bricks. The big thing is lava usage. Early game I turned 36 bronze ingots into blocks since you have to use the smeltery. In my small 1 slot smeltery to save on steel it took a lot of lava. in a 9 slot smeltery it would of cost almost no lava.

Edit: so I have 2 railcraft tanks feeding into a single agricraft tank. Can't even keep up with a single! sprinkler, this is with the tanks placed in a shrubland biome. I'm guessing 3 tanks would be needed. Looking at the methods to make water it seems either more tanks or leaves/cactus in a industrial squeezer. Should be interesting.

Looking at the update I might need to check out the nether thought it was disabled for some reason!

 

[twisto51]

Shrubland is pretty dry. I setup in a Moor last game and the one tank I had was half-full in less than a minecraft week. Just another item to add to that early-game checklist when considering where to build. Unfortunately that Moor was next to the largest area of Taint I've seen in this modpack. Would have had to move if it hadn't been for that silverfish swarm that got me.

 

[Golrith]

My opinion on the smeltery is that it could be changed so that each use of the recipe gives 2 seared bricks. The big thing is lava usage. Early game I turned 36 bronze ingots into blocks since you have to use the smeltery. In my small 1 slot smeltery to save on steel it took a lot of lava. in a 9 slot smeltery it would of cost almost no lava.

Edit: so I have 2 railcraft tanks feeding into a single agricraft tank. Can't even keep up with a single! sprinkler, this is with the tanks placed in a shrubland biome. I'm guessing 3 tanks would be needed. Looking at the methods to make water it seems either more tanks or leaves/cactus in a industrial squeezer. Should be interesting.

Looking at the update I might need to check out the nether thought it was disabled for some reason!

You do also have the TE aqueous accumulator, but that's not exactly an early game option. It can be, but it'll cost you a lot more without more supportive tech in place.

I used the tanks in Regrowth, found one tank could just about deal with 2 farms but usually only if it rained.

So looks like the solution to a lot of problems is to build more and bigger. That's good


Yes, nether is available. Nothing special about going there (or is there...), just be careful if you build a new portal back to the overworld. You don't always get back on land.


I'll look at making the smeltry recipe a bit more generous since lava is more difficult to obtain in this skylands enviroment (unless you go to the nether...)

 

[Nezraddin]

Phew... this ore-generation sure is confusing *laughs*
At least when you're used to "ore A is mainly found in y-levels B to C", here it feels like all ores are all over the place. Makes it quiet complicated to choose the right height for searching what you're missing (mainly redstone, lapis and diamonds for me at the moment).

And found a very interessting thing, hanging from under the island. I bet this will be another death for me *chuckles*

And while I'm at writing:
I like the new textures you gave most things. Was first a bit confusing (usually I only play with faithful) but I really like them now

 

[Golrith]

Phew... this ore-generation sure is confusing *laughs*
At least when you're used to "ore A is mainly found in y-levels B to C", here it feels like all ores are all over the place. Makes it quiet complicated to choose the right height for searching what you're missing (mainly redstone, lapis and diamonds for me at the moment).

And found a very interessting thing, hanging from under the island. I bet this will be another death for me *chuckles*

And while I'm at writing:
I like the new textures you gave most things. Was first a bit confusing (usually I only play with faithful) but I really like them now

The ore gen is still pretty much like that. Deeper you go, the better the resources. Sure it means that most of the really good stuff is over the void, that's your challenge The big difference that it's not every chunk, but a chance per chunk. With the rarer stuff being far apart, but when you find it, you get a large amount.
Textures are as close to vanilla MC (for blocks) as possible if they scaled up and looked good at 32x, otherwise it's a new texture I made or one from john smith/misa, whichever fits better. Every resource pack causes confusion once you are used to a particular style.


Script Hotfix: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46396473/Shattered/scripts.zip
Download this and extract into your scripts folder, replacing existing files.

This will fix/change/add:
Iron Grit Derp
Aluminium Grit instead of Alumnium Dust
Both the IE and Railcraft Coke Ovens produce RC Coke
Added an alternative grinder recipe, making bronze available without needing certus/nether quartz
Added a way to get Niter/Sulfur for Mutagentic Soil progression
Adjusted Grindstone Gravel recipe


These changes will allow progression without relying on the random luck of rubble and lootbags, or on specific world generation.

