[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]

[Pyure]

Because this test system involved using a mfsu for the dynamo to output (maybe this is a bug? seeing as how i couldnt get it to work any other way)

Aren't you just testing if you're getting power? If so you don't need to move the power out of the mfsu.

With regards to the turbine mucking around, im gonna step down to the large blade, from the huge one .
I dont think a tungstensteel boiler can keep up with a huge blade, which is weird because it says 32000L/s - but thats the only thing that would cause the turbine to stall out like that, unless its just plain broken.
Edit; yeah, that fixed it ... maybe huge turbine blades need more than one boiler?

Oh ok you're testing with an actual boiler.

What I did was find a rotor that required 800 mb/s (which was easy, most of the titanium-level rotors need 800 mb/s) and supply steam with ender io fluid conduits, which happen to have a carry-capacity of 800 mb/s (200mb extraction rate). I then attached those conduits to a bunch of steam drums so that I could determine exactly how much steam I was using to get exactly how much power.

This test is a bit wonky of course because of the spinup time of the turbine. But no matter what I did, I found I kept losing rotors after very short while.

That reminds me, @Blood Asp, if you haven't already, the turbines should also have spin-down time after it stops receiving steam. Laws of physics and all that, but also it appeals to my sense of balance

That said I gotta move on to some other testing, I can't spend any more time with these right now until they work a bit better.

 

[Ieldra]

How many ebfs has everyone running? I found the ebf is a rather annoying bottleneck. Not so much for steel, where making wrought iron first significantly boosts efficiency, but for almost everything else. With some materials, 300 seconds plus for a single ingot? That appears rather extreme...

Also, I've been experimenting with Big Reactors setups using the online BR simulator. It seems like the most efficient smaller design is simply to fill a 3x3 area with fuel rods, make a reactor casing around it and regulate it down to 25% (75% fuel rod insertion) in order to get the 2000 mB/t of steam you need for a maximum-size turbine. As opposed to passive reactors, the water appears to have such a significant cooling effect that the effect of adding coolant is almost negligible until you get to the really big designs, and in some cases it's even detrimental to efficiency. Which kind of reactor design has everyone been using, if any?

 

[Pyure]

How many ebfs has everyone running? I found the ebf is a rather annoying bottleneck. Not so much for steel, where making wrought iron first significantly boosts efficiency, but for almost everything else. With some materials, 300 seconds plus for a single ingot? That appears rather extreme...

I tend to run with 1 for way too long, and then eventually end up with around three or four.

Fortunately those super-long recipes are often high-voltage recipes, so you can slash the durations down considerably (the 300 seconds assumes LV I believe). The key thing is to always have the damn things running, and be sure to cook stuff in advance BEFORE you need it. Which is why I'm cooking stainless steel right now. No idea what I'll use it for just yet.

Also, I've been experimenting with Big Reactors setups using the online BR simulator. It seems like the most efficient smaller design is simply to fill a 3x3 area with fuel rods, make a reactor casing around it and regulate it down to 25% (75% fuel rod insertion) in order to get the 2000 mB/t of steam you need for a maximum-size turbine. As opposed to passive reactors, the water appears to have such a significant cooling effect that adding coolant is almost negligible until you get to the really big designs, and in some cases it's even detrimental to efficiency. Which kind of reactor design has everyone been using, if any?

I often overkill because I can't make myself build a reeactor with < 50,000 efficiency. Usually something like http://br.sidoh.org/#reactor-design...G3O3G5X6GXGXGX6G5X6GXGXGX6G5X3G3O5G6O5G6O5G3O

Hey, they updated the simulator, love the new slider +/- and optimization buttons.

That reactor is running at lower efficiency to power one turbine, with the irony being that while its optimal for two turbines, I have no idea how I'd manage to convert that much power to EU without tearing out my hair (a really really good thing considering how buff these things are.)

Can you post a link to yours? I strongly suspect I'll try to go more in your direction this time around.

