The last couple worlds I played, I never built any GT steam turbines at all. Just hoarded a massive pile of steel and went straight to RC.
Yes its literally hundreds of steel (especially since you have no plate-bending machine), but its worth it.
[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]
- Thread starter Jason McRay
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Yes its literally hundreds of steel (especially since you have no plate-bending machine), but its worth it.
So which is the better option for a long run? Run your steam the whole way and generate power at the end, or generate your power at your steam and run the power to the end? If you run the steam line, you need massive GT pipe sizes with massive material costs... but if you run the power the whole way, you're losing EU with every block due to power cable losses. I'm thinking I shouldn't worry about the cable EU loss and just put battery buffer boxes at key locations to "reboost" the EU back up to full. 16 lengths of Huge Steel Fluid Pipe is 16*12=3 stacks of steel... it's not ridiculous I guess but it is a large quantity. However, it also leaves me no room for expansion, that single Huge Fluid Pipe will only run one turbine, to add another turbine means I need to add another run of pipe. Ugh.
How badly do they need to be far apart? at this stage of the game, you just want your producers and consumers relatively close together for as long as possible.
If you add more shutters to your pipes, that should help a lot. Make sure you're using the screwdriver to direct the flow properly.
Consider adding an intermediary buffer (tank) closer to your consumers so you can monitor flow more easily. Your pipes would go into that buffer, and then another pipe would pull out of that buffer into your steam turbines.
Personally if you need to transmit power that far, I'd go with the cable losses instead. especially if you can use the upgraded copper cables, whatever they're called that do 1 eu/m loss.
I like to have my machines at my front door since all my chests with materials are up there. But I put the steam tank at the back of my base so it wasn't in the way. I really had no idea piping stuff was gonna be so much trouble and have so much cost. Live and learn I guess, that's why I said "one chunk build". Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. LOL
I'm complaining, but I'm also happy, because we don't have these kind of problems in other modpacks - I'd just grab my EnderIO conduit and be done with it. While that's easy, there's also no challenge in it. This is a challenge I need to solve because right now I have no blast furnace and that's not a good thing at all.
I'm complaining, but I'm also happy, because we don't have these kind of problems in other modpacks - I'd just grab my EnderIO conduit and be done with it. While that's easy, there's also no challenge in it. This is a challenge I need to solve because right now I have no blast furnace and that's not a good thing at all.
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You're at the stage of the game where I have my steam producers and such smack dab in the middle of my "living room" as it were. Its ugly and noise and annoying, but its a period you have to transition through.
The largest GT fluid pipe in the game (Huge Tungstensteel) has a capacity of 48K L/sec... and my single MV Steam Turbine uses 10K L/sec.
When we get to HV, 512 EU/t, the Steam Turbine uses 5 L of steam per EU... so that's 2560 L/t or 51,200 L/sec. So even a Huge Tungstensteel pipe can't provide enough steam to one HV Steam Turbine.
Is this correct, and what does it mean for us? If the largest pipe in the game can't supply enough steam to the largest turbine, that means the idea of "single pipe supply" is not the way to go, and instead we need a network of supply pipes with shutters and all that stuff?
I just realized you can attach the GT Steam Turbine directly to the RC tank valve - which at least eliminates one part of the equation - no need to deal with steam sloshing around inside huge fluid pipes and configure shutters and all that stuff... So now I'll just have to deal with power loss via cables, and the best way to do that is move my EBF as close to the turbine as I can. As Pyure said... 'Ugly and functional' >>>> 'looks nice but doesn't work'. haha
When we get to HV, 512 EU/t, the Steam Turbine uses 5 L of steam per EU... so that's 2560 L/t or 51,200 L/sec. So even a Huge Tungstensteel pipe can't provide enough steam to one HV Steam Turbine.
Is this correct, and what does it mean for us? If the largest pipe in the game can't supply enough steam to the largest turbine, that means the idea of "single pipe supply" is not the way to go, and instead we need a network of supply pipes with shutters and all that stuff?
