Is Rotarycraft stupidly difficult or am I the stupid one?

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DriftinFool

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Reika has said he is done updating for 1.6.4 and is working on the 1.7 version. The most recent info I saw from him was sharing a jar with all his mods in it trying to figure out a loading bug. I honestly wouldn't expect it to be very long at all considering how fast he puts out updates.
 

dalekslayer96

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You can, but if you do not have the knowledge to back up your arguments, I can just as easily - and will - write off everything you say as unfounded and not worth considering.
Reika and his bitchslaps...[DOUBLEPOST=1409197641][/DOUBLEPOST]
Reika has said he is done updating for 1.6.4 and is working on the 1.7 version. The most recent info I saw from him was sharing a jar with all his mods in it trying to figure out a loading bug. I honestly wouldn't expect it to be very long at all considering how fast he puts out updates.
I wish he'd Chromaticraft for 1.6.4...
 

Reika

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Reika has said he is done updating for 1.6.4 and is working on the 1.7 version. The most recent info I saw from him was sharing a jar with all his mods in it trying to figure out a loading bug. I honestly wouldn't expect it to be very long at all considering how fast he puts out updates.
Yes, it is coming soon. Probably last week.
 

PonyKuu

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One, are you not trying to argue for some sort of change? After all, what would be the purpose of complaining aside from such an intent? Whining for the sake of it?You can, but if you do not have the knowledge to back up your arguments, I can just as easily - and will - write off everything you say as unfounded and not worth considering.
If you ask about stuff like exploding performance engine and other minor-but-annoying things, yes. I want it to be changed. As for magnetostatic engines, I think you wouldn't do so anyways. But I have to point again the fact that if someone doesn't agree with your design, it doesn't mean that he's stupid or understands nothing. I posted plenty of arguments before.
I know you didn't suggest it, I'm just saying asking Reika to convert to RF isn't dumb, just rude and arrogant (which is worse then dumb IMO). It would be like asking Azanor to have his machines ran off RF and to do away with that essentia/ vis stuff and that the golems should be robots.

Thing is people using the old magneos' where not actually playing RoC they where avoiding a good part of what RotaryCraft is about, managing rotational energy IS RoC the fancy machines are just rewards for doing things right.
Then again you have slight point, tiering the magneos' won't get more people to use RoC it will likely get people to drop it completely. That being said Reika has taken the less popular but more dignified rout by keeping his mod within his vision. He shouldn't have to compromise his design philosophy just because some one decided it should be in a FTB pack.
People who power IC2 grid with power converters also skipping a good portion of IC2 and its progression. Does anyone give a shit about? If I want to use only a couple of machines from a mod, I won't make a huge infrastructure. Oh, OK, you nerfed magnetostatics so people will build some RoC equipment, use it a couple of times, and return back to RF. Happy now? You see, as I said earlier, it's not the end of the world, but that attitude "you use my mod wrong" is the thing to worry about. Next step is "early wood is too easy because it allows to make my awesome machines faster, so let's nerf it".
Also by jet engine do you mean Gas Turbine? If so Gas turbines can be used to run an extractor solo, it doesn't even need gearing even though doing so will get you more speed if you use a 2:1 ratio set to speed. You will still meet the max torque requirement but also double the speed. As it appears that more torque doesn't seem to affect the operation time doubling the speed is what you want.
See that's the only flaw with RoC; it takes thinking/ investigation, which to me is a facet but if you want to be cynically honest it's considered a flaw these days.
Yes I meant gasturbine, and I didn't even finish the sentence, because I was and sleepy. :/
As for thinking/investigation, there are a number of mods that require it, not only RoC.
Huh. So do you also want to be able to make a redstone energy cell without having to make hardened glass? How about a resonant strongboxes without having to have the headache of getting to and making endurium ingots. And how about that quantum armor. Having to go through the IC2 tech tree so you can scan and replicate iridium is probably too much work too then? Why don't mod makers just make it so you can gather some metal and a couple of shiny rocks and be able to make anything in any mod?
Almost every mod out there that is widely used and respected has tiered content. Why? Because you need to work towards something. The vast majority that really complain loudly are usually the ones who have memorized the way to power through mod progression using inter mod exploiting. Would see them hop on the server I was on... last fall? They'd hop in, power though the minimum they had to to get "god mode" power and tons of resources. Less than a week later, they're complaining in chat that they're bored and there isn't enough to do. "It's too easy." Is commonly one of the last things they say before dissapearing. Or... they start looking up dupe bugs I and the other admins hadn't found yet, and ways around grief prevention.
Energy storage is not energy converter. As you see I don't complain about machine costs or requirements. It's the artifical difficulties that force player to do something he doesn't want to. The recipes are hardly have any sence (realism?), they are screaming "PROVE THAT YOU MADE MY MACHINES!!!". Okay, I made a pulsejet furnace, that has like 2 other uses, one of which is decorative, and second one is very inconvenient, now what? I makes you feel better or what? Make people WANT to make your furnace, not FORCE them to do so.
I have to disagree. You don't have the right to complain about a mod not being what you think it should be. It is not your mod. You do not pay Reika to make it. You do not have to use it. I hate Thaumcraft. I don't go cry to Azanor, I uninstall it and let the people who like it play it as the mod author meant. I am in no position to demand changes. Why would I expect a mod, that I don't like, to change into something I like when it goes against the concept of the mod?I choose to use RoC over other mods because of the difficulty. Having to have a calculator handy when setting things up is not a negative thing to me. There are alot of people who feel the same way.
The only thing you have a right to complain about is a bug. As far as that goes, I would have to say Reika is one of the most involved with the community of all the mod makers I see. He is on multiple forums, always answers questions, implements player suggestions that actually fit the vision of his mod, and constantly updates to handle balance and bugs. I wish even 10% of the mod makers out there were as in touch with us, the players, as he is.
TLDR No one makes you play any mod, even if it is included in a modpack. Don't like it, don't use it. Not every mod is for every player.
I have the right to write everything that's not against forum rules. If you think that I'm violating the rules, click the "Report" button. Otherwise, go ahead and stop telling people what to say or not to say.
 