(edit: guessing http://br.sidoh.org/#reactor-design...ut=3O3G6O3G6O3G3O3G3X6G3X6G3X3G3O3G6O3G6O3G3O , in which case I'd definitely abandon my small extra efficiency for the massively better resource cost)

 

[Ieldra]

I tend to run with 1 for way too long, and then eventually end up with around three or four.
Fortunately those super-long recipes are often high-voltage recipes, so you can slash the durations down considerably (the 300 seconds assumes LV I believe). The key thing is to always have the damn things running, and be sure to cook stuff in advance BEFORE you need it. Which is why I'm cooking stainless steel right now. No idea what I'll use it for just yet.

The 300s assume the lowest voltage that a recipe requires to run, which is MV in the relevant cases I've encountered. The recipes did take that long. As for having it running all the time, what I'm doing is having it running all the time while I'm not actively playing as well, at least some of the time. The silicon ingots for my ME network were particularly bad because the new recipes require so many of them. One ME interface equals 12 minutes on an MV EBF for the silicon alone, and another 15 or so minutes for the aluminium - and you know how many of those you'll need for an efficient autocrafting setup, with GT even more so. To say nothing of Enderium....

I often overkill because I can't make myself build a reactor with < 50,000 efficiency.

The first design you posted is one I tend to use in passive reactors, only with a different coolant. As for the second, I wasn't joking when I said cooling appears to have almost no effect. Compare this one to your second design:
http://br.sidoh.org/#reactor-design...rolRodInsertion=72&layout=9X&modpack=defaults
The actual difference in fuel use is 0.005 mB/t at default settings.... and the total efficiency difference in mB/mB is less than between your two designs. Since the real bottleneck is in conversion anyway, I think one can afford that.

 

[Pyure]

The 300s assume the lowest voltage that a recipe requires to run, which is MV in the relevant cases I've encountered. The recipes did take that long. As for having it running all the time, what I'm doing is having it running all the time while I'm not actively playing as well, at least some of the time. The silicon ingots for my ME network were particularly bad because the new recipes require so many of them. One ME interface equals 12 minutes on an EBF, and you know how many of those you'll need for an efficient autocrafting setup, with GT even more so. To say nothing of Enderium....


The first design you posted is one I tend to use in passive reactors, only with a different coolant. As for the second, I wasn't joking when I said cooling appears to have almost no effect. Compare this one to your second design:
http://br.sidoh.org/#reactor-design...rolRodInsertion=72&layout=9X&modpack=defaults
The actual difference in fuel use is 0.005 mB/t at default settings.... and the total efficiency difference in mB/mB is less than between your two designs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be fair, the version with coolant has a much better optimal efficiency. Yours tops at 40.9k whereas mine tops at 52k. In that sense the coolant has a huge benefit. Obviously we aren't talking about running them at peak efficiency, but I just wanted to clarify that.

I just turned off my silicon production recently. I'm up to three stacks of silicon ingots, so I probably play minecraft too much (I never let the game run by itself btw). I decided it was time to crank out some stainless instead.

Maybe I have an advantage over you in that I don't waste EBFs on steel. The wrought-iron ebf recipe is excellent, but I still stick with my thaumcraft/ordo setup for now, which frees up the EBF to hoard things I know I'll need soon.

 

[Ieldra]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be fair, the version with coolant has a much better optimal efficiency. Yours tops at 40.9k whereas mine tops at 52k. In that sense the coolant has a huge benefit. Obviously we aren't talking about running them at peak efficiency, but I just wanted to clarify that.

True. I'd eventually upgrade the design, but since so much stuff goes into the turbines I'm glad I can keep the reactor small at first.

I just turned off my silicon production recently. I'm up to three stacks of silicon ingots, so I probably play minecraft too much (I never let the game run by itself btw). I decided it was time to crank out some stainless instead.

Maybe I have an advantage over you in that I don't waste EBFs on steel. The wrought-iron ebf recipe is excellent, but I still stick with my thaumcraft/ordo setup for now, which frees up the EBF to hoard things I know I'll need soon.

Steel production is insignificant in its demands. I don't need that much of it in the first place unless it's for big projects like the reactor, and it's fast. As for where the time went until now: logic processors. Each one requires a silicon plate, one annihilation/formation core requires four processors, one ME interface requires two of those and one 64k storage cell requires...hmmm...I think it was 80 (as compared to the 27 of original AE2) - not that I need that size as yet, but the time will come. You can see how things add up.