 

[Nezraddin]

Thank you for all the fast fixes


And I guess finding silver ore in the deeper levels should have been a sign for it. But this one single diamond block I found on ~y55 was the reason I wasn't sure if "deeper -> better stuff" is still the case.
At least Iron I won't have a problem for a very long time... I run from one huge vein into another *laughs* And... lots of silverfishes. Slowly getting paranoid while mining. *smirks*

Guess back to mining close to the void... in direction of this cage... I'm so sure it will kill me *laughs*

 

[Golrith]

Fixes are required, small little things that will block progression.

Have fun with that discovery...


Next release I'm adding in another mod, can you tell what it is?

Spoiler

It will be more difficult to craft, but it does drop from lootbags.

 

[Nezraddin]

Phew, thinking it's a good idea to go down right under the island into the void and building bridges there while searching for ressources really backfired so far *laughs*
Thanks to the hardcore darkness you hardly see any veins unless you place a lightblock right under/beside it... but I guess still better than fighting all these basalz while trying to climb down the mountains to see if a vein is at the side of it. *smirks*

So far my progression pretty much has stopped at railcraft blast furnace, IE crusher and raising all flowers I could in agricraft until I'm lucky enough to find redstone. but at least my island will be quiet bright underneath once I'm done setting up my bridges *laughs*

 

[twisto51]

Mob farm is an option for redstone since Witches drop it. Probably won't be your main source but every little bit helps. I'll build IE crusher tomorrow, then think about RC crusher or smeltery(for gear mold).

The question with lava is do I find 10 of the single lava sourceblocks which are quite obvious streaming into the void and build a nether portal to open up access to plenty of lava or do I use every bit of lava I find simply to get that gear mold made? Playing hardcore mode I'm not really looking forward to stepping foot into the Nether and getting attacked before I even have control of my character. Actually this far along I'm starting to get so chicken about losing the world that I find excuses to work on stuff inside the base instead of venturing out into danger.

Drooling at the thought of a portal gun. Would make island-hopping so much easier. Jumping back and forth to various mines would become much less risky than skybridges, etc.

Built my current base on a small island that is Seasonal Forest biome. Appears to be fairly wet with respect to Railcraft water tanks. I can run two sprinklers on one tank. Have four of the tanks---most of which I scavenged during my day-long adventure finding this place---so still plenty of excess for drinking/crafting.

 

[Nezraddin]

Well I finally found Redstone and it really brings me forward.

Though one bug that keeps me at bay for now:
- The Advanced Blast Furnace of IE doesn't accept iron to be put inside for making steel.
(RC coke works fine, just not the iron itself)

---

RC crusher... once I find some more diamonds. After all this crusher needs 12 Diamonds to be crafted, I only found a single ore so far, which seemed to be totally missplaced (was on Y-level 55)

Witches, I thought about them, but I usually don't have much luck with witches in mob farms and with alot of these blaze-like creatures which might spawn inside... well flying mobs are always an annoyance in early game mob farms.

 

[egor66]

One thing I noticed willow logs give 4 planks but every other type of log gives only 2 so I guess its an over sight, you have done a really good job at locking my progress at every turn , everything I knew about MC is of little if any use in this pack, its very difficult but not that grindy, just takes a lot of planning to get to the next stage, each time I need to get an item like lets say fluid pipes of some kind, TE is out atm not got the infrastructure yet, contuits & ducts both use binding!! & plates, IC but I will not use redstone engines just seems out of place, so node maybe & I find I have no alu, yep blocked at every turn, but when you do manage to get past a required stage its good & you know there is yet another awaiting, this is enough to keep me interested, & the piles & scrap is very fun & interesting can help you along a lot but not break your progress (not allow you to skip a major stage) all in all a very interesting & fun pack, one I think will hold my interest for some time to come.

Your doing a nice job here but just dont go over board & make its a grindy pack a very easy pot hole to fall into, the balance v reward seems fine atm, & I see why you dont want a questing system in place, but for newer players I think it may help a lot with the progression lines, again as long as any reward is minor & no chance of game breaking (like the dreaded luck blocks) I think it could add to the feel & maybe be used to give the player something that can be hard to find & is needed to progress like silverwood sapling.