Ieldra

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I asked people somewhere in these threads - what do they use jet engines for.
I had been trying to avoid the gas turbines because getting the resources for jet fuel production is so complicated, but once I got around to it, I ended up powering my extractor with one and never looked back. And it was the tiering of the magnetostatics that brought me to that point, because I thought "OK, I need jet fuel anyway to run the pulse jet furnace I need to make the tier 4 upgrades. I might as well try a few other things."

My main problem with magnetostatic nerfs is actually neither the tiering nor the lubricant (though I find the latter annoying), but the fact that between v24 and v25, the engines were changed to have a warmup period. Before, I could nicely integrate RotaryCraft production machines into my ME network for on-demand autocrafting. Now that doesn't work anymore because the engines take so long to warm up. Now there is no more RotaryCraft engine with a power of 8 MW and up that doesn't have a warmup period, and that managed what the other nerfs didn't: I'm trying to find ways to avoid RotaryCraft machines for autocrafting, where before I had actively looked for ways to include them. The other nerfs didn't prevent me from doing what I wanted with these engines, it just took more work to get there. It may be annoying in any single case but ultimately I can live with it. That last one, though, is crippling, and I have only myself to blame, since I think it was I who mentioned "no warm-up" as an advantage of magnetostatics. Hopefully, next time I manage to keep silent.
 

Shevron

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I just updated from 25d to 25z, and I am NOT a happy camper.

Lubricant in Magnetostatic engines? Seriously?
 

Ieldra

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Energy storage is not energy converter. As you see I don't complain about machine costs or requirements. It's the artifical difficulties that force player to do something he doesn't want to. The recipes are hardly have any sence (realism?), they are screaming "PROVE THAT YOU MADE MY MACHINES!!!". Okay, I made a pulsejet furnace, that has like 2 other uses, one of which is decorative, and second one is very inconvenient, now what? I makes you feel better or what? Make people WANT to make your furnace, not FORCE them to do so.
This is exactly the same as having to make an induction smelter in TE in order to make the hardened glass you need for the redstone energy cell, or having to make a magma crucible and a fluid transposer to make the resonant ender for the tesseracts. Resonant Ender has about three uses as well. Why is that a problem in RotaryCraft when it isn't in TE?