 

[Pyure]

True. I'd eventually upgrade the design, but since so much stuff goes into the turbines I'm glad I can keep the reactor small at first.


Steel production is insignificant in its demands. I don't need that much of it in the first place unless it's for big projects like the reactor, and it's fast. As for where the time went until now: logic processors. Each one requires a silicon plate, one annihilation/formation core requires four processors, one ME interface requires two of those and one 64k storage cell requires...hmmm...I think it was 80 (as compared to the 27 of original AE2) - not that I need that size as yet, but the time will come. You can see how things add up.

Yessir. I did all this in my last world a few months ago, although I didn't really consider it a big problem.

I was running two HV ebfs and one MV version fwiw.

 

[Pyure]

Can anyone remind me which BR Turbine blocks require Cyanite and how much per?

I'm at work but trying to decide if I can build a small turbine at this time.

I have ~840 Yellorite Ore in my stockpile currently. That probably translates to around 84 cyanite, assuming we get 5% cyanite per ore, doubled as per http://wiki.enderio.com/Dark_Steel_Ball

 

[Tyriael_Soban]

Oh ok you're testing with an actual boiler.

What I did was find a rotor that required 800 mb/s (which was easy, most of the titanium-level rotors need 800 mb/s) and supply steam with ender io fluid conduits, which happen to have a carry-capacity of 800 mb/s (200mb extraction rate). I then attached those conduits to a bunch of steam drums so that I could determine exactly how much steam I was using to get exactly how much power.

This test is a bit wonky of course because of the spinup time of the turbine. But no matter what I did, I found I kept losing rotors after very short while.

That reminds me, @Blood Asp, if you haven't already, the turbines should also have spin-down time after it stops receiving steam. Laws of physics and all that, but also it appeals to my sense of balance

That said I gotta move on to some other testing, I can't spend any more time with these right now until they work a bit better.

I didnt seem to have that problem with turbines, i kept the boiler and the turbine running for about 2 hours and filled an IV battery after id spent all that time screwing around with it - i used a large duranium rotor, because i couldnt get the huge one to spin for more than 3-4 seconds.
That same turbine was still spinning at that power output and had only lost about 10k of its durability.

 

[Blood Asp]

True. I'd eventually upgrade the design, but since so much stuff goes into the turbines I'm glad I can keep the reactor small at first.


Steel production is insignificant in its demands. I don't need that much of it in the first place unless it's for big projects like the reactor, and it's fast. As for where the time went until now: logic processors. Each one requires a silicon plate, one annihilation/formation core requires four processors, one ME interface requires two of those and one 64k storage cell requires...hmmm...I think it was 80 (as compared to the 27 of original AE2) - not that I need that size as yet, but the time will come. You can see how things add up.

My personal best was 2 HV EBFs and 14 MV EBFs.

 

[Ieldra]

Can anyone remind me which BR Turbine blocks require Cyanite and how much per?

I'm at work but trying to decide if I can build a small turbine at this time.

I have ~840 Yellorite Ore in my stockpile currently. That probably translates to around 84 cyanite, assuming we get 5% cyanite per ore, doubled as per http://wiki.enderio.com/Dark_Steel_Ball

Turbine Housing blocks require cyanite. You need one ingot per four turbine housing blocks. Some other turbine blocks also require turbine housings as a crafting element. A maximum-size turbine should require somewhere between 4 and 5 stacks of cyanite, assuming the rotor blades don't need any, which I don't recall at the moment.

 

[Pyure]

Turbine Housing blocks require cyanite. You need one ingot per four turbine housing blocks. Some other turbine blocks also require turbine housings as a crafting element. A maximum-size turbine should require somewhere between 4 and 5 stacks of cyanite, assuming the rotor blades don't need any, which I don't recall at the moment.

Hmm, going to my original inquiry, might be enough, might not. It would be a pretty small turbine accepting ideally 1200 mb/s

 

[Pyure]

@Ieldra, thought you might be interested to know what 13 stacks of yellorite processed with dark steel gets you.

I got 144 cyanite (so I suck at math somewhere) and it built this with exactly 1 cyanite to spare (no joke). 48 of it went directly to the blades at 1 cyanite per.