Ps, the only gripe I would have is all the values on food & the rot values just takes up a lot of space!

All in all great work.

 

[Golrith]

Mob farm is an option for redstone since Witches drop it. Probably won't be your main source but every little bit helps. I'll build IE crusher tomorrow, then think about RC crusher or smeltery(for gear mold).

The question with lava is do I find 10 of the single lava sourceblocks which are quite obvious streaming into the void and build a nether portal to open up access to plenty of lava or do I use every bit of lava I find simply to get that gear mold made? Playing hardcore mode I'm not really looking forward to stepping foot into the Nether and getting attacked before I even have control of my character. Actually this far along I'm starting to get so chicken about losing the world that I find excuses to work on stuff inside the base instead of venturing out into danger.

Drooling at the thought of a portal gun. Would make island-hopping so much easier. Jumping back and forth to various mines would become much less risky than skybridges, etc.

Built my current base on a small island that is Seasonal Forest biome. Appears to be fairly wet with respect to Railcraft water tanks. I can run two sprinklers on one tank. Have four of the tanks---most of which I scavenged during my day-long adventure finding this place---so still plenty of excess for drinking/crafting.

Portal Gun won't be an early game item though, unless you are lucky to find one as a loot bag reward. Looking at what I'm planning for the recipe you might be able to setup the infrastructure fairly early to get the processing started. Still an WIP thought at the moment.

Well I finally found Redstone and it really brings me forward.

Though one bug that keeps me at bay for now:
- The Advanced Blast Furnace of IE doesn't accept iron to be put inside for making steel.
(RC coke works fine, just not the iron itself)

---

RC crusher... once I find some more diamonds. After all this crusher needs 12 Diamonds to be crafted, I only found a single ore so far, which seemed to be totally missplaced (was on Y-level 55)

Witches, I thought about them, but I usually don't have much luck with witches in mob farms and with alot of these blaze-like creatures which might spawn inside... well flying mobs are always an annoyance in early game mob farms.

Eek, now that's an unexpected issue, not being able to make steel. I'll look into that.

One thing I noticed willow logs give 4 planks but every other type of log gives only 2 so I guess its an over sight, you have done a really good job at locking my progress at every turn , everything I knew about MC is of little if any use in this pack, its very difficult but not that grindy, just takes a lot of planning to get to the next stage, each time I need to get an item like lets say fluid pipes of some kind, TE is out atm not got the infrastructure yet, contuits & ducts both use binding!! & plates, IC but I will not use redstone engines just seems out of place, so node maybe & I find I have no alu, yep blocked at every turn, but when you do manage to get past a required stage its good & you know there is yet another awaiting, this is enough to keep me interested, & the piles & scrap is very fun & interesting can help you along a lot but not break your progress (not allow you to skip a major stage) all in all a very interesting & fun pack, one I think will hold my interest for some time to come.

Your doing a nice job here but just dont go over board & make its a grindy pack a very easy pot hole to fall into, the balance v reward seems fine atm, & I see why you dont want a questing system in place, but for newer players I think it may help a lot with the progression lines, again as long as any reward is minor & no chance of game breaking (like the dreaded luck blocks) I think it could add to the feel & maybe be used to give the player something that can be hard to find & is needed to progress like silverwood sapling.

Ps, the only gripe I would have is all the values on food & the rot values just takes up a lot of space!

All in all great work.

Thanks. Yes there are some trees that produce 4 logs. They are mainly specific BoP and I think forestry trees. It's an oversight (or a design feature, your choice )

Yeah, this pack is not designed to be a massive grind. Just "intricate". Slot each piece of the progress puzzle in place, and you can progress nicely to the next piece. You should end up using a lot of different mod machines to craft various items, so once automated request crafting kicks in, you should see your factory kick into life. I don't mind a complicated grind type recipe if it unlocks your progression. But if it's used as part of a common component, that is a bad design.

I could possibly add a small HQM just to get you started and down the right path. I find writing HQM quests very soul destroying


What are your guys thoughts on Rot? Worthwhile mechanic, or just a nuisance?

 

[twisto51]

Yes, I pick up willow during my nomad phase. I usually snag some bamboo too.

