Is energy from lava appropriate?
- Thread starter raiju
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This overpowered that overpowered, everything is overpowered! One day you will say food is overpowered and you will need to sit on a table and eat for 10 minutes or something.
Then you ask why gregtech exists or why the portal gun changed.
Then you ask why gregtech exists or why the portal gun changed.
Only if you want pure coal, diamond and gems; fortune 3 only give 2.2 gems/coal per ore, while I. grinder gives 2.5 dusts per ore.
Just checked, and the grinder (the one with the rotating thing inside) gives even 3.5 per coal block.
But compared to just having a pick, you need a full set of machinery, and it uses power.
industrial grinder gives 1 coal, 1 hydrated coal dust and 2 tiny piles of coal dust, and require a water cell + 12800 EU and 5s, and that per block.
Not quite worth it, coal producing only 4000 EU,
That comforts me into thinking that my 1-4 per block with my pick is better, as I don't have to wait or to give it power.
But compared to just having a pick, you need a full set of machinery, and it uses power.
industrial grinder gives 1 coal, 1 hydrated coal dust and 2 tiny piles of coal dust, and require a water cell + 12800 EU and 5s, and that per block.
Not quite worth it, coal producing only 4000 EU,
That comforts me into thinking that my 1-4 per block with my pick is better, as I don't have to wait or to give it power.
Example? Also, if correct, this says that there is a mismatch between mods. What is your reasoning for saying lava is overpowered, as opposed to, say, water mills (or whatever generation method that you are saying lava generation makes obsolete) being underpowered?
You are aware that some lavas are >7% iron oxide by weight?
See here.
I've been playing multiplayer games long enough to not buy into such a naive statement.
Ok maybe not coal, I rarely silktouch coal because it's just not worth the pickaxe. But for ruby and diamond dusts I used it most of the time for glass fibre and chrome. Aqueous accumulator below the grinder takes care of the water cell, and eu.. not a problem.
the WoW forums used to be quite fond of: "Rock is overpowered, paper is fine. Sincerely, scissors." sums up most arguments about game balance fairly well.
And everybody who says this stuff is OP never has an answer for burning charcoal in a furnace on wood gives an excess of charcoal so how is (one example) using lava to convert netherrack into lava overpowered?
Because you don't hear many people say "I'll just turn wood to charcoal to burn for EU and never need another power source".
Charcoal's energetic output is pretty bad, tbh.
But now i want to go and build a base that's fueled exclusively by a row of furnaces cycling charcoal, and fed by tree farms. A ceaseless stream of coal pumping through my whole base to every machine bank, how steampunk.
I think lava is not that OP for IC2-GT (default matter fabricator and all his eu-hungry machines). It's pretty fine actually. What I call OP is the centrifuge recipe that can convert 64 lava to tin, copper, electrum and tungsten.
Well, nether lava will run dry one day (but it's a pretty good starting up point). Netherrack/magma crucible/magmatic engine (the easiest set up) only have 56% efficiency, which is around 16.8k per netherrack in Thermal Generator. There are a lot more options that have better eu generation than that.
For BC energy, I think Forestry farm+Steam Boiler is still the best (or maybe bluetricity engine, no idea haven't tried to over-engineer these stuff).
Well, nether lava will run dry one day (but it's a pretty good starting up point). Netherrack/magma crucible/magmatic engine (the easiest set up) only have 56% efficiency, which is around 16.8k per netherrack in Thermal Generator. There are a lot more options that have better eu generation than that.
For BC energy, I think Forestry farm+Steam Boiler is still the best (or maybe bluetricity engine, no idea haven't tried to over-engineer these stuff).
That's actually a very good energy source. A forestry tree farm or even better- steves carts can pump out tons of maintenance free energy. It's not nearly as "cool" to post look at my charcoal burning machines though so there is that...[DOUBLEPOST=1357848317][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'm starting barrels for copper & tin blocks. Unfortunately I can't make electrum blocks...
I'm starting barrels for copper & tin blocks. Unfortunately I can't make electrum blocks...
Build challenge: using a system powered exclusively by charcoal, construct a GT fusion reactor. Post results.
Well charcoal can be farmed so really it would only be an issue with scale. A bunch of tree farms to automate the charcoal production and ship that into the tier one generators and feed them into a storage arrary. Does not matter the generators output once stored you can draw that off at what ever level you please. Set it to go come back a few days later and that removes the power issue.
If you really wanted to make it a challenge make it Coal only. Tho I believe there is a bee that makes coal dust which you might be able to get back into coal so you might have to restrict that.
The issue is any farmable unlimited fuel source can make power a non-issue provided you have some sort of storage for power and the time to build up that storage to what you need. Even coal could be used like this but it would just be a pain to have to strip mine the planet to feed your power needs.
By this logic games where balance is intended (as oppose to switching of scales like WoW) wouldn't get patched. The argument also doesn't translate into minecraft power sources well at all. If you really think rock paper scissors balance arguments work in this context, think it through and if you can come to an agreeable explanation fair enough (you won't).