Stats
=====
Rotation: 1851.6 RPM
Power: 3023 rf/t
Steam: 780 mb/t

Ideally I'd be able to consume 1200 mb/t, since that's the output of a Large Steel Boiler. HoweverI can't do fluxed electrum yet or ludicrite, and the rest of the gregtech metal blocks are broken. I'm pretty tempted to re-add GemBlocksForGreg since those blocks are supposed to be available (Titanium, Platinum, Electrum, Aluminium etc).

Alternatively another 1-2 stacks of yellorite would probably let me add another length to the turbine.

edit: in what is an absolutely awesome coincidence, titanium blocks (3 rows) provides exactly enough steam extraction at 1200 mb/t to spin at 1847 RPM, providing 7230 RF/t. Yes I think I will patch the missing-block error in GT thank you

 

[Pyure]

RF -> EU Conversion, non-wussy style. Images and notes in spoiler.

Spoiler

1) You can't see it, but there's a pneumatic generator and flux compressor buried in all that cooling array.

2.) You can just make out the conduit going into the top of the flux compressor. Its drawing from a test capacitor bank which is outputing 1/4 the amount that my turbine can generate (more on that in a moment.)

3) Closer look, now you can see the pneumatic generator. WAILA is telling us that temperatures are fine where i'm pointing, because the flux compressor really won't run as hot as the pneumatic in our setup.

4) GUI of the Pneumatic. I've installed a security upgrade (prevent explosions if pressure builds up) and 2 speed upgrades (causing it to run in 512 eu/t mode)
As you can see, we're running a bit warm and losing some efficiency, although I did a full 2mil RF test and it produced precisely 500,001 EU (no joke)
We're also converting 1807 RF/t because I can't bear to run this thing any hotter. If I add another speed upgrade, the heat will skyrocket.
I could probably get the temperature down to around 50C if I employed some of the more clever cooling tricks, but they all cost energy.

So to convert 7230 RF/T "efficiently" will require 4 of these arrays.

Let me know if you can do a much better job cooling them

 

[Jason McRay]

RF -> EU Conversion, non-wussy style. Images and notes in spoiler.

Spoiler

1) You can't see it, but there's a pneumatic generator and flux compressor buried in all that cooling array.
View attachment 20622

2.) You can just make out the conduit going into the top of the flux compressor. Its drawing from a test capacitor bank which is outputing 1/4 the amount that my turbine can generate (more on that in a moment.)
View attachment 20623

3) Closer look, now you can see the pneumatic generator. WAILA is telling us that temperatures are fine where i'm pointing, because the flux compressor really won't run as hot as the pneumatic in our setup.
View attachment 20625

4) GUI of the Pneumatic. I've installed a security upgrade (prevent explosions if pressure builds up) and 2 speed upgrades (causing it to run in 512 eu/t mode)
As you can see, we're running a bit warm and losing some efficiency, although I did a full 2mil RF test and it produced precisely 500,001 EU (no joke)
We're also converting 1807 RF/t because I can't bear to run this thing any hotter. If I add another speed upgrade, the heat will skyrocket.
I could probably get the temperature down to around 50C if I employed some of the more clever cooling tricks, but they all cost energy.
View attachment 20628


So to convert 7230 RF/T "efficiently" will require 4 of these arrays.

Let me know if you can do a much better job cooling them

Noob speaking: Surround with Water? Or Ice?

 

[Ieldra]

@Ieldra, thought you might be interested to know what 13 stacks of yellorite processed with dark steel gets you.

Interesting. Actually, I probably have enough cyanite now after having run my ender quarry for a very long time, but I'm thinking of making a smaller turbine anyway since making 12+ conversion setups seems excessive at this point. Also, it appears if I make a BR turbine and use it instead of the RC turbine, I'll drastically improve my efficiency - even with low-tier coils, and since I've been to the End now (Hardcore Ender Expansion made the End a cool place, I like it), the times of Ender Pearl shortage are in the past, and I may be able to use Enderium blocks for the coil - after a week on the EBF since Enderium is one of those 300 seconds per ingot recipes.

Regarding the conversion, I would rather use some of the converted power for more efficient cooling than having a dozen of those blocks standing around. Also - I'm not at home so I can't check this - would there be any way to use that waste heat to convert more water to steam?

