[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]

[Pyure]

So I ran out of gold and set my Miner over a Magnetite ore vein, getting 8 stacks of crushed gold ore. Obviously I could just smelt it for 8 stacks of gold (plus the one-nugget bonus), but I'd like to do more than that if possible. What are my best options?

1. Use Mercury to get a 70% chance of a gold dust from each crushed, then smelt the centrifuged product for 10 gold nuggets each?
2. Do IC2 crops until I get the Aurelia leaf? I haven't started crops yet.
3. Do Gendustry until I get Gold Combs from bees? I haven't started bees yet.

How long might options 2 and 3 take me? If reasonable (i.e. a week or so) I would be willing to spend that time. If not reasonable, then I guess option 1 is my best choice for now?

Best output would be from bees or crops, probably bees. But fair warning, a bees project will take you a good amount of time to do unless you're already pretty decent with bees.

 

[asb3pe]

This is my exact calculation as well. I come up with 9600 L/s for his setup.

So then while I'm AT capacity, I haven't EXCEEDED it. But GT Fluid pipes are not 100% efficient, obviously, and that's where my problem ultimately lies.

 

[asb3pe]

Best output would be from bees or crops, probably bees. But fair warning, a bees project will take you a good amount of time to do unless you're already pretty decent with bees.

I'm a Binnie guy, I've done ALL the bees before in numerous packs. I love bees. The problem is... this isn't a "Binnie" modpack, this is a "Gendustry" modpack and I do not know Gendustry at all, I've never used it. I guess this is the pack where I learn it.

 

[Pyure]

So then while I'm AT capacity, I haven't EXCEEDED it. But GT Fluid pipes are not 100% efficient, obviously, and that's where my problem ultimately lies.

What's the capacity of a small steel pipe?

 

[asb3pe]

What's the capacity of a small steel pipe?

I edited my post to add it, 1600 L/sec, which is why 6 of them match up to the main trunk carrying 9600 L/sec so well (in theory anyway, in reality cutting it this close is a recipe for disaster obv).

 

[codewarrior0]

I was under the impression that the transfer rate of a GT fluid pipe is only half of its capacity?

Turns out I was correct, but it's even worse than I thought!

Every five ticks, a fluid pipe will eject half of the liquid contained in it. So the Large Steel Pipe, whose capacity says 9600L/sec, can really only transfer 4800L/sec at most. The pipe remembers which way the fluid came in and won't try to eject it back the other way. However, if there is more than one other way for it to eject the fluid to, it will split the amount-to-eject evenly among them without regard to how much each way can actually accept. So if this Large Steel Pipe is at a T-intersection, it will only eject 2400L/sec in each direction. Now, what if one of those directions is another T-intersection? It will have 2400L in it, eject half of that which is 1200L, and then split that up for 600L in each direction.

...Wow, gregtech pipes are pretty terrible!

 

[Pyure]

Turns out I was correct, but it's even worse than I thought!

Every five ticks, a fluid pipe will eject half of the liquid contained in it. So the Large Steel Pipe, whose capacity says 9600L/sec, can really only transfer 4800L/sec at most. The pipe remembers which way the fluid came in and won't try to eject it back the other way. However, if there is more than one other way for it to eject the fluid to, it will split the amount-to-eject evenly among them without regard to how much each way can actually accept. So if this Large Steel Pipe is at a T-intersection, it will only eject 2400L/sec in each direction. Now, what if one of those directions is another T-intersection? It will have 2400L in it, eject half of that which is 1200L, and then split that up for 600L in each direction.

...Wow, gregtech pipes are pretty terrible!

I could swear I checked through the code once and came across an oddity to offset this, where the internal capacity of the pipes itself was higher than advertised, in order to offset this problem.

 

[asb3pe]

Turns out I was correct, but it's even worse than I thought!

Every five ticks, a fluid pipe will eject half of the liquid contained in it. So the Large Steel Pipe, whose capacity says 9600L/sec, can really only transfer 4800L/sec at most. The pipe remembers which way the fluid came in and won't try to eject it back the other way. However, if there is more than one other way for it to eject the fluid to, it will split the amount-to-eject evenly among them without regard to how much each way can actually accept. So if this Large Steel Pipe is at a T-intersection, it will only eject 2400L/sec in each direction. Now, what if one of those directions is another T-intersection? It will have 2400L in it, eject half of that which is 1200L, and then split that up for 600L in each direction.

...Wow, gregtech pipes are pretty terrible!

Wow, did you get that from examining the actual code? I've never heard that analysis before, which if you got it directly from tranlating the software code shouldn't be very surprising. You have a talent! I would have to say you just discovered a key to GT that nobody else ever knew before (or at least, they didn't publicize it very well!).