Willow is also nice in that it is always a straight, single trunk and produces a large amount of saplings per tree. I even like the color of the wood.

http://imgur.com/a/Vy5cz bit of willow in use here at Camp Blueberry.

Witches, I thought about them, but I usually don't have much luck with witches in mob farms and with alot of these blaze-like creatures which might spawn inside... well flying mobs are always an annoyance in early game mob farms.

The blaze-like mobs from TE only spawn in particular biomes. Blizzes in ice/snow, Blitzes in windy, etc.

I'm talking a manual mob farm, though, so they're not a problem, you just chop their non-existent feet like anything else that shows up. What is a problem are bats, have to build it above y-level 64 I think to not get bats. The only real problem is mantakitties picking fights with creepers causing a giant, mob-spewing hole in the side of your mob farm.

Haven't seen a loot bag in ages for some reason.

 

[Golrith]

Yes, I pick up willow during my nomad phase. I usually snag some bamboo too.

Willow is also nice in that it is always a straight, single trunk and produces a large amount of saplings per tree. I even like the color of the wood.

http://imgur.com/a/Vy5cz bit of willow in use here at Camp Blueberry.



The blaze-like mobs from TE only spawn in particular biomes. Blizzes in ice/snow, Blitzes in windy, etc.

I'm talking a manual mob farm, though, so they're not a problem, you just chop their non-existent feet like anything else that shows up. What is a problem are bats, have to build it above y-level 64 I think to not get bats. The only real problem is mantakitties picking fights with creepers causing a giant, mob-spewing hole in the side of your mob farm.

Haven't seen a loot bag in ages for some reason.

Nice screenie. Makes my progress look pathetic

I'm going to add another way to get certain resources. It won't be very efficient, but it may help you to progress in more efficient ways to get that resource. For those times when worldgen RNG is totally against you.

I did reduce the chance of lootbags, it's supposed to be half of what it was, but it's not working out that way. I'll tweak a bit more.

 

[Nezraddin]

Guess I would need to make a mobfarm under the jungle then. But for now I'm luckily fine, now that I found redstone my progress speeds up again. Next plan is to actually begin my base... still sitting in my "push everything together just to have it"-base *chuckles*
Alot of plans already... but the design-work is always my weak point which will eat alot of my playtime. After all I want my base to look nice, too.


About the rot-mechanic:
I pretty much began to ignore it, as harsh as it sounds. I first thought that it's nice that you can make dirt out of the rotten food, but it's not like dirt is any rare ressource in the skylands. *smirks*
So I pretty much just harvest what I need to feed myself for now and everything else (like apples I know I won't need for a while) goes into the trash-can.
Big problem I have with the rotten stuff is: they don't stop rotting after they're rotten - what a sentence, heh - so even at the point you have all the rotten stuff, they hardly stack with each other. Early game that just messes up your storage alot.

And one more thing that might really become bothersome about rotting-mechanic might be mobdrops (rotten flesh - however that can rot even more *smirks* - and spider eyes), because the rotting-mobdrops might be a big problem later for mob farms. You need to trash alot to not fill your storage with alot of 3~5 item per stacks (because of the different rot-values).

So maybe - if possible - at least let the mob-drops not rot.

I thought about suggesting "A few more useful recipes out of the rotten stuff", but at the same time I think these recipes would be like crafting the dirt, it has to be extremly early-game stuff you get out of it, or it might unbalance the game very easilly. So making the early game too easy.
So I'm not really sure if it's worth the time to spend in it to make it worthwhile for early game. (beside: you already have these rubble-piles for random stuff early game, so adding rot to it, too, might be too much)



[edit]
Of course the "dirt is not rare" depends on your game. When you're in a huge desert with very little dirt, crafting dirt out of the rot might be fantastic.

 

[Golrith]

Feel free to suggest recipes. The key design is that if they are for early game they are inefficient. You need to use tech.

Doesn't look like Rot can be made item specific. So it's all or none. My main concern is storage once automation kicks in. Are you going to need 7 barrels for each days worth of rot to store your apples, plus then if they rot, how to deal with that.

But if it's a mechanic you are ignoring, and more concerned about the different stacks, that becomes a micromanagement game with no advantage, which is a vote to remove.