Then it shall surely be interesting to see the court case, to see how it goes.
Your thoughts on the Technic Platform?
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Then it shall surely be interesting to see the court case, to see how it goes.
I took french for 3 years now, and...wow I can't imagine calling a girl a rifle. I'm not the "redneck" type
Bah, lets hope all the girls worth being complimented that live in france (or anywhere, for that matter) speak english...
There is an analogous thread on the Technic forums here: http://forums.technicpack.net/threads/mod-permissions.39842/page-4#post-329705
Not sure about all mods, but a modpack of only mods which are open source would actually be very nice. It could help promote open source software and be available as an alternative for those who use and wish to support mods that are "free as in freedom". Personally I have nothing against closed-source mods and find many of them among the best mods ever made, and respect their rights for complete creative control of their work, but I also enjoy the benefits of open source freely available mods redistributable with few strings attached.
Many modders feel the same way and release everything they make as open source for everyone to use, modify, and redistribute. Here's a (probably very incomplete) list of some open source mods I could find, many you may recognize:
- https://github.com/MinecraftForge/MinecraftForge MMPL
- https://github.com/MinecraftForge/FML LGPL
- https://github.com/MinecraftPortCentral/MCPC-Plus LGPL + MMPL
- https://github.com/Bukkit/CraftBukkit LGPL
- https://github.com/keepcalm/BukkitForge LGPL
- https://github.com/ForgeEssentials/ForgeEssentialsMain AGPL
- https://github.com/smbarbour/MCUpdater Apache
- https://github.com/BuildCraft/BuildCraft MMPL
- https://github.com/RS485/LogisticsPipes MMPL
- https://github.com/cpw/IronChest GPLv3
- https://github.com/cpw/compactsolars/ GPLv3
- https://github.com/narc0tiq/LiquidUU MMPL
- http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2944265/mods/autobuilt/index.html Immibis Mods MIT
- https://github.com/ExtrabiomesXL/ExtrabiomesXL Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License
- https://github.com/calclavia/Universal-Electricity MMPL
- https://github.com/theoxylo/minecraft_mod_thx MIT
- https://github.com/Lordmau5/InventoryTweaks MIT
- https://github.com/LepkoQQ/EasyCrafting ?
- https://github.com/bau5/ProjectBench ?
- https://github.com/MachineMuse/MachineMusePowersuits ?
- https://github.com/Deadrik/TFCraft CCPL
- https://github.com/denoflionsx/PluginsForForestry WTFPL
- https://github.com/perky/Minechem Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
- https://github.com/pahimar/Equivalent-Exchange-3 GPLv3
The licensing terms vary but I think one could build a fairly compelling modpack only based on open source code (except of course, Minecraft itself). In fact I started to a while ago, but there wasn't the widespread selection available there is now, and its a lot of work to integrate and maintain a modpack.. (not to mention developing new mods to fill in the missing pieces), so I never released anything.
However, there are many good reasons to promote OSS. Not only for philosophical reasons but also practical reasons. Open source mods allowing forks and redistribution have a better "bus factor", as its known:
Especially with new Minecraft updates breaking mods (although hopefully FML runtime deobf in 1.5 will partly fix this), constant maintenance is required to keep a mod alive. Not everyone can commit the time to keep their project afloat forever, understandably. But with open source / free software, new developers can arise to carry the torch. We've already seen this happen with several mods: SpaceToad handed Buildcraft to SirSengir, RS485 updated Krapht's LogisticPipes, Lordmau5 took over jimeowan's InventoryTweaks, countless developers have contributed to Forge, FML, CraftBukkit, and many to IronChest, ExtraBiomesXL, etc.. and just today, ljdp (perky) passed on Minechem2 to dmillerw. Cool eh? As developer's priorities change, their code can frictionlessly shift under different ownerships. Such is the power of open source.
So, consider this a call to action.. who wants to put the time and effort into creating an awesome 100% open source Minecraft modpack? Anyone?
I remember the game genie. The first use on the NES was so clunky. Of course there were planty of video games that were not licensed in the first place eg Wisdom Tree. When the SNES came about it was more in sync with the system but that kind of modding really messed with the games.
Also lemme change my thought about Terraria. It is a super game but as many have seen by the author keeping it closed source he effectively spelled doom for his game. It is a super game that a lot can be done with but alas is it now more of a past time.
Also lemme change my thought about Terraria. It is a super game but as many have seen by the author keeping it closed source he effectively spelled doom for his game. It is a super game that a lot can be done with but alas is it now more of a past time.
I disagree, though I do not think either of us are lawyers, and I do not think either of us could make a convincing enough argument on this point to persuade the other. Which is why instead I chose to ask you to refine your argument about owning and modifying MC code, which is another key issue that I think there can be some common ground found in regards to.
