[0.5.1] Technomancy Discussion-Ore processing like a boss

[James_Grimm]

Here's a quick question for the lot of you who still happen to follow this post.

I'm currently working a way to process ores using different magic mods. Each time the ore is processed by a different mod, it gets more "pure" and increases the amount of ingots gained when smelted. So, if you processed it through Thaumcraft alone, you get 2 ingots when smelted. If you process it through Thaumcraft, Blood Magic, and Witchery, you get 4 ingots instead. This applies to iron, gold, tin, copper, lead, silver, and nickel. When hovering over the processed ore, it tells the purity level (how many ores you'll get when smelting) and when holding down the shift key, the item will display what mods it has been processed by.

First and foremost, is this a good system? I know generally and extra 4 ingots(when using 5 of the mods intended for support) vs the normal 2 ingots is a bit much. Generally, people aren't going to use all 5 magic mods so most will only get an extra 2 or 3 ingots vs the normal route. The system could be easily changed to incorporate the normal ore processing, each giving 2 ingots when processing 1 ore (without having to grind them into dusts).

Now, if this is a good system and is something that people would use and enjoy playing with, there is another question that stands. Should the texture for the purified ore change after each time it's processed to accommodate for the processor? I've figured out a way to do it, it's just a matter of implementing it. I want to make sure that this entire idea of ore processing is worth the time and the effort if I go to such means.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated except for anything dirty and or sexual.

I really like this idea, because the best Tech ore multiplier systems use many steps for the really high output (even TE requires you to get TE Cinnabar for x3/4 ore production, which is not inconsequential outside of maybe AgSkies). I would note that Thaumcraft alone already has a Ore doubling mechanic (Alchemical transmutation into a Ore Cluster/Pickaxe of the Core's special ability), and you can already automate it (and even more so in TC 1.7 from what I've seen). I think it's the only mod besides Ars Magica to have it, and Ars doesn't make it's own item like TC does if I remember right, so if you had some system that combined say TC Ore Clusters and Blood Magic slates into some kind of magic(sanquine?) ore cluster that seems like it would work thematically. I'm not sure what you would use from Ars, Witchery, and any other mods, Mutandis/Fumes seems a little too easy to make. But I really like the idea, especially since I've been liking Magic mods more then Tech lately, but I would love to be able to build a Multi-magic mod processing system to rival what I see from Mechanism/Rotarycraft systems in Ako's videos.

Graphically, personally I would prefer a different icon for each 'tier' of ore, so I could tell something that would make 3 ingots app art from 4 ingots with a glance rather then using a tooltip. That's one thing I like about TC's current cluster system, perhaps it could look progressively more crystalline as it's purified?

Tangent: I have some ideas for the fuel list of your planned Thaumic Dynamo if your interested in reading them sometime.

 

[Democretes]

Honestly, I am not quite fond of the idea of having people process ores through two different processes from two different mods. Even if this is FTB and many of these mods work with each other in many ways, I think it would just make things needlessly complicated for both the players and the mod makers. That's fine if you want to experiment with purifying ores beforehand to get better yields, but may I suggest you build your own machines contained in your own mod for this specific purpose instead of having players rely on other ore processing mechanics from other mods? Also, make the process require a bit of infrastructure as I'm sure doing it early on in the mod might make it a bit OP.

All the processing mechanics would be made through new blocks I would add. The would not require any RF, instead they would run off the power system in their respective magic mods. As an example, Thaumcraft would have a machine using ignis and potentia to purify the ores. Blood Magic would have a "demon capture jar" that you use to capture the tiny demon and force feed him ores by giving him some blood from you LP system, or like @James_Grimm suggested, a way to make sanguine ores. I wouldn't rely on the sytems they have in place as most of them don't have a system other than Thaumcraft, which is mediocre at best.

