Can you get a bit more specific
?The new version of gregtech (which isnt in the pack yet) has some new nice oil features so just wait a bit.
Gregtech adds the ic2 biogas for the distilation tower so you can make it fast and in large quantities.
[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]
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?Can you get a bit more specific
No I can't
edit: Or well...
Its a project on which Me, Pyure and BloodAsp are working on. This project I would like to have finished for the 3.2 release (along with one more thing regarding the modpack promotion as a whole - getting Listed (which hopefully will all happen in same time))
i think its just a missunderstanding.
Forestry produces biomass which turns into ethanol which indeed cant be used in a gas turbine, you use it in the diesel engine
And apparently you can use ic2 Biogas (many processing steps) in gas turbines. Gonna see if i can get the entire list of possible fuels from the config.
Biogas would be really interesting if you could produce it faster, cant say that i've ever seen the destillation tower thought. Sounds like something i should check up.
Edit
From the config files
fuel_0 {
I:cellEthanol_128=128
I:cellFuel_128=128
I:cellNitroFuel_384=384
}
fuel_1 {
I:cellHydrogen_15=15
I:cellMethane_45=45
I:ic2.itemCellBiogas_32=32
Fuel_0 is for diesel generator and Fuel_1 is for gas turbine. Numbers should be thousand EU for 1 bucket of fuel. Methane and biogas both look really good. Not sure im that excited to go for the ethanol route thought.
Forestry produces biomass which turns into ethanol which indeed cant be used in a gas turbine, you use it in the diesel engine
And apparently you can use ic2 Biogas (many processing steps) in gas turbines. Gonna see if i can get the entire list of possible fuels from the config.
Biogas would be really interesting if you could produce it faster, cant say that i've ever seen the destillation tower thought. Sounds like something i should check up.
Edit
From the config files
fuel_0 {
I:cellEthanol_128=128
I:cellFuel_128=128
I:cellNitroFuel_384=384
}
fuel_1 {
I:cellHydrogen_15=15
I:cellMethane_45=45
I:ic2.itemCellBiogas_32=32
Fuel_0 is for diesel generator and Fuel_1 is for gas turbine. Numbers should be thousand EU for 1 bucket of fuel. Methane and biogas both look really good. Not sure im that excited to go for the ethanol route thought.
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Looked into the numbers a bit, biogas seem to require the distilation tower which is a quite expensive HV multiblock but has very interesting stats. one distillery tower produces 8 buckets of biogas in 7 seconds and taking 512 eu/tick to run. This adds upp to a net of 256000-7*512*20=184320 eu/250 mb of biomass. Or a net gain of 1316 eu/tick (ofc we also have to consider the efficiency of the turbine 90%,80% or 70% if HV tier)
so one biochaff (8 potato, 8 carrot, plantball, 1 leaves) produces 1000 mb of biomass in a fluid canning machine. This means you can produce around 737280 EU from 8 potatoes minus the cost for the macerator and canning machine. That is an extraordinary amount. this at a rate of 8 potatoes every 28 seconds which tbh is not that much.
8 potatoes (or one leaves) every 28 seconds for a net gain of 737280 EU (times efficiency) with a power output of roughly 1316 eu/tick (times efficiency) is insanely good. I would say its a good alternative to going nuclear. Hell the numbers sugests its even better than nuclear as it is easily automatable and don't pose the same risk while being comparable if not better in output.
Methanol is not quite so interesting. the method would probably be to use a LV gas turbine (powered by methanol) and a transformer to ULV to run 4 centrifuges. The recepie consumes on paper 20k eu (more since lower efficiency of turbine) for each bucket of methanol it produces and uses 13,9 potatoes to do so. So using LV gas turbines this should net about 45*0.9-20=20,5k eu at an output of about 5,2 eu/tick per centrifuge (or 13,2 eu/tick if you power the centrifuges by other means than the methanol). so each gas turbine+4x centrifuges has a net gain of about 20,8 eu/tick and consumes one potatoe every 3,5 seconds. I would say it is a viable early game power producer thought instead of using steam. Or you could use steam to produce methanol to increase the power density of the steam while increasing the net value by adding biomass
1 bucket of biomass for 40.5-31.5k EU storage rather than
1 bucket of steam for 400-600 eu storage
so one biochaff (8 potato, 8 carrot, plantball, 1 leaves) produces 1000 mb of biomass in a fluid canning machine. This means you can produce around 737280 EU from 8 potatoes minus the cost for the macerator and canning machine. That is an extraordinary amount. this at a rate of 8 potatoes every 28 seconds which tbh is not that much.