I could swear I checked through the code once and came across an oddity to offset this, where the internal capacity of the pipes itself was higher than advertised, in order to offset this problem.

Yeah I should have figured Pyure was somewhat of an equal to codewarrior when it comes to this stuff. You guys figure it out please, then let us all know, this is very valuable stuff you're doing, if we can settle this GT Fluid Pipe thing once and for all. How do we use them optimally? It already sounds exactly like the GT Electricity advice from yesterday - branches and junction are bad because it confuses the heck out of the pathing algorithms (or, more appropriately, there IS NO pathing algorithm, and that's pretty much the problem, if it gets too complex then it all just bogs down).

 

[codewarrior0]

I could swear I checked through the code once and came across an oddity to offset this, where the internal capacity of the pipes itself was higher than advertised, in order to offset this problem.

There are... a lot of oddities. Take the Large Steel Pipe as an example. The number in the tooltip is 9600L, but the internal `mCapacity` number is only 480, but the size of the pipe's internal fluid tank is in fact 9600L. Four times per second, the pipe will eject half the fluid contained in it, which will be up to 4800L.

Oh, I guess I was wrong! It can actually move up to twice the listed capacity amount per second. My bad.

But the next thing it does is find out how many directions it can send that 4800L and then divide it evenly among them. So at the first T-intersection, it sends 2400L each way. And if there's another T after that, it sends 600L each way. So a long chain of T-intersections turns out to be pretty bad for total flow rate.

 

[Pyure]

There are... a lot of oddities. Take the Large Steel Pipe as an example. The number in the tooltip is 9600L, but the internal `mCapacity` number is only 480, but the size of the pipe's internal fluid tank is in fact 9600L. Four times per second, the pipe will eject half the fluid contained in it, which will be up to 4800L.

Oh, I guess I was wrong! It can actually move up to twice the listed capacity amount per second. My bad.

But the next thing it does is find out how many directions it can send that 4800L and then divide it evenly among them. So at the first T-intersection, it sends 2400L each way. And if there's another T after that, it sends 600L each way. So a long chain of T-intersections turns out to be pretty bad for total flow rate.

Yeah. I actually tried to brain-code this the other night (my way of falling asleep) and I decided that pipes need to track their pressure level somehow so that when the flows divide, that division is weighted sensibly.

 

[targetingyou78]

So I ran out of gold and set my Miner over a Magnetite ore vein, getting 8 stacks of crushed gold ore. Obviously I could just smelt it for 8 stacks of gold (plus the one-nugget bonus), but I'd like to do more than that if possible. What are my best options?

1. Use Mercury to get a 70% chance of a gold dust from each crushed, then smelt the centrifuged product for 10 gold nuggets each?
2. Do IC2 crops until I get the Aurelia leaf? I haven't started crops yet.
3. Do Gendustry until I get Gold Combs from bees? I haven't started bees yet.

How long might options 2 and 3 take me? If reasonable (i.e. a week or so) I would be willing to spend that time. If not reasonable, then I guess option 1 is my best choice for now?

If you breed a lot of plants you can get Aurelia leaf quite quickly. It took me about a day to get a large number of the crops. It takes a bit longer to boost the stars but even with a decent size farm of low stats will get you enough to get going. Also, you can use the Aurelia leafs to turn the magnetite into gold as well. The bee comb does not have that use iirc.

 

[MarcNemesis]

Lately, someone asked about Biogas using distillery whether or not it was viable.

If you go to page 619 (third posts from the bottom, i posted a picture of a setup i had made that worked quite well.

Basically, it consist of 1 MV Gas Turbine which feed (without cable) 1 MV->LV Transformer. In turn, this transformer fed 5 LV distillery (all adjacent to the transformer with no cable).

I multiplied this setup in time by 4 (in the picture you see the setup 2x.)

The fact that i used no cable saved the energy and made it go arround in fluid state instead of electric state.

 

[Pyure]

If you breed a lot of plants you can get Aurelia leaf quite quickly. It took me about a day to get a large number of the crops. It takes a bit longer to boost the stars but even with a decent size farm of low stats will get you enough to get going. Also, you can use the Aurelia leafs to turn the magnetite into gold as well. The bee comb does not have that use iirc.

Yeah but crops are dumb. Crops function best at high, freezing altitudes that are also in swamps (!!!?????). They generate weeds that can destroy your entire farm in 20 minutes. They can only be automatically harvested by a single mod. (Good point about magnetite though, I didnt know that)

Bees on the other hand have very sensible heat/humidity restrictions, don't auto-fail for no reason, and when they fail, they don't catastrophically destroy every nearby bee. And they function with any piping infrastructure mod. Bees ftw

 

[MarcNemesis]

Yeah but crops are dumb. Crops function best at high, freezing altitudes that are also in swamps (!!!?????). They generate weeds that can destroy your entire farm in 20 minutes. They can only be automatically harvested by a single mod. (Good point about magnetite though, I didnt know that)

Actually, for crops to work well in other biome is simply a matter of fertilizing the soil. After a few seconds (let's say 15 seconds for arguement sake), if the soil if fertilized while there are cropstick on the tilted farmland, nutrients will sink into the soil. Same goes for hydration.