I really like this idea, because the best Tech ore multiplier systems use many steps for the really high output (even TE requires you to get TE Cinnabar for x3/4 ore production, which is not inconsequential outside of maybe AgSkies). I would note that Thaumcraft alone already has a Ore doubling mechanic (Alchemical transmutation into a Ore Cluster/Pickaxe of the Core's special ability), and you can already automate it (and even more so in TC 1.7 from what I've seen). I think it's the only mod besides Ars Magica to have it, and Ars doesn't make it's own item like TC does if I remember right, so if you had some system that combined say TC Ore Clusters and Blood Magic slates into some kind of magic(sanquine?) ore cluster that seems like it would work thematically. I'm not sure what you would use from Ars, Witchery, and any other mods, Mutandis/Fumes seems a little too easy to make. But I really like the idea, especially since I've been liking Magic mods more then Tech lately, but I would love to be able to build a Multi-magic mod processing system to rival what I see from Mechanism/Rotarycraft systems in Ako's videos.

Graphically, personally I would prefer a different icon for each 'tier' of ore, so I could tell something that would make 3 ingots app art from 4 ingots with a glance rather then using a tooltip. That's one thing I like about TC's current cluster system, perhaps it could look progressively more crystalline as it's purified?

Tangent: I have some ideas for the fuel list of your planned Thaumic Dynamo if your interested in reading them sometime.

I think I'll go with that texture Idea over my own. It'll be hell of a lot easier for me, and much niftier. Although I'm keeping the tool tip so you know what it has been processed through.

 

[trajing]

Hmm.
I'd like modular magic mod weapons. Adding blood to it provides LP each time you kill it, can run off various vis for different abilities, works as an AM2 mana battery...
And so on.

 

[DrowElf]

Hmm.
I'd like modular magic mod weapons. Adding blood to it provides LP each time you kill it, can run off various vis for different abilities, works as an AM2 mana battery...
And so on.

That sounds like a nightmare to code.

 

[Eliav24]

What about the existing materials of ore purification? Would it at least be viable to start the process with some of them (i.e. only for the first step), such as using thaumcraft's native ore clusters->AM2+BM processing?

 

[Democretes]

What about the existing materials of ore purification? Would it at least be viable to start the process with some of them (i.e. only for the first step), such as using thaumcraft's native ore clusters->AM2+BM processing?

I don't consider a 50% chance to get an extra half an ingot to be considered ore processing. I call that a waste of resources. If I'm going to make people invest time and materials to make an ore processing system, it's going to useful regardless of where you start. Regardless, not everyone is going to use Thaumcraft all the time so I don't want to require it either.

 

[Eliav24]

You can get native clusters with some alchemy, i think.

 

[James_Grimm]

You can get native clusters with some alchemy, i think.

That was more what I was thinking. Azanor recently added crucible recipes to make native clusters with Ordo in 1.6. With the automated crucible in base TC, it's now just a matter of setting up a source of Ordo essentia, and feeding the ore in to the construct to get 100% doubled ores. It's very processing like, if it wasn't for the magical transmutation bit underlying the whole thing. I was thinking you would base off that, not the Pick. But hey, I've really liked what Technomancy has made up so far, so I'm sure it'll be cool however it works.

I can see why few think of that method, it's a little bit harder then setting up a TE Pulverizer>Furnace chain, since you have to research a lot of Alchemy to get it, and I think it was only added in the last few 1.6 TC releases. Before that you were stuck relying on the pick's random chance, which I agree would have sucked, the auto-crucible is also useful for the mass production of Alumentum, making it worth using as a fuel more often. (Tangent: It was going to be the center of my Magic World 2 Ore processing, since no TE in that pack, but I keep crashing when I run that pack, and haven''t figure it out yet.)

 

[Vicerious]

Don't you also get native clusters from processing ore in the infernal furnace while feeding it ignis?

 

[James_Grimm]

Don't you also get native clusters from processing ore in the infernal furnace while feeding it ignis?

No, with a fully upgraded I-Furnace, you get a chance for bonus nuggets. You also get this chance off clusters not just regular ore, so technically TC gets you up to ~2.25x Processing.

 

[Democretes]

That was more what I was thinking. Azanor recently added crucible recipes to make native clusters with Ordo in 1.6. With the automated crucible in base TC, it's now just a matter of setting up a source of Ordo essentia, and feeding the ore in to the construct to get 100% doubled ores. It's very processing like, if it wasn't for the magical transmutation bit underlying the whole thing. I was thinking you would base off that, not the Pick. But hey, I've really liked what Technomancy has made up so far, so I'm sure it'll be cool however it works.

