Xycraft Multitanks and Lag.

[Malkuth]

Immibis' infinitubes have been a really nice alternative to RP stuff. Once I get RedNet in my hands...

...

I'm suddenly questioning why I haven't updated to 1.5 yet. If IC2 updates soon I think I'll do just that.

Me too... If things don't happen soon I will be making that update.. Just its such a pain in the butt to keep up with everything.[DOUBLEPOST=1368643991][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah redpower is one of the laggiest things ever i've been rebuilding my machines to be RPless and slowly my tps is going up.

I have not built a single redpower thing in my current game.. And its amazing the frame rates I still have..

 

[Malkuth]

I really dont see the problem here. Someone claimed that Mindcrack guys are targeting a mod as the source of the lag, but they arent blaming XyCraft, they're blaming an element of it. And again if its solved the problem I really don't see the issue. Maybe Guude dealt with the problem in an over dramatic way, but he does seem to know a lot about the server side stuff.

It could very well be the issue.. Maybe its one of those things that when you have 120 tanks things start to tank real fast.. Only have 20-60 your all set... You never no..

The biggest stink I think people are making is his attitude about the situation.. His tweets suggest he been in contact with the mod author and they are fixing it.. The problem is the Mod Author tweeted him back asking him wtf you talking about?
He totally dismisses Redpower as any sort of problem with server lag.. Etc.. Even suggesting in a tweet that Redpower Microblocks don't cause server lag.. Only client. Which is incorrect... And there are a few mindcrackers that have whole houses made out of that stuff.

In the long run killing 100+ tanks might help the lag.... So will killing 100 Machines, or 100 Lights, or 100 mob spawners....

 

[Redweevil]

It could very well be the issue.. Maybe its one of those things that when you have 120 tanks things start to tank real fast.. Only have 20-60 your all set... You never no..

The biggest stink I think people are making is his attitude about the situation.. His tweets suggest he been in contact with the mod author and they are fixing it.. The problem is the Mod Author tweeted him back asking him wtf you talking about?
He totally dismisses Redpower as any sort of problem with server lag.. Etc.. Even suggesting in a tweet that Redpower Microblocks don't cause server lag.. Only client. Which is incorrect... And there are a few mindcrackers that have whole houses made out of that stuff.

In the long run killing 100+ tanks might help the lag.... So will killing 100 Machines, or 100 Lights, or 100 mob spawners....

You may be right about killing 100 other things would fix the problem, but there has been no actual proof to whether the tanks genuinely cause lag or not. Claiming to have a lot of them on a server isnt really proof either given the claim that it was only when they were full. And the mod author claiming theres nothing wrong with the code is a completely biased opinion why would he ever confess to writing bad code that creates tons of lag? I just want to see hard evidence either way proving that xytanks are/arent the problem rather than peoples claims.

Well the problem is it hasnt fixed the problem.
On the topic of the mindcrack server i dont know the details but i t could be that the cpu isnt up to par or they havent tried something like the tickthreading mod that does work very well at getting the tps up.

Well supposedly it has fixed the problem, or at least Guude considers the server fixed and less laggy.

 

[Malkuth]

You may be right about killing 100 other things would fix the problem, but there has been no actual proof to whether the tanks genuinely cause lag or not. Claiming to have a lot of them on a server isnt really proof either given the claim that it was only when they were full. And the mod author claiming theres nothing wrong with the code is a completely biased opinion why would he ever confess to writing bad code that creates tons of lag? I just want to see hard evidence either way proving that xytanks are/arent the problem rather than peoples claims.





Well supposedly it has fixed the problem, or at least Guude considers the server fixed and less laggy.

Still not sure about that one.. BdoubleO newest video still has the lag, and he specifically mentions tanks, and Chunk loaders have been disabled. And its clear as day in his video how bad it is. He even mentions guude and GenericB staying up all night fixing the problem...

So the band has not stopped playing yet on the Mindcrack server.

Maybe they should start listening to the fans suggesting what it is.. Including a very good video in this very thread that points out a redpower Dupe Problem that this persons server had very similar to Mindcrack problem.. Even the same Pack.

 

[Redweevil]

Still not sure about that one.. BdoubleO newest video still has the lag, and he specifically mentions tanks, and Chunk loaders have been disabled. And its clear as day in his video how bad it is. He even mentions guude and GenericB staying up all night fixing the problem...