8 potatoes (or one leaves) every 28 seconds for a net gain of 737280 EU (times efficiency) with a power output of roughly 1316 eu/tick (times efficiency) is insanely good. I would say its a good alternative to going nuclear. Hell the numbers sugests its even better than nuclear as it is easily automatable and don't pose the same risk while being comparable if not better in output.
Methanol is not quite so interesting. the method would probably be to use a LV gas turbine (powered by methanol) and a transformer to ULV to run 4 centrifuges. The recepie consumes on paper 20k eu (more since lower efficiency of turbine) for each bucket of methanol it produces and uses 13,9 potatoes to do so. So using LV gas turbines this should net about 45*0.9-20=20,5k eu at an output of about 5,2 eu/tick per centrifuge (or 13,2 eu/tick if you power the centrifuges by other means than the methanol). so each gas turbine+4x centrifuges has a net gain of about 20,8 eu/tick and consumes one potatoe every 3,5 seconds. I would say it is a viable early game power producer thought instead of using steam. Or you could use steam to produce methanol to increase the power density of the steam while increasing the net value by adding biomass
1 bucket of biomass for 40.5-31.5k EU storage rather than
1 bucket of steam for 400-600 eu storage
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I don't know of anyone who's actually done this process too, which gives it extra pimp-factor. The distillation tower is absurdly buff for fuel, I'm not surprised if its also awesome for biofuel.
Wow, you can use oil in the distillery tower aswell :O
Just on the raw numbers that using the oil as best you can one bucket of oil should produce 750 mb of gasoline, 312,5 mb of nitro diesel (250 mb gasoline+62,5 mb glyceryl trinitrate)+937,5 mb of methanol aswell as 1 bucket of sulfuric acid and 250 mb of lubricant... and this in 15,625 seconds
thats something like 0,75*128000+0,3125*384000+0,937,5*45000=258187,5 eu/bucket of oil or 826,2 eu/tick. pretty good as well
Just on the raw numbers that using the oil as best you can one bucket of oil should produce 750 mb of gasoline, 312,5 mb of nitro diesel (250 mb gasoline+62,5 mb glyceryl trinitrate)+937,5 mb of methanol aswell as 1 bucket of sulfuric acid and 250 mb of lubricant... and this in 15,625 seconds
thats something like 0,75*128000+0,3125*384000+0,937,5*45000=258187,5 eu/bucket of oil or 826,2 eu/tick. pretty good as well
I have to say that I think there might need to be a bit of a rebalance here. Both in plausibility terms, and in game balance terms. How on earth is a moderate sized potato farm better in power output than a dedicated oil refinery?
Then there is the finite nature of oil, needing to explore to find deposits, and the difficulty of getting the fluid back to base. Compare this with one potato plus some golems...
I mean, lop a zero off the potato power production figure and everything seems much more reasonable.
I think the potato thing needs to be tested (by someone) before there's a general panic. Any volunteers?
It sort of requires the Distillation Tower to get these numbers though right? The Distillation Tower is at least HV era gear. Might even be EV.
Also I looked at the recipes for biomass in NEI on the server. I'm not seeing any way to generate IC2 biomass, although it does show up in NEI. The only biomass with recipes for creation in NEI are just Forestry biomass from a fermenter and then GT biomass, which appears to be just a dictionary translation of Forestry Biomass.
Needs more digging before swinging the nerf bat because it may not even be possible.
I don't usually buy into one-time investment as a major balancing factor. I'd still be curious how the numbers play out for real.
Guys bear in mind there's the two systems here: IC2 and Forestry. They don't actually cross-over at all. You can't mix and match the two in any way unless Jason/Blood made some tweaks I don't know about.
So once you have IC2 "biomass" (the middle-stage), you can't convert that into Forestry ethanol by any means I know of.
