A Shitstorm

[midi_sec]

For the sake of the poll, I'd even lump hydraulics in there too. They're different enough from MJ and RF, the only other two options.

Where would you stick EU? Pointless question, but one to consider when asking about pneumatics and hydraulics. The power system isn't as important as the concepts behind them imo.

 

[trajing]

I'd consider "Mechanical" to be pressure, RoC watts, stuff like that.

 

[Nanolathe]

I rather feel like the important part of my comment was glossed over in an effort to pointlessly debate definitions.

 

[Golrith]

Sorry, but pneumaticcrafts power system is the same as RF. You generate pressure (aka RF) in it's burning thingy (aka dynamo) connect the tubes (aka conduits) to say a pressure chamber (aka redstone furnace), once enough pressure has built up, it does something. The only differences are the equalisation of pressure across the system (nothing to major to worry about), and pressure tubes are open at one end, so will drain your pressure when not connected (so you have to build smart).

Perhaps some of you guys would like the top tier conduits to leak their liquid redstone when a conduit doesn't make a connection? Just like PneumaticCrafts pressure tubes?

Anyway, the main issue I have with power systems at the moment is the generation rate. Take in the old days, your BC engines I believe generated 1, 2 or 4 mj/t. Forestry added it's own within this scale, and Railcraft added a new top tier engine that reached the dizzy heights of 8mj/t. You had to build "engine spam" to get a lot of machines running and people are happy. Nowadays some people are not happy that other people are building Dynamo Spam.
Then along came Thermal Expansion with Dynamos, that straight out of the bat in the first version produced the equivalent of 4mj/t (then upgraded to 8mj/t!). Instantly making all those other mods power gen systems seem obsolete by appearing inferior. While I love what KL and team COFH have produced, the dynamo rate is something I strongly disagree with (but I am pleased it's now a config option).


If the community has an issue with the RF API, then it's the community's fault. KL just demonstrates a basic implementation of RF API in TE, and has stated numerous times that it can be designed to be lossy like MJ, but that's down to modders using the API.

The only way to get a more involved, complex, challenging, thought engaging power system is not to scream and yell about how dull RF is, but to come up with a design and demonstrate it. Mobs with placards rarely get anything achieved.

 

[midi_sec]

I rather feel like the important part of my comment was glossed over in an effort to pointlessly debate definitions.

Which part? I purposely ignored your bit about "entitlement" because I get so tired of seeing that word so flippantly thrown around lately. The only thing anybody in this thread is doing is stating their opinion on what prefer; coincidence that is the title purpose of the thread? Anyway...

 

[Celestialphoenix]

I'd consider "Mechanical" to be pressure, RoC watts, stuff like that.

I'd probably lump 'mechanical' energy as a transmission of force/kinetic energy (Rotational/Hydraulic/Pneumatic) wheres 'electrical' energy is conducted through a medium (Eu/MJ/RF). Magic is "magic".

Either way having a lossy network results in better gameplay- because you're engaging the player and encouraging them to design systems and think creatively.
Heck- you could drop a 10% loss on TE's conduits AND buff dynamos by 10%.

Theres no overall difference in efficiency (you still have '100%' of the power feeding the machines), but immediately you've got someone thinking a little more about what their doing, and how they could achieve '105%'...
​

One thing I like love about the buildcraft engines/powergrid is the logic, gates, and control you can design into a system. Give the control to the player. Give them the tools to sculpt with, rather than a pile of statues.

 

[trajing]

@Golrith Except the pressure equalizes, making it more of a challenge. If you have more compressors, you need to use a ton more coal to fill the same machine to the same level.

 

[Queue]

Which part? I purposely ignored your bit about "entitlement" because I get so tired of seeing that word so flippantly thrown around lately. The only thing anybody in this thread is doing is stating their opinion on what prefer; coincidence that is the title purpose of the thread? Anyway...

The title was a joke about where these threads tend to go after a bit. Still thought it was necessary to post however

 

[Nanolathe]

@Golrith Except the pressure equalizes, making it more of a challenge. If you have more compressors, you need to use a ton more coal to fill the same machine to the same level.

And things can go boom if you leave them unregulated for too long.

It's actually the only punishment system I'm rather fond of; it takes time before it all goes to hell, rather than blowing up in your face the moment you do something "wrong", and there are regulation systems built-in to the mod that can make the system 100% safe again.

 

[midi_sec]

The title was a joke about where these threads tend to go after a bit. Still thought it was necessary to post however

i ninja-struckthrough title, I meant the "purpose" I guess.

Your OP was 1/2 opinion, and this person is calling people "entitled" for stating what they would like to see, or what they prefer to play in an opinion post?

 

[Golrith]

And things can go boom if you leave them unregulated for too long.

It's actually the only punishment system I'm rather fond of; it takes time before it all goes to hell, rather than blowing up in your face the moment you do something "wrong".

Yep. I like that too. Similar to the original BC system of engines exploding, you had a short amount of time and a visual warning.
Minecraft being Minecraft, it's very easy to misclick or misplace something, if that something happens to be a high voltage power cable that must go in one place only, just for it to go in the block next door resulting in BOOM is a poor design decison. Like most players, I play this game for fun, not for punishment (well, unless I'm feeling sadist and fancy BnB or a bit of crash landing... )

Perhaps it would be worth making a poll/discussion to identify what are the existing interesting power generation mechanics that are popular, and try and establish how it could be applied into a RF environment or as a new unique power system, since, nothing lasts forever, something in the future will "replace" RF.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

It's actually the only punishment system I'm rather fond of; it takes time before it all goes to hell, rather than blowing up in your face the moment you do something "wrong", and there are regulation systems built-in to the mod that can make the system 100% safe again.