I can see why few think of that method, it's a little bit harder then setting up a TE Pulverizer>Furnace chain, since you have to research a lot of Alchemy to get it, and I think it was only added in the last few 1.6 TC releases. Before that you were stuck relying on the pick's random chance, which I agree would have sucked, the auto-crucible is also useful for the mass production of Alumentum, making it worth using as a fuel more often. (Tangent: It was going to be the center of my Magic World 2 Ore processing, since no TE in that pack, but I keep crashing when I run that pack, and haven''t figure it out yet.)

Didn't know you could make clusters. That's new to me. Regardless, I dont want to rely on clusters as a source of ore forcing people to start processing with TC. That, and the auto-crucible isnt cheap or effective. In addition to the cost of the auto-crucible, you need a golem to fill it up with water, another crucible, and you'll probably end up spending some of your metal creating clusters as they require metallum and ordo.
And in all honesty, I like doing things my own way. I don't want to rely a feature that may dissappear in the next few updates. I want something solid that I can rely on, which happens to be myself.

 

[Moridin]

So, what you're saying is that you're believing in the you that believes in the you that believes in you?

In all seriousness, though, I'm glad to see you're alive and kicking, and working on combining my favorite mods even further!

 

[Eliav24]

I said it as an added possibility: If you already have a large thaumcraft development, or any specific magic mod development, but very little in other fields, you could, but wont have to, use native clusters, or any other step-one-ore-doubling as a start on the process (idk much about some of the magic mods, so it might be only a thaumcraft possibility).

This is mainly so no one will feel "forced" to start with all the mods simultaneously, or completely skip the existing system, just for the ore processing. It should not replace your full setup.

If you really want, you can restrict it by counting it as the second or third increase, I.e. rather than getting from 1 ore->2->3->4->4.5 ingots, you get from one native cluster(2 ingot worth)->3->4 ingots

 

[Democretes]

I said it as an added possibility: If you already have a large thaumcraft development, or any specific magic mod development, but very little in other fields, you could, but wont have to, use native clusters, or any other step-one-ore-doubling as a start on the process (idk much about some of the magic mods, so it might be only a thaumcraft possibility).

This is mainly so no one will feel "forced" to start with all the mods simultaneously, or completely skip the existing system, just for the ore processing. It should not replace your full setup.

If you really want, you can restrict it by counting it as the second or third increase, I.e. rather than getting from 1 ore->2->3->4->4.5 ingots, you get from one native cluster(2 ingot worth)->3->4 ingots

You already won't be forced to start with all themods simultaneously. You don't need to process through every mod to get your output, you can process through a single one or all 5 to get what you want. You have options. If you want 3 ingots per ore, you can do it. Just expect a little more work starting with more mods. If you just want doubling, you can just do a single mod and get 2 ingots per ore as is the norm. That is my main reasoning.

My second source of reasoning is how late game it is to set up an auto-crucible compared to a normal ore processing setup. They aren't exactly cheap and require a lot more setup and infrastructure than what I'm looking for. If you want ore doubling, you have to have some progress, not 3/4 of the way through the mod. I can make a pulverizer fairly early in the game. I want the same for the TC ore processor.

 

[timandy1]

Can we have some images?

 

[Democretes]

Can we have some images?

Sure thing. Here's the progress so far.

Spoiler: Images

You probably would've gotten better results by asking for an ETA.
I'll give you status updates when I feel like giving status updates. Unless I regularly talk to you privately, you're not allowed to ask for ETAs/images. It's like asking an author if you can read their book before they're finished. Don't do it next time, it's bad form.

 

[Not_Steve]

Sure thing. Here's the progress so far.

Spoiler: Images

View attachment 11275

You seem to have it well under control but if you ever need some help with textures I'll be glad to help out

 

[Democretes]

You seem to have it well under control but if you ever need some help with textures I'll be glad to help out

I think the texture shown is pretty good. I'll tell you if I need a new one.

 

[Democretes]

And now for the guessing game! If you guess which ores are in the hotbar (going from left to right), and guess them correctly, you may win a special prize!

 

[Not_Steve]

View attachment 11304
And now for the guessing game! If you guess which ores are in the hotbar (going from left to right), and guess them correctly, you may win a special prize!

Nickel tin lead silver iron gold copper