Well, it *is* a bigger problem in RotaryCraft, but the fact that you need a new machine to make the components for another one is not it, rather than the fact that running this new machine - to use a often-quoted example, the pulse jet furnace - requires making jet fuel which has about the most annoying raw material requirement in all of modded Minecraft, while you can just slap the Induction Furnace, Magma Crucible and Fluid transposer into your existing RF power network.

Compare this to the other machine you need for the magnetostatic tier 4 upgrade, the friction heater. Running this is as easy as RotaryCraft ever gets. Just keep an eye on the power and you're good. You may *want* to use microturbines to power it (IIRC you would need two), but a chain of tier 3 magnetostatics can do it as well.

I say the latter example is about what you get in most tech mods, including TE. Standard tech tiering is not a problem (TM). Where I agree is that nested requirements like for the pulse jet furnace can result in extreme time sinks that are a real put-off for people who just want to dip into a mod. I think I spent more time creating the production facilities for the raw materials for jet fuel than with everything else in RotaryCraft combined (excluding ReactorCraft).

If I made a public modpack and wanted to include RotaryCraft, I would ask Reika for one thing: the permission to create an alternative, significantly easier recipe for jet fuel (using the same machine, and being less efficient so that there is still motivation to use the complicated one eventually). That wouldn't break the tiering in any way but make it so much less of a hassle that it becomes possible to "just explore" RotaryCraft.
 

PonyKuu

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@leldra
Well, it maybe kinda the same, but it feels way different because it was not added with the only purpose of stopping people from messing with other mods.
As for resonant ender, maybe it has only three uses, but not the magma crucible/liquid transposer that you can and probably will use for other stuff. As you see, I am not complaining about slurry/solutions having only one use (I don't like them clugging the NEI, though), but about a machine that's basicaly useless other than that. Resonant ender is a resource that you can make, use, and never make it again.
 

ljfa

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There's still the fuel enhancer, but it has basically the same annoying requirements and depends on Buildcraft.

This is exactly the same as having to make an induction smelter in TE in order to make the hardened glass you need for the redstone energy cell, or having to make a magma crucible and a fluid transposer to make the resonant ender for the tesseracts. Resonant Ender has about three uses as well. Why is that a problem in RotaryCraft when it isn't in TE?
The difference is that most machines on RF only draw energy on demand, but it's not that easy for RoC machines. One problem is the spin up time or even worse, the heat up time. You can't use a 67 MW friction heated furnace for on-demand smelting without either having a warm up time or wasting a lot of power.
 

malicious_bloke

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There is one very simple solution to warmup periods.

Never turn anything off.

If you're using magnetostatics, just have the RF supply work persistently.

I never turn my fission reactors off, fuel production and the entire tech tree of subsidiary systems work sustainably without oversight from me. Output is matched closely to input so I never have to worry about running out of power in my batteries or overfilling them and wasting the excess.

As for jet fuel production, it's not actually that difficult to automate. Most of the bits can be grown, the only slight wrinkle is slot selection for inserting items into the fractionation machine but there's about 3 mods that can do that for you.

To automate a thing is to offer up a sacrifice unto Colin.

Praises be to Colin!
 
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Ieldra

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@leldra
Well, it maybe kinda the same, but it feels way different because it was not added with the only purpose of stopping people from messing with other mods.
As for resonant ender, maybe it has only three uses, but not the magma crucible/liquid transposer that you can and probably will use for other stuff. As you see, I am not complaining about slurry/solutions having only one use (I don't like them clugging the NEI, though), but about a machine that's basicaly useless other than that. Resonant ender is a resource that you can make, use, and never make it again.
How do you think I deal with magnetostatic upgrades? I make a stack or two of them, just in case, and never need to bother with them again. I also severly overproduce lubricant. A very small somewhat accelerated farm is good for everything except ReactorCraft turbines. For those you need a riduculously overpowered medium-sized canola farm.