Reminds me of the old IC2 reactors.
Unless you went really stupid with the uranium there was some fairly decent visual warning before you had to rebuild something.

(I would like to see something like that in the Eu any powergrid- if you give it too much you'd get a load of particle effect and sounds before it all melts)

 

[Lawbroken]

The title was a joke about where these threads tend to go after a bit. Still thought it was necessary to post however

The title is probably the reason it got to the stupid part so quickly.

 

[Deftscythe]

I've only skimmed the thread so sorry if this was mentioned but people should bear in mind that RF itself isn't really a thing, it's an API. The only thing that should remain constant is it's value relative to other forms of power(IE 1MJ=10RF), beyond that mod-makers are free to implement it any way they see fit. Someone could make dynamos that produce like engines and will explode if unattended or cables that lose power with distance. It's not the fault of RF that devs have chosen to copy TE's implementation.

 

[Zenthon_127]

So after reading this thread, I am very confused what exactly most of the posters in this thread are even going on about. You don't like the power-transfer system of TE4. Yay. So where exactly was it stated that.....

• Railcraft and Forestry are losing leaky power
• You are now forced to use power storage
• The old MJ playstyle is dead

Nowhere. None of that was ever stated in Covert's post. What has been stated is that Forestry and eventually Railcraft will use the RF API. That's it. We'll very likely still have leaky power, and if you can just choose not to use power storage absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever except you no longer have gates. And at this rate BC itself will probably transfer over to RF and then everything will be normal. In fact, if BC indeed transfers you could technically use every RF mod just like you would with the current MJ versions of Forestry and RC.

This entire thread is based around the idea that RF is forced to be lossless and safe. That idea is wrong.

 

[trajing]

I've only skimmed the thread so sorry if this was mentioned but people should bear in mind that RF itself isn't really a thing, it's an API. The only thing that should remain constant is it's value relative to other forms of power(IE 1MJ=10RF), beyond that mod-makers are free to implement it any way they see fit. Someone could make dynamos that produce like engines and will explode if unattended or cables that lose power with distance. It's not the fault of RF that devs have chosen to copy TE's implementation.

Actually, it is in a way. We would have seen a complex RF mod by now, but the RF community will rip it to shreds with "RF is supposed to be simple." Before you say that they could just ignore them, the MC community seems to be comprised of two-year-olds who will fling shit at devs until they give in to their suggestions. FC and Reika are examples of this.

 

[Strikingwolf]

I haven't read the thread, but I fully agree. I hate the simplicity of RF mods. The reason this argument in particular

I've only skimmed the thread so sorry if this was mentioned but people should bear in mind that RF itself isn't really a thing, it's an API. The only thing that should remain constant is it's value relative to other forms of power(IE 1MJ=10RF), beyond that mod-makers are free to implement it any way they see fit. Someone could make dynamos that produce like engines and will explode if unattended or cables that lose power with distance. It's not the fault of RF that devs have chosen to copy TE's implementation.

fails is because of the community input that will happen if someone does make this. Also, someone could just use EnderIO cables instead of the new mod. Thus it would be easier to just make your own system than deal with that shit

Edit:

Actually, it is in a way. We would have seen a complex RF mod y now, but the RF community will rip it to shreds with "RF is supposed to be simple." Before you say that they could just ignore them, the MC community seems to be comprised of two-year-olds who will fling shit at devs until they give in to their suggestions. FC and Reika are examples of this.

you ninja

 

[trajing]

So after reading this thread, I am very confused what exactly most of the posters in this thread are even going on about. You don't like the power-transfer system of TE4. Yay. So where exactly was it stated that.....

• Railcraft and Forestry are losing leaky power
• You are now forced to use power storage
• The old MJ playstyle is dead

NOWHERE. None of that was EVER stated in Covert's post. What has been stated is that Forestry and eventually Railcraft will use the RF API. That's it. We'll very likely still have leaky power, and if you can just choose not to use power storage absolutely NOTHING has changed whatsoever except you no longer have gates. And at this rate BC itself will probably transfer over to RF and then EVERYTHING will be normal. In fact, if BC indeed transfers you could technically use every RF mod just like you would with the current MJ versions of Forestry and RC.

This ENTIRE THREAD is based around the idea that RF is forced to be lossless and safe. That idea is wrong.

I'm afraid Not_Steve has rubbed off on me. Could you please not use CAPS in a debate? It seems unprofessional and conveys like you are yelling.

 

[Zenthon_127]

I'm afraid Not_Steve has rubbed off on me. Could you please not use CAPS in a debate? It seems unprofessional and conveys like you are yelling.

Fair enough. Bold it is.

At any rate, nobody has tried to make a complex RF mod, so we are going off of hypothetical situations here. It's not like no other modder has been able to stand up to internet mobs before. Reika and FC are perfect examples of those who have, actually.

 

[Deftscythe]

Not going to quote two posts for one answer so to the people who just quoted me; RF community? What?

There is clearly a desire for this kind of content so why wouldn't the people who want it use it? How would it be any different from gregtech? The people who want RF to be less simple can use the dynamos/conduits/whathaveyou from the proposed mod, and the people who don't can stick to TE/EnderIO etc.