I know, they are not legally required to do so, but you are not legally required to give a tip at a restaurant after an exceptional meal.
Or giving a seat to an elder person in transportations, no law requires you to do so.
But making efforts to appease the opinion often makes you appear in a much better light.
It wouldn't take that much effort to put the links, as they need to go to those pages anyway to download the said mod in the first place. Yet, that would make them support the modders way better, and would be way more accepted, at least by the people standing in the middle.
If all sides could do a little to make the whole community a better place, it would definitely benefit everyone.
As it stands now, more and more authors seems to make their mods open source, as well as to give rights to any and all mods if they can be in the credits.
Having written that, I went to double check the FTB launcher, and no, there are no links to the different mods either, just a plain list too.
So no, I don't particularly blame the plus plus pack, it's just that they write all these things about how it is legal, and forget the basic credit list that would please quite a lot of mod authors.
To me, it feels a little too much like the people that try to find holes in legislation and use them to their own advantage, it never ends well.
I think the idea they have is to deliberately be the uber bad guys. They are giving the current environment the finger, and provoking the action that will finally settle the issue.
Socially defined moral constraints that people place on themselves because society demands it. You don't tip people in Australia (I believe at least, I may be mistaken) and they've still got a society.
In regards to giving up your seat to an elderly person, that is borderline rude. Yes, it's a nice thought, but I know a lot of elderly people that would take offense with anything like that happening to them. Pride isn't something that often goes away with age.
How would it? No one is going to click those links, given a very large set of people using it and "no one" meaning "so few people that it is pretty near no one".
You're asking for extra work for no extra return for anyone involved.
Personally, I'd rather the picture of kittens and puppies asking for donations for the mod authors.
Because more and more mod authors are awakening to the simple reality that you cannot easily protect something that you're doing as a hobby, and especially not when you don't even have any real legal ground to stand on.
People make mods for one reason: They want to change the game. If people make a mod to make money, or gain fame, or whatnot, they're not making a mod; they are attempting to game the system to try and obtain something that the system does not current support.
If anything, I'd say it is someone finally standing up and saying "You know, there is no real legal reason for any of this insanity." and trying to do something about it.
That aside, I don't care either way about "goons", "SomethingAwful", or the like, but I am glad someone is doing the work, and I hope that it gets resolved to the satisfaction and future greatness of the entire community.
I would much rather play a mod made by someone who just writes mods because they enjoy the challenge of writing a mod and have fun doing it than to play a mod because they are using it as a source of income.
The modder that is doing it for fun is more likely to put out a fun constantly updated and worked on mod than somebody just looking for a quick buck.
They would constantly put out mods to make income or charge for every update.
Respect is something that can be hard to earn yet so easy to lose. I will take Flower Child as an example. From what I know, which is not a lot so please don't hang me, FC seemed to get up in arms with Yogscast for doing a spotlight on his mod. So much so that he looked a bit foolish and a good majority of their fan base disliked him.
Now from what videos I seen BTW doesn't seem to be a widely played mod (yes I know Slow and others played it) by the "big" youtube people. Like Yogs, Bebop, GameChap, Captain Sparkles, and JCVSMC. Part of it may be due to his attitude, his reactions to things, or any varity of reasons but it stands, to me again, that the wider the audience the more people can enjoy his mod.
Respect is like trust. In many cases once it is gone it can be near impossible to get it back.
EDIT:
Mero lemme clear something up. I am not talking about mod authors charging for mods. I was talking about the mod author getting a job that uses their coding skills to earn a living.
Now from what videos I seen BTW doesn't seem to be a widely played mod (yes I know Slow and others played it) by the "big" youtube people. Like Yogs, Bebop, GameChap, Captain Sparkles, and JCVSMC. Part of it may be due to his attitude, his reactions to things, or any varity of reasons but it stands, to me again, that the wider the audience the more people can enjoy his mod.
Respect is like trust. In many cases once it is gone it can be near impossible to get it back.
EDIT:
Mero lemme clear something up. I am not talking about mod authors charging for mods. I was talking about the mod author getting a job that uses their coding skills to earn a living.
That mod would not last long.
And this is how modding of other games is handled and such they don't have the politics nearly on the level we do.
It would be so much better if we all (The players and the Modders) just decided to stop throwing crap all over the place it would be a much nicer place to be without all of this "TECHNIC SUX!" and "NO FTB DOES!" and that whole war. In recent times it seems that the fire of this has been put under control for now but it will always smolder as long as this keeps up. I know the players are ready for this shit to stop. Now the modders (there are only a very small number who still keep it up) have to stop. Once those few stop, I bet there can be peace in the community.(An excellent example of this is what CovertJagger [did I spell that right?] just did.)