Minecraft does not have the issues of a game such as WoW where someone tends to invest days of real life played time into a single character, up to weeks, months and some people even hit years. People have an attachment to a character and it is not easy to switch on the fly. In terms of profession bonuses, you can only have 2.
Minecraft allows you create all the energy systems you want in whatever order you want and as large as you want. You are limited by nothing but the resources you collect. Rock Paper Scissors does not exist when you can have all hands at once and choose your main one on the fly. In fact the analogy falls apart altogether. Hopefully that's enough evidence as to why rock paper scissors doesn't apply.
@Evil Hamster, something which gives such small amounts of EU means lategame the infrastructure required would be absolutely ridiculous. Even midgame it would be absolutely ridiculous. You might as well just run off a little running machine ingame for the amount of setup time for matter fabrication. Lava's energy per unit is much higher.
Charcoal does work nearly that way in RL, you burn a lot of wood with little fuel (charcoal or something else) and get a lot of charcoal as a result.
Ok, it is not done in an oven, but the process is actually quite close.
I personally only consider something OP in Minecraft if it gives a boost compared to other similar things, without a real boost in the cost.
Mining drills, they burn through EU quite fast, and still need 3 diamonds to be equal to the diamond pick, the lack of durability is compensated by the need for EU and the lack of possible enchants on it.
That was just an example.
Plus, it only applies to multi-player, as you can damn well do whatever you want in your single player, even spawn yourself the diamonds, the tools, force enchants on stuff, anything goes.
But on Multiplayer, you want to be rewarded for the time and resources you invest in an item, and if some other do everything better, at lesser cost, you won't quite enjoy having worked on that.
But anyway, OP or not is subjective, as you could even say that wooden pick is OP due to the fact it mines stone and coal without troubles...
Ok, it is not done in an oven, but the process is actually quite close.
I personally only consider something OP in Minecraft if it gives a boost compared to other similar things, without a real boost in the cost.
Mining drills, they burn through EU quite fast, and still need 3 diamonds to be equal to the diamond pick, the lack of durability is compensated by the need for EU and the lack of possible enchants on it.
That was just an example.
Plus, it only applies to multi-player, as you can damn well do whatever you want in your single player, even spawn yourself the diamonds, the tools, force enchants on stuff, anything goes.
But on Multiplayer, you want to be rewarded for the time and resources you invest in an item, and if some other do everything better, at lesser cost, you won't quite enjoy having worked on that.
But anyway, OP or not is subjective, as you could even say that wooden pick is OP due to the fact it mines stone and coal without troubles...
I like this challenge, I even used charcoal+hydrogen->methane cell, until Greg added additional 112k eu to produce methane from H2 and carbon cells (charcoals).
In this discussion the rock is so hot it beats paper though... Also, if this was a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" situation then what exactly would beat sucking Lava from the Nether for free power? I like the saying, but in this case it doesn't really apply as the forms of power generation in FTB aren't based around a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" principle. It's more like "Rock, Paper, Dynamite" in FTB xD
Seriously though, it's not only with pumping lava out of the Nether that lava is powerful. It's also one of the best MJ to EU conversion "tools". I mean I don't really see why Biofuel -> Boiler -> Lava -> EU should be allowed to be many times more powerful than just straight Biofuel -> EU.
I personally don't think it has to be nerfed though. Pretty much all sources of power in this mod are infinite and the ones that aren't are only limited by world size, which isn't really a limit either (especially not with chunk loaders and things like ender chests).
The only reason people pick one or the other is preference.
I think that is fine... Everyday I read that this mod is OP, or this other is OP and this is disappointing that pass changes that not everybody do not like.
We all have different ways to play, and the important thing is to have fun, if you like to play hard and I like easy mode is no reason to force to play another the way you think best.
I like GT for the configuration file, and I think the best thing is that modders enabling modify the major part of the mod, disabling parts that we do not like it, adjust the levels obtained or need to create or maintain in operation machines
I don´t like to spend 100 hours for get a drill, for that I disable the recipe the GT, is my way to get fun!
3 configurations
Easy ...
Normal ... aaannnndddd
extreme super-hard, crazy extreme .... LOL
Actually I play the Direwolf20 Pack, Sorry my English, I am learning
We all have different ways to play, and the important thing is to have fun, if you like to play hard and I like easy mode is no reason to force to play another the way you think best.
I like GT for the configuration file, and I think the best thing is that modders enabling modify the major part of the mod, disabling parts that we do not like it, adjust the levels obtained or need to create or maintain in operation machines
I don´t like to spend 100 hours for get a drill, for that I disable the recipe the GT, is my way to get fun!
3 configurations
Easy ...
Normal ... aaannnndddd
extreme super-hard, crazy extreme ....
LOLActually I play the Direwolf20 Pack, Sorry my English, I am learning