I just realized you can attach the GT Steam Turbine directly to the RC tank valve - which at least eliminates one part of the equation - no need to deal with steam sloshing around inside huge fluid pipes and configure shutters and all that stuff... So now I'll just have to deal with power loss via cables, and the best way to do that is move my EBF as close to the turbine as I can. As Pyure said... 'Ugly and functional' >>>> 'looks nice but doesn't work'. haha
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Question, why would you ever use an HV Turbine? At that point you'd just use a Large Turbine multiblock instead, no?
The problem with your question really is everyone knows HV turbines are kinda dumb and nobody in the history of gregtech has ever built one (exaggeration). If you don't like the Large Turbine, its still much better to just build 3 RC turbines (200*3=600 eu/t) which consume 320*3 = 960mb/t steam total. That discrepancy in steam/eu efficiency should tell you right away why.
I just realized that all the "Huge" varieties of GT fluid pipes must be made with an MV Extruder... which means that some someone like myself, who is still in the LV era, the largest fluid pipe we can utilize is the Large Bronze Fluid Pipe with a capacity of 4800 L/sec.
Each LV Steam Turbine uses 3 L per EU, so that's 96 L/t or 1920 L/sec per turbine... and you'll need 5 LV turbines to get the EBF up and running for the first time... so this means we need a total steam supply of 1920*5 = 9600 L/sec. This can be provided by 2 runs of Large Bronze pipe, and then use Regular Bronze Fluid Pipe (2400 L/sec) to feed into each LV turbine.
I think I'm finally starting to understand, and figure I might as well post this for anyone else who ever has trouble "doing the math" on this stuff.
Each LV Steam Turbine uses 3 L per EU, so that's 96 L/t or 1920 L/sec per turbine... and you'll need 5 LV turbines to get the EBF up and running for the first time... so this means we need a total steam supply of 1920*5 = 9600 L/sec. This can be provided by 2 runs of Large Bronze pipe, and then use Regular Bronze Fluid Pipe (2400 L/sec) to feed into each LV turbine.
I think I'm finally starting to understand, and figure I might as well post this for anyone else who ever has trouble "doing the math" on this stuff.
I've never even gotten into MV era in a GT modpack, so I had no idea that "nobody has ever built an HV turbine". I thought the natural progression was LV to MV to HV. What do I know? Nothing! Well, this is how we learn, so now I know.
It should be LV to MV to HV but in gregtech the generators have worse efficency with higher voltage -> useless
In theory, we're supposed to appreciate that we use less floor space, and incur less connection-cost. (Every machine that outputs power taxes that power, so 1 HV machine taxes less than 16 LV machines)
In practice, it just drives people nuts.
One of the biggest lessons I got from the GregTech Survival Guide when I first read it is that if with GregTech, if you don't plan ahead and think everything you do through you will be punished. Maybe harshly (exploding machines) or maybe just inconvenienced (sloshing steam over long distance pipes or power drop), but it'll happen.
It's almost always better to strive for a 1 or 2 chunk build with GT. Multiblock structures should never be built over chunk borders. If you have your steam tank in one chunk and machines in another and you walk too far in one direction one may work and the other may not. Even worse if your water supply is in another chunk from your boilers...
I almost always strive to attach my boilers and turbines directly to my RC tank. Right now I've got max size steel RC tank (9x9x8z). On one side I have a 36LP RC liquid boiler consuming creosote with a Large Bronze Boiler right next to it. Both boilers output directly into RC tank valves. All my steam generation in one spot in the same chunk as my RC tank, with water source and creosote source also in the same chunk. My tree farm and coke ovens are also in this same chunk. My RC steam turbine is connected directly to the RC steam tank also on the bottom (eventually I'll have more) and this outputs power to the machines that are directly below the steam tank in two floors that are each 1 chunk in size, and also consequently in the same chunk as my boilers and tank. Everything is close and compact and I've got noise mufflers about to deaden the sound.