So the band has not stopped playing yet on the Mindcrack server.

Maybe they should start listening to the fans suggesting what it is.. Including a very good video in this very thread that points out a redpower Dupe Problem that this persons server had very similar to Mindcrack problem.. Even the same Pack.

I saw that video but im assuming that it pre-dates Guude's tweet saying the problems fixed. The problem with the Redpower dupe problem is that the way its set up makes no sense (if memory serves, I watched it on reddit a while ago), isn't it a Retriever attached to a chest pumping into engines? That seems kinda pointless.

 

[Malkuth]

I saw that video but im assuming that it pre-dates Guude's tweet saying the problems fixed. The problem with the Redpower dupe problem is that the way its set up makes no sense (if memory serves, I watched it on reddit a while ago), isn't it a Retriever attached to a chest pumping into engines? That seems kinda pointless.

Ya I don't understand it either.. But I also don't understand a lot of what some of the Mindcrackers do.. LOL... So its not that far out there to think somewhere one of em has a mess. They don't know or realize they do..

 

[DoctorOr]

I really dont see the problem here. Someone claimed that Mindcrack guys are targeting a mod as the source of the lag, but they arent blaming XyCraft, they're blaming an element of it. And again if its solved the problem I really don't see the issue.

The problem is two fold. First, they're just wholly wrong, and so it hasn't solved the problem. Second, they're presenting a call to action by suggesting/telling people to rip apart tanks, etc.

The combination is worse than either of the above in a vacuum. For example, I suggest everybody set fire to their redpower setups. This is because I'm correct when I point out it causes massive lag issues (as well as dupe, and crash servers)

Maybe Guude dealt with the problem in an over dramatic way, but he does seem to know a lot about the server side stuff.

I presumed he did, based on his programmer experience. This event has shown he doesn't.

 

[Redweevil]

The problem is two fold. First, they're just wholly wrong, and so it hasn't solved the problem. Second, they're presenting a call to action by suggesting/telling people to rip apart tanks, etc.

The combination is worse than either of the above in a vacuum. For example, I suggest everybody set fire to their redpower setups. This is because I'm correct when I point out it causes massive lag issues (as well as dupe, and crash servers)


I presumed he did, based on his programmer experience. This event has shown he doesn't.

Well I assume we'll find out whether its been fixed or not soon enough. Guude considers it fixed but due to UHC not many FTB videos have been uploaded recently so its impossible to tell if the lags gone other than tweets indicating it has.

And when it comes to redpower I always worry this will turn into another Tekkit style witchhunt, but this time not based around Buildcraft.

Anyway as I said only time will tell

Edit: From Docm's recent video a lot of the lag seems to have gone, inventories opening instantly and being able to pick up blocks etc.

 

[Exasperation]

I saw that video but im assuming that it pre-dates Guude's tweet saying the problems fixed. The problem with the Redpower dupe problem is that the way its set up makes no sense (if memory serves, I watched it on reddit a while ago), isn't it a Retriever attached to a chest pumping into engines? That seems kinda pointless.

It's possible to duplicate (heh) the bug with other RP setups. I had the same thing happen with a T5 soul shard that was used in conjunction with transposers to collect mob drops - pretty much the same as the mob spawner setups that I've seen in one or two of the mindcrackers' videos. Fortunately, I caught it a lot earlier than these guys did - at only about 65k items total, but that was in the space of a couple of minutes and it could easily have been much worse.

 

[slay_mithos]

You know, breaking tanks is not the only thing they did.

They also disabled/broke all chunk loaders, so all the bases are no longer loaded.

Of course that would make the server less laggy, I don't even know why they didn't even consider that.

 

[jeff9219]

Hey, my take is it is a mixture of alot of this things, there are alot of mistakes made that veteran modded players know, items in pipes, Guude spilling items everywhere, etc. etc. im surprised that server is alive. also where is slowpoke or soaryn's comment on the matter? we are getting informed by the wrong people. Covert have you watched much of mindcrack? if not take a look at Guudes system and let me know what you think. Also these guys need to talk to mr CPW!