Edit for the ninja post: I wholeheartedly agree with you about respect and flowerchild is a great example of what can happen when you do stupid crap like that.
It's good to see that for the most part everybody is being very civil here. FTB loves to devolve into petty fighting, so mad props to all of you guys.
Daemonblue, please, express your opinion, but remember that you are not a lawyer, and your understanding of this issue in a legal sense, like literally everybody else, is zip, zilch, none. Don't talk legalese on a topic without any legal precedents or procedures.
The Plus Plus Pack is not trying to please a lot of mod authors, because in this community, you need to please them all or everybody will hate you. Solution: don't bother with any at all. Saying this, Powercrystals (who makes MFR, Netherores, flat bedrock, and others), Machinemuse (MPS) and King Lemming are all active members of our little community.
So far, they have done a damn good job of it too. We got CovertJaguar super pissed at us, and his resultant angry stuff was seen by a whole ton of people. Minecraft modding is a total cesspool with very few exceptions, but hey whatever, it's a game about virtual blocks. If you get to the point where your hobby making free stuff on the internet is making you angry, you should probably take a step back.
Daemonblue, please, express your opinion, but remember that you are not a lawyer, and your understanding of this issue in a legal sense, like literally everybody else, is zip, zilch, none. Don't talk legalese on a topic without any legal precedents or procedures.
The Plus Plus Pack is not trying to please a lot of mod authors, because in this community, you need to please them all or everybody will hate you. Solution: don't bother with any at all. Saying this, Powercrystals (who makes MFR, Netherores, flat bedrock, and others), Machinemuse (MPS) and King Lemming are all active members of our little community.
So far, they have done a damn good job of it too. We got CovertJaguar super pissed at us, and his resultant angry stuff was seen by a whole ton of people. Minecraft modding is a total cesspool with very few exceptions, but hey whatever, it's a game about virtual blocks. If you get to the point where your hobby making free stuff on the internet is making you angry, you should probably take a step back.
I agree with Entropy. It is still backwards thinking to me on some cases but it has to be looked at from a different angle. I been in a few hobbies where getting to serious on it just ruins one's own health. Stress of any magnitude is not good. Heck let us look at some other things were super tight control actually harmed more then good.
Metallica did a huge thing with Napster back in the day. For anyone too young Metallica is a heavy metal band that was super big up until the late 90's. Lars Ulrich got upset at Napster for the songs being sold. Greed can do a lot of things and in this case many saw Metallica be total D-Bags. If album sales show it more then likely caused enough issues that it effecting their work.
EDIT:
I got a better example. Dungeons and Dragons. Back in the 80s a company named TSR pretty much was the king of table top rpgs. D&D was so huge they made a cartoon show for it. Now due to TSR being run stupidly and some top people wanting too much control the company when kaput. Wizards of the Coast got the license for it but things happend, I don't know what, and Hasbro bought it all.
What did gamers get? A solid 3.x edition that, with open game license, gavea huge variety of genres and modules to use. Since D&D isn't Pokemon as a cash cow it got scaled back. Gamers got 4th edition which, well, it tanked as a rewrite didn't help a dying art form. 5th edition is supposedly coming but I am not holding my breath on it.
RIP updates to D&D.
Metallica did a huge thing with Napster back in the day. For anyone too young Metallica is a heavy metal band that was super big up until the late 90's. Lars Ulrich got upset at Napster for the songs being sold. Greed can do a lot of things and in this case many saw Metallica be total D-Bags. If album sales show it more then likely caused enough issues that it effecting their work.
EDIT:
I got a better example. Dungeons and Dragons. Back in the 80s a company named TSR pretty much was the king of table top rpgs. D&D was so huge they made a cartoon show for it. Now due to TSR being run stupidly and some top people wanting too much control the company when kaput. Wizards of the Coast got the license for it but things happend, I don't know what, and Hasbro bought it all.
What did gamers get? A solid 3.x edition that, with open game license, gavea huge variety of genres and modules to use. Since D&D isn't Pokemon as a cash cow it got scaled back. Gamers got 4th edition which, well, it tanked as a rewrite didn't help a dying art form. 5th edition is supposedly coming but I am not holding my breath on it.
RIP updates to D&D.
I've already ponted this out, but whatever.
Those were in direct response to their proclaimed defences that they could use with the examples they gave on the linked site. They cannot claim what they're doing is fair use because it falls outside of the scope of fair use, as mentioned before. That's one of their arguements shot down right there (and even then you can't say it's fair use defensively, you have to prove it in court even if everyone knows it's fair use beforehand).