Also, I did mention the warm-up period as a crippling feature of v25+ magnetostatics that's more annoying than any other nerf in one of my previous posts. I definitely agree about that. Generally, I think RotaryCraft machines are better suited for batch processing, but to remove the capability for on-demand activity from the only engine that had it, that comes very close to deliberately making things difficult for no sufficient reason.
 
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PonyKuu

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As for jet fuel production, it's not actually that difficult to automate. Most of the bits can be grown, the only slight wrinkle is slot selection for inserting items into the fractionation machine but there's about 3 mods that can do that for you!
Main issue for me to do that is limited supply of soul sand. Unfortunately jet-powered borer doesn't give me enough to use two other jets constantly.
How do you think I deal with magnetostatic upgrades? I make a stack or two of them, just in case, and never need to bother with them again.
And you have a useless pulsejet furnace after that...
BTW, what's the heck is a pulsejet furnace? I know about pulsejet engines, but furnace?
 

ljfa

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Most of the bits can be grown, the only slight wrinkle is slot selection for inserting items into the fractionation machine but there's about 3 mods that can do that for you.
You don't need that. The slots won't overfill. You can simply use a precision export bus with the six items.

Also, I did mention the warm-up period as a crippling feature of v25+ magnetostatics that's more annoying than any other nerf in one of my previous posts. I definitely agree about that. Generally, I think RotaryCraft machines are better suited for batch processing, but to remove the capability for on-demand activity from the only engine that had it, that comes very close to deliberately making things difficult for no sufficient reason.
Do the motors from ElectriCraft have a spin-up time? If not then there's a solution. But heater and friction heater still take some time to warm up.
 

Ieldra

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Main issue for me to do that is limited supply of soul sand. Unfortunately jet-powered borer doesn't give me enough to use two other jets constantly.
I use Magical Crops for all the rarer resources, including magma cream, blaze powder and soul sand.

And you have a useless pulsejet furnace after that...
Just as you have a useless Magma Crucible if you produce all your resonant ender and destabilized Redstone in advance. Also, not useless. First, it's used to make blast glass which is needed for reactors, and according to the handbook it can also make steel faster, though I haven't figured out how to do that.
 
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PonyKuu

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For those you need a riduculously overpowered medium-sized canola farm.
Speaking of which, is it still impossible to harvest canola with MFR? If it is, why so?[DOUBLEPOST=1409217628][/DOUBLEPOST]
I use Magical Crops for all the rarer resources, including magma cream, blaze powder and soul sand.
Magical crops is... Magical crops.
Just as you have a useless Magma Crucible if you produce all your resonant ender and destabilized Redstone in advance. Also, not useless. First, it's used to make blast glass which is needed for reactors, and according to the handbook it can also make steel faster, though I haven't figured out how to do that.
Magma crucible has way more uses than that. Making lava, redstone stuff, glowstone luminators. As for reactors using blast glass, didn't know about that, sorry. But still, Magma Crucible requires way less infrastructure to support and I feel like it's always useful.
 

malicious_bloke

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You don't need that. The slots won't overfill. You can simply use a precision export bus with the six items

Nnnnope.

The slots on the fractionator are specific to each item. Precision export buses tend to fill things in the wrong order and on occasion i've found they bug out and refuse to export when I manually sort the order out in the GUI.

I needed a cunning arrangement of LP to manage it, but I finally got it working.
 

Ieldra

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You don't need that. The slots won't overfill. You can simply use a precision export bus with the six items.
This is a recent change and, I believe, not widely known. Even without it, one Logistics Pipes' supplier pipe solves this problem neatly. Use a dedicated ME interface to export the raw materials from your ME network.

Do the motors from ElectriCraft have a spin-up time? If not then there's a solution. But heater and friction heater still take some time to warm up.
They have not. ElectriCraft is, however, a late game mod, and there's the additional problem that TE and EnderIO RF cables support covers and facades, while Reika's mods generally don't. That's actually the one thing I would like to see added the most: some form of cover or facade mechanic.

Speaking of which, is it still impossible to harvest canola with MFR? If it is, why so?
I think the problem is on MFR's side. Its creator would need to add support but hasn't done so.