 

[ThemsAllTook]

Generikb put up a video with lots of details about their investigation:

Seemingly, their problems were coming from a combination of Xycraft tanks, chickens in water, long Buildcraft waterproof pipes (the ones carrying biomass at spawn) running into unloaded chunks, and the way ChickenChunks disposes of orphan chunks. After addressing these issues, the server appears to be running very smoothly. Nebris, Mhykol, and Pakratt also had some pretty big contraptions running that were a bit suspicious and may have been contributing to the problem.

 

[Malkuth]

Hey, my take is it is a mixture of alot of this things, there are alot of mistakes made that veteran modded players know, items in pipes, Guude spilling items everywhere, etc. etc. im surprised that server is alive. also where is slowpoke or soaryn's comment on the matter? we are getting informed by the wrong people. Covert have you watched much of mindcrack? if not take a look at Guudes system and let me know what you think. Also these guys need to talk to mr CPW!

Soaryn did respond to guudes tweet... And it was not a flattering response. You can find the tweet in this thread page 2 I think.

 

[DoctorOr]

Generikb put up a video with lots of details about their investigation:

He's showing a ton more lag than we ever saw on Advancing, and everybody there had xycraft tanks (I personally had about 10 large ones)

All the benefit they've seen were by modifying chickenchunks config.

Seemingly, their problems were coming from a combination of Xycraft tanks, chickens in water, long Buildcraft waterproof pipes (the ones carrying biomass at spawn) running into unloaded chunks, and the way ChickenChunks disposes of orphan chunks. After addressing these issues, the server appears to be running very smoothly. Nebris, Mhykol, and Pakratt also had some pretty big contraptions running that were a bit suspicious and may have been contributing to the problem.

Yeah, "three chickens in water" identified as a lag cause. This was not a useful diagnosis. They're making a ton of unproven, irrational leaps of logic.

I find it funny that in all this "what happens if you do this, what happens if you do this", no attempt at redpower - something that has been independently identified by many as a lag causer - was ever engaged in.

 

[zbeeblebrox]

See, I think that was way more thorough than a lot of people here were assuming. Just because they do their LPs blind doesn't mean that they're blind, guys. Yeesh

no attempt at redpower - something that has been independently identified by many as a lag causer - was ever engaged in.

Uhh...did you even watch the video? He demonstrates how redpower was contributing to the lag about 16 minutes in.

 

[DoctorOr]

Uhh...did you even watch the video? He demonstrates how redpower was contributing to the lag about 16 minutes in.

Yes, and I fail to hear where they removed the mod on their test. I've yet to hear about how they're going to switch to more rational item movement systems.

No, they're going to keep chunkloaders turned off except when the player is logged in. They're going to blame xycraft tanks in twitter (and claim to have contacted the author). This is not addressing the cause.

Get a couple of them logged in at once, so their bases are loaded, and their lag will return

 

[Malkuth]

I dont know about you guys.. But in that video he was still lagging like crazy once he got to the town.

I have no doubt still that getting rid of the tanks, helped though.. Its like having a 10HP engine trying to push 500 pounds..... You take 100 pounds off it goes faster.

Think everyones correct in this thread.. There lag is caused by too much stuff. And its going to happen again once they start replacing those tanks with other things.

3 chickens in the water though... Really?

 

[zbeeblebrox]

You claimed they ignored Redpower as a cause for lag. I'm simply showing that you are wrong. No need to get defensive about it.

 

[DoctorOr]

You claimed they ignored Redpower as a cause for lag. I'm simply showing that you are wrong. No need to get defensive about it.

They did ignore it. They've looked at large constructions that coincidentally are made of Redpower and said "this creates lag!"... which is a "durrrrr" kinda statement. They've kept all the smaller constructions, and will be just as laggy if they're actually loaded.

It's akin to saying "that large mass in your lung is causing you problems and cutting it out sure helps." "Cancer is a problem? Nahhh..."

 

[Neirin]

Generikb even mentions he doesn't really think the problem was with xycraft tanks, but it also sounds like the official line from the Mindcrackers is going to be that xycraft is (at least partially) at fault. At least, DocM and Etho both mentioned xy tanks as lag producers in their most recent videos. Seems to me like Guude doesn't want to admit he was wrong now that so many people confronted him on it. There are plenty of lag-causing problems on the Mindcrack server (several of which got fixed), it just seems sad that Guude decided to pick on xycraft.