Then they state:
The case that they reference is about two companies that make a similar toy based on the same Disney character. In this case neither toy added any significant changes to the design from the original and thus was not seen as a copyrightable derivative work. This doesn't really apply to this though as many mods can be seen to make significant changes or additions to the base game - why would we download them if they added effectively nothing? So both of their defences are rather poor and don't help their case out at all as they don't really relate to the subject at hand.
It doesn't take much legal understanding to notice these two major flaws in their little defence, which was my main intent in pointing it out. The conclusions drawn in the previous post were my interpretation of current case law which very well could be changed in the future if something such as this went to court. However, the likelyhood of that happening is very low due to the cost, effort, and time it takes to deal with the courts and lawyers as well as bad press.
Now with that out of the way, why are we even discussing this on these forums to begin with? This has effectively nothing to do with the FTB pack.
What about Optifine? That mod adds nothing to the game, except for some animation configuration (lol rhymes).
As much as I would love to disagree, I can't, not on this point at least.
But the main thing that pains me in this whole situation is that there are not that much great modders on Minecraft.
Sure, there are good mods here and there, but I am talking about mods that change the scene as a whole by giving a big push to quality.
Early on (mid-end beta phase), there were 4 main mods that pushed the scene forward, at least in my eyes (BC, RP, IC and BTW).
Strangely enough, the people responsible for starting the whole Forge project are the same base.
As time went, we saw many good sub mods for those (or at least the ones that authorized it by giving an API to work on). One of those became one of the big names today, I am talking about Forestry.
It pushed forward some other ways to interact with automations, with the relatively smart interfaces.
Logistics pipes also came around that time, trying to fill the need for real automation.
Then, we need to wait for things like Thaumcraft, with its research system, and Thermal Expansion, with the ability to configure the input and output sides.
Thaumcraft and XyCraft, even if some might argue that it is a little overdone and useless, are also trying to get things going for things looking better than just a texture applied to a block. Sure, there were other that did some improvements, even some mods dedicated to it, like the awesome lighting system that I never remember the name off, but to me, it feels like those two are actively including this to their gameplay.
As for the World generation, we have a lot of Biomes mods, some that create new dimensions, like Twilight Forest, or Mystcraft.
Some mods also try to get more life to the world, be it by adding animals and mobs, or other humanoids to interract with.
And let's not forget MCP, Forge and modloader, as they also helped quite a bit in making mods "easy" to make and install.
It might sound like there are a great deal of mods out there, but when one is missing, we don't have an other one pop up out off nowhere to replace it.
Just looking at the mess that happened while RP was updating is enough proof for that.
If you want more, try counting how many mods rely on BC for various things, be it the power system, or the liquids API (being rewritten and integrated to forge). BC had the chance to have two talented people take on the continuation, but it could have ended in just an other mod that is just ported, version after version.
When I see that, I get a little afraid when I think that there are actually not that many modders that have the talent and are willing to make great mods.
I know that we should not just excuse whatever thing they might do wrong, but they are still quite precious for the community, and when I see some taking extra time to code in DRMs, I can't help but think about what they could have been improving instead, if they were not raging over some petty fights over who gets to play their mod.
But modders are humans, and we all do stupid things, so is it really worth getting as far as needing to have the law by our side, when all it is about is a game?
In an ideal world, every mod would be open source, there would be a Nexus, or even a Steam workshop for Minecraft, making it easy to get mods and packs, while giving proper credit to every person that made this possible.
Yeah, instead, we got Curse, no official API, and forums and websites all over the place.
Anyway, wall of text, content: 0...
In the case of optifine it adds a lot in the way of changing the visuals of the game and how well it runs. It's not as straightforward like a mod such as Redpower 2, but it does drasitcally change the way the game runs. The fact that some people regard the mod as a necessity to actually play Minecraft says a lot about how big the changes are - if it didn't change it in a big way people wouldn't care all that much about it.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of copyright law as it is myself and would love to see some changes, but I also don't like people being disrespectful of someone's wishes and then spitting in their face.
One of the big problems with having English as a first language is the unfortunate feeling that one needn't learn any other language because pretty much anywhere you go, you'll find an English speaker. I felt the same, and in regards French, still feel that way. I don't see any possibility in any future imaginable where I would need to learn French grammar, or French at all for that matter. My Girlfriend is Finnish and can speak Finnish, Swedish and English perfectly ( her English is superior to 99% of English people and 100% of American people[she can spell colour]) She is the only reason I feel the need and want to learn another language (Swedish) so that I can communicate with her non-English speaking parents. Sorry, I just ranted off topic about an offhand comment you made... oops XD
I can see that most threads have two topics.
This one's just copyrighted laws and language (which seems to pop up in a lot of threads
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