Oh, distillation tower being HV/EV just means I can't test it as I'm not there yet, not a balancing factor
And what I'm saying, based on NEI, is that you may not even be able to create IC2 biomass on 3.1.9. Maybe it's just missing from NEI because it uses the IC2 Canning Machine and the recipes for that IC2 unit are broken in NEI?
I tried Forestry biomass in IT2 2.x Even with "perfect" tree species traits, it wasn't that great, and I only ended up using it when I was too lazy to go pump oil wells. Once I got enough bedrockium drums and good fly mode, pumping oil wells wasn't much of a hassle anymore so I just did that. I've never tried IC2 biomass before.
If I ever wrap up my pollution mechanic, I'll be pushing to re-awesomeify forestry biofuel for its era.
strange how the non renewable power source is worse than the renewable one ...
IC2 always had some recipe not in NEI and ic2biomass is one of them
You can make it with 1 biochaff in a fluid/solid canning machine with water
That would make the biogas so useless that NOBODY would use it anymore.
You can only make the distilation tower in hv and 138eu/t then isn't worth it
Well then you wont like fusion
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For fusion, resource investment isn't the only factor. There's logistical issues and constant resource acquisition and production involved.Well then you wont like fusion
Single investment balancing at the extreme lame end would be more like "Ultimate Solar Panels", where it takes a huge amount of resources to produce, but once you produce one, you just drop it down somewhere and never think about it again. It takes up virtually no space, as no configuration you need to tweak. There are no logistical concerns with respect to input, output, timing, signalling, or anything else interesting. The best I can say for it is that if its a daytime-only machine, you have to consider buffering the output in a battery. And who cares.
Testing it right now, so far ive created biochaff within 28 seconds with a LV macerator, costed 891 eu for 1 biochaf, i then made it into 1 bucket of biomass from 1 bucket of water and 1 chaff, also within 28 seconds and 768 eu.
Then i built the distillation tower, setup looks like this
http://prntscr.com/8iy6t3
From left to right, LV macerator, distillation tower. I ran it with 8 potatoes which produces 1 bio chaff, which turned into 1 bucket of biomass. The bucket of biomass was run without issues in the distillation tower consuming
313653 eu or 78408,75 eu/250 mb to produce 32000 mb of biogas, 500 ml of water, 4 fertilizer and strangely enough 6 small piles of wood pulp. Didn't time it but seemed to be around 28 seconds
http://prntscr.com/8iy7qg
Then running the biogas in a LV diesel generator i filled 9 lithium batteries to 89504 or 805536 total eu (this took ages, should have used HV) This means the total heating value of the gas should be 805536/0,9=895040 eu
http://prntscr.com/8iy9v7
http://prntscr.com/8iylwt
Net gain of the setup is 895040-313653-891-768=579723 eu/28 sec or 1035 eu/tick worth of fuel excluding cable losses
The easiest way to set up this would be a turbo gas turbine for the distillation tower (this would consume 78408,75/0,7=112012,5 EU) and a basic gas turbine to run the fluid/solid canning machine and LV macerator. Once you get it started on energy it would run self sufficient after you have processed your first 8 potatoes with a net energy output of 895040-4*112012,5-891/0,9-768/0,9=445117 eu/28 seconds or 795 eu/tick worth of fuel excluding cable losses.
Broken is the word i would use
Then i built the distillation tower, setup looks like this
http://prntscr.com/8iy6t3
From left to right, LV macerator, distillation tower. I ran it with 8 potatoes which produces 1 bio chaff, which turned into 1 bucket of biomass. The bucket of biomass was run without issues in the distillation tower consuming
313653 eu or 78408,75 eu/250 mb to produce 32000 mb of biogas, 500 ml of water, 4 fertilizer and strangely enough 6 small piles of wood pulp. Didn't time it but seemed to be around 28 seconds
http://prntscr.com/8iy7qg
Then running the biogas in a LV diesel generator i filled 9 lithium batteries to 89504 or 805536 total eu (this took ages, should have used HV) This means the total heating value of the gas should be 805536/0,9=895040 eu
http://prntscr.com/8iy9v7
http://prntscr.com/8iylwt
Net gain of the setup is 895040-313653-891-768=579723 eu/28 sec or 1035 eu/tick worth of fuel excluding cable losses
The easiest way to set up this would be a turbo gas turbine for the distillation tower (this would consume 78408,75/0,7=112012,5 EU) and a basic gas turbine to run the fluid/solid canning machine and LV macerator. Once you get it started on energy it would run self sufficient after you have processed your first 8 potatoes with a net energy output of 895040-4*112012,5-891/0,9-768/0,9=445117 eu/28 seconds or 795 eu/tick worth of fuel excluding cable losses.