I've also got a string of MV machines in another room that's in a separate chunk from the rest. But this all runs off of refined oil fuel. My oil refinery, fuel tank, and MV machines are all in the same chunk. I'm keeping these separate from the rest of my machines because I generally only build about 6 MV machines and don't want to use floor space in my primary factory to support these as I make the transition to HV. Once I start making HV equipment I'll have added 2 more RC turbines for a total of 3. I'll be outputting to MFSUs to store power and then transmit to my HV machines which will go where my LV machines are now. By then I'll be able to make enough Magical Energy Absorbers to power these LV machines else where from energized TC nodes and I'll use them for automation where speed isn't important.
All of this design consideration is based upon mistakes I made, and lots of them, the first time I played GT. And I'm sure my setup can be improved significantly if I thought about it more.
I would say that in my pipe use, I haven't been able to get by with just the pipe that should have the capacity to get the job done, there always needs to be a safety factor. This might be to do with sloshing, and shutters could prevent it, but I haven't tried those.
My initial power train was an array of LV turbines. I have 4 LV turbines feeding into an MV transformer to generate MV. Each LV turbine is fed by 7 high pressure steam boilers (the 1 block gregtech one with the high efficiency). The 7 boilers are connected to their parent turbine by a normal-sized steel fluid pipe. I found that a bronze pipe would not get the steam there on time.
My initial power train was an array of LV turbines. I have 4 LV turbines feeding into an MV transformer to generate MV. Each LV turbine is fed by 7 high pressure steam boilers (the 1 block gregtech one with the high efficiency). The 7 boilers are connected to their parent turbine by a normal-sized steel fluid pipe. I found that a bronze pipe would not get the steam there on time.
Understood, and noted. I'd just like to point out this is precisely why I'm so big on having chunk loaders. I typically do a 3x3 chunk base layout, which isn't very inconsiderate for servers, to only have 9 chunks loaded. But yes, it is VERY important to always have your base chunks loaded like this, with a chunk loader... otherwise you are leaving your fate up to the vanilla game mechanics which are fraught with peril, as you accurately pointed out.
Unfortunately, like everything else in this modpack, chunk loaders are not available right from the beginning, you must work your way up to them. While I understand, from a "challenge" perspective... I still believe chunk-loading is too important in a technical modpack like this one and thus it should be available from the beginning.
My current base is a 3x3 chunk tower, stretching from y level 6 to y=150, with 6 high gaps between floors. The whole thing is kept chunkloaded by a full barrel of ender pearls being hoppered into a chunkloader. The barrel gives me a 6 month safety window in case I forget to refill the chunkloader.
excellent, thanks for feedback. yeah, i suddenly realized my bronze pipe wasn't cutting it any longer... i never quite understood Chloe's video until today, but now it all makes sense. LOL
Well 6 months is a long time, but if you suddenly were to keel over, it still might not be long enough.
And let's have a little discussion on chunk loaders - I recently discovered (in Jason McRay's own video) that there is "Dimensional Anchors" in this pack, to go along with the Railcraft ones that require the enderpearls to operate. It seems to me there's no fuel cost for the Dim Anchors, but perhaps someone can give us the scoop on these devices. Which one should we use?
Well 6 months is a long time, but if you suddenly were to keel over, it still might not be long enough.
And let's have a little discussion on chunk loaders - I recently discovered (in Jason McRay's own video) that there is "Dimensional Anchors" in this pack, to go along with the Railcraft ones that require the enderpearls to operate. It seems to me there's no fuel cost for the Dim Anchors, but perhaps someone can give us the scoop on these devices. Which one should we use?
Hehe had this discussion not so long ago. To be honest, once I need to worry about it, I'll cheat in a chunkloader and fix the config so that it doesn't require fuel.
Since I'm in SSP, I really don't need to worry like server owners might, and I don't think that walking a certain distance away from your base should make your machines stop working.