: in what is an absolutely awesome coincidence, titanium blocks (3 rows) provides exactly enough steam extraction at 1200 mb/t to spin at 1847 RPM, providing 7230 RF/t. Yes I think I will patch the missing-block error in GT thank you

Cool Tell me how that works with the GT fix. I haven't checked, but I might need this for Enderium blocks.

 

[Ieldra]

Yessir. I did all this in my last world a few months ago, although I didn't really consider it a big problem.

I was running two HV ebfs and one MV version fwiw.

I guess I could wait until I'm at that point, but....I see little point in waiting to craft my extensive auto-crafting system until there's little left to use it for. In fact, it is one of the less appealing consequences of the way the pack is designed that by pushing back certain technologies, some mods aren't feasible to use when they'd be most useful. Case in question: Thaumic Energistics, but this also goes for AE2 as a whole. I think AE2 is placed at a plausible place in the tech tree, but making things extremely expensive on top of that has this undesirable side effect: while you're waiting - for real-time days - for your machines (ebf in particular) to process raw materials into a state where they can be used, you find other things to do, and you'll end up having progressed to the end in some other mods even before the materials for your next big tech project are available. I would've loved to have Thaumic Energistics machines when I made all that void stuff from the Eldritch tab, but it wasn't feasible, and it also wasn't feasible to build more GT stuff before I had the power shortage addressed, which is part of that big project (AE2 to store the resources for the power generation setup, and that power generation setup itself) I was talking about.

A part of that is rather cool. I made a lot of high-tier tools I wouldn't have bothered with in other packs, just because technological automation wasn't possible for some tasks and plainly, sometimes because I had nothing better to do while I was waiting. But my preference lies in building, not in collecting resources, and so rather often I feel like I'm fighting the pack as soon as I get into technology.

 

[Pyure]

Noob speaking: Surround with Water? Or Ice?

You'd think so, but as per the IGW, those are "static" heat sources (well, heat sinks in this case). They never themselves change temperature, so they don't have a big impact on dynamic heat blocks.

Static heat sources are:
-Air
-Ice
-Packed Ice
-Snow
-Torch
-Fire
-Any Liquid (including Water and Lava)

That last one is why me and Ieldra have a hard time keeping our refineries warm.

I think AE2 is placed at a plausible place in the tech tree, but making things extremely expensive on top of that has this undesirable side effect: while you're waiting - for real-time days - for your machines (ebf in particular) to process raw materials into a state where they can be used, you find other things to do, and you'll end up having progressed to the end in some other mods even before the materials for your next big tech project are available.

I know you're not totally unique in this respect - a guy on Groveham's server threatened to quit when we took away offline chunkloading, and he couldn't just cruise-control all his EBF work while offline.

But I think its something that peeps gotta just deal with, or tackle the "GT Way", which is factories instead of blocks. Although I do think Blood's 16 EBFs is a bit excessive

You could probably make IC2 nukes right now, so power definitely shouldn't be any kind of problem.

Cool Tell me how that works with the GT fix. I haven't checked, but I might need this for Enderium blocks.

Works awesome. http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=11276

This addon is fully supported by Greg cuz he didn't want to repair the blocks himself. It has Enderium blocks. I haven't tested if they work or not.

Afaik the best blocks are Ludicrite (not part of the addon, you have them already) if you're interested in setting up wither farming

 

[Tsuko]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be fair, the version with coolant has a much better optimal efficiency. Yours tops at 40.9k whereas mine tops at 52k. In that sense the coolant has a huge benefit. Obviously we aren't talking about running them at peak efficiency, but I just wanted to clarify that.

I just turned off my silicon production recently. I'm up to three stacks of silicon ingots, so I probably play minecraft too much (I never let the game run by itself btw). I decided it was time to crank out some stainless instead.

Maybe I have an advantage over you in that I don't waste EBFs on steel. The wrought-iron ebf recipe is excellent, but I still stick with my thaumcraft/ordo setup for now, which frees up the EBF to hoard things I know I'll need soon.

I like your stance of not letting minecraft run in the background, imo it is kinda cheaty

 

[Pyure]

I like your stance of not letting minecraft run in the background, imo it is kinda cheaty

You have icy, greggified blood in your veins my friend