Broken is the word i would use
We always knew it would be a bit weird trying to translate the IC2 biomass into GT "gas"
Nice math Joel
Nice math Joel
The power output of the machine is actually okay, for it to be viable for an energy source that requires such an expensive multiblock i would say 500-1500 eu/tick is required to make it worthwhile and on par with other power sources of the same tier, Nuclear or oil. The thing i think is broken is the amount of biogas is produced from the amount of potato(or whatever you are making biochaff from). Let's say make it consume a whole stack of potato for 1 biochaff and i think its somewhat more balanced. You would need a very large farm to produce 1 stack of whatever you are using to make biochaff every 28 seconds and it would make it a lot harder to just make more distillation towers for the higher power tiers as the farming areas would have to be HUGE. I kinda like the thoought of having endless potato fields surrounding a high tech sustainable base on biofuel
The power output of the machine is actually okay, for it to be viable for an energy source that requires such an expensive multiblock i would say 500-1500 eu/tick is required to make it worthwhile and on par with other power sources of the same tier, Nuclear or oil. The thing i think is broken is the amount of biogas is produced from the amount of potato(or whatever you are making biochaff from). Let's say make it consume a whole stack of potato for 1 biochaff and i think its somewhat more balanced. You would need a very large farm to produce 1 stack of whatever you are using to make biochaff every 28 seconds and it would make it a lot harder to just make more distillation towers for the higher power tiers as the farming areas would have to be HUGE. I kinda like the thoought of having endless potato fields surrounding a high tech sustainable base on biofuel
We can't tweak that part (how much biomass you get per potato).
Its not balanced well with GT, true, but it IS balanced properly with a full IC2 biofuel chain. I agree its a bit silly to produce that much biomass but in the context of IC2 it makes more sense.
And here I was thinking of powering my HV era machines off of energized nodes I may still to some extent, but this seems worth considering too. I'm powering one string of LV machines off a node. All my other LV machines and my EBF run off a RC turbine. My first few MV machines are running off of gasoline as I was too lazy to set up the infrastructure to do nitro-diesel and it's only temporary I think.
Steam is just so simple, easy, and cheap though. I've got a max size steel RC tank for steam. A 36LP liquid boiler can currently keep that tank full during all but the highest demand scenarios for my current infrastructure. I produce wood (TC golems and 2x2 firs), charcoal (42 coke ovens), and alumentum faster than I can use it. I could easily build a large bronze boiler right now to supplement my RC boiler during peak times and run it off alumentum and that would get me by until I'd be able to afford a titanium or tungsten boiler.
With all that it's rather easy to power 2 RC turbines that face into MFSUs and then charge IC2 batteries as a buffer for machines through HV phase and it all requires almost zero interaction to maintain other than the very occasional replacement of the RC turbine blades. Past HV you usually need to start looking at other things than the standard 3 tiers of GT turbines anyway.
I may still to some extent, but this seems worth considering too. I'm powering one string of LV machines off a node. All my other LV machines and my EBF run off a RC turbine. My first few MV machines are running off of gasoline as I was too lazy to set up the infrastructure to do nitro-diesel and it's only temporary I think. Steam is just so simple, easy, and cheap though. I've got a max size steel RC tank for steam. A 36LP liquid boiler can currently keep that tank full during all but the highest demand scenarios for my current infrastructure. I produce wood (TC golems and 2x2 firs), charcoal (42 coke ovens), and alumentum faster than I can use it. I could easily build a large bronze boiler right now to supplement my RC boiler during peak times and run it off alumentum and that would get me by until I'd be able to afford a titanium or tungsten boiler.
With all that it's rather easy to power 2 RC turbines that face into MFSUs and then charge IC2 batteries as a buffer for machines through HV phase and it all requires almost zero interaction to maintain other than the very occasional replacement of the RC turbine blades. Past HV you usually need to start looking at other things than the standard 3 tiers of GT turbines anyway.