The one thing that cannot be overcome as far as i know is the altitude for air quality.

Edit: The swamp biome simply start right away with high nutrition/hydration.

 

[Pyure]

Actually, for crops to work well in other biome is simply a matter of fertilizing the soil. After a few seconds (let's say 15 seconds for arguement sake), if the soil if fertilized while there are cropstick on the tilted farmland, nutrients will sink into the soil. Same goes for hydration.

The one thing that cannot be overcome as far as i know is the altitude for air quality.

Edit: The swamp biome simply start right away with high nutrition/hydration.

Yeah, honestly my real gripes are the elevation and weeds. The elevation thing a) makes zero sense, and b) ruins my gameplay experience. If I have to keep an eye on my crops every 2 minutes to keep them safe, I don't want to have to climb 150 meters into the air to do it...every 2 minutes.

 

[MarcNemesis]

Yeah, honestly my real gripes are the elevation and weeds. The elevation thing a) makes zero sense, and b) ruins my gameplay experience. If I have to keep an eye on my crops every 2 minutes to keep them safe, I don't want to have to climb 150 meters into the air to do it...every 2 minutes.

Can't argue you on that. The two reason i went the crop way is because we are only two player on my server and my friend went the Bee route and more dinsutrial.

I decided to experiment and learn the crop route and go for a more green approach.

We could of disable the weed but i try not to touch the config too much and play it the way it was meant to be.

 

[ColdComfort]

Actually, for crops to work well in other biome is simply a matter of fertilizing the soil. After a few seconds (let's say 15 seconds for arguement sake), if the soil if fertilized while there are cropstick on the tilted farmland, nutrients will sink into the soil. Same goes for hydration.

The one thing that cannot be overcome as far as i know is the altitude for air quality.

Edit: The swamp biome simply start right away with high nutrition/hydration.

That's somewhat true, but tends to break in practice. If you turn off your harvester to breed/expand your field, (which is necessary, unless you also want to run a massive and separate nursery), when you turn it on it will harvest plants sequentially over the field.

On a large field, it will take some time once harvesting is complete to water and fertilize every plant, and so many with higher stats will die before the harvester reaches them. Which is not great.

 

[targetingyou78]

That's somewhat true, but tends to break in practice. If you turn off your harvester to breed/expand your field, (which is necessary, unless you also want to run a massive and separate nursery), when you turn it on it will harvest plants sequentially over the field.

On a large field, it will take some time once harvesting is complete to water and fertilize every plant, and so many with higher stats will die before the harvester reaches them. Which is not great.

Yeah it's true if you want to max out on plants you need a swamp biome and have a floating plot hundreds of blocks in the sky but I have gotten along just fine on my ground level swampland and have not had to use hydration or fertilizer once. Its not much work to get a farm that is usable up and running.

Bees are a lot more systematic and for large scale industrial setups I would suggest bees. That Bee'ing said, there are recipes that are specific to plants or combs. For instance, the Aurelia leaf can change magnetite into 4 purified gold. There is no comb equivalent.

 

[asb3pe]

I was motivated to learn crops yesterday. I watched a few tutorials, then I planted 4 wheats in crops, waited until they matured (actually I went and played another game, then came back an hour later LOL), then I dropped double-crops in between them. Ten minutes later, I decided "this isn't worth it, this sucks" so I removed the double crops, and that was that. Those 4 wheats are still in my 9x9 tilled field all by their lonesome. Not sure when they'll ever get any friends to play with. LOL I ain't gonna sit there and twiddle my thumbs all day long just so I can pick weeds out. Yeah I know about WeedX now, but meh. Watching paint dry is not my idea of fun. LOL

 

[targetingyou78]

I was motivated to learn crops yesterday. I watched a few tutorials, then I planted 4 wheats in crops, waited until they matured (actually I went and played another game, then came back an hour later LOL), then I dropped double-crops in between them. Ten minutes later, I decided "this isn't worth it, this sucks" so I removed the double crops, and that was that. Those 4 wheats are still in my 9x9 tilled field all by their lonesome. Not sure when they'll ever get any friends to play with. LOL

If you do ever and up breeding crops. Don't waste your time with wheat. Start by crossbreeding Netherwart and Sugarcane. That can get you almost all the crops.