Would you play a pack that has greg tech in it?

[poxun]

The GT Ore distribution just wouldn't work on the server I play on regularly without them making several rule changes. The current rules (which have stood since early vanilla with rules 2 and 3 being added when we started using modded) are..

0) Don't mine/dig/build/use machines near someone else's claim without explicit permission
1) Only mine within 100m of a chunk you have claimed or
2) Mine anywhere in the (random- ie no pages) mystcraft mining age as long as you don't disturb someone else's operations.
3) (surface) Quarries/frame miners etc only allowed in the mining age.

Along with a limited world size for both the chances are that at least one ore will be made unavailable due to claims etc and as noted before there is a chance that it could turn out that one or more ores just don't even exist in the world.

 

[asb3pe]

The GT Ore distribution just wouldn't work on the server I play on regularly without them making several rule changes. The current rules (which have stood since early vanilla with rules 2 and 3 being added when we started using modded) are..

0) Don't mine/dig/build/use machines near someone else's claim without explicit permission
1) Only mine within 100m of a chunk you have claimed or
2) Mine anywhere in the (random- ie no pages) mystcraft mining age as long as you don't disturb someone else's operations.
3) (surface) Quarries/frame miners etc only allowed in the mining age.

Along with a limited world size for both the chances are that at least one ore will be made unavailable due to claims etc and as noted before there is a chance that it could turn out that one or more ores just don't even exist in the world.

These are all excellent points. Quite honestly, SMP and SSP aren't even close to being the same game. Mind you, I'm talking about any random public SMP server - where you end up with a border around the world (finite, not infinite) and a list of "banned items" so long that it might just be easier to list the items that AREN'T banned instead... most public servers have to implement such things as borders and banned-item-lists, which is why I don't play on public servers anymore. Of course, I'm sure there are many private SMP servers which don't need to do these things that change the game so much.

I guess I should clarify my position - I would play a GT modpack in SSP, and I would play it in a private SMP world with good friends. But I don't think I'd ever be crazy enough to try playing a GT modpack on a public, random SMP server, because with borders and banned lists and the ore distribution... yeah, it seems like a recipe for disaster. And it doesn't seem like it would be fun.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Depends on the server and the community playing it
- if its a cooperative server where everyone genuinely looks out of each other then Greg's ore distribution would actually promote a lot of enterprising, trade and teamwork.
- looking at a factions/raid server then you have new resources to fight for and control; power comes from the ore nodes your team controls- as well as opening new possibilities for attack and defence given you have multiple targets to attack/defend. Particularly the more powerful a faction becomes, the more spread out they are. If you have a monopoly on an ore type then you have a lot of power, and you are a very big target.

For a general server where everyone goes and does their own little thing then it probably won't work out as well, especially with borders putting an artificial cap on things. (though myst ages may sort it out).

 

[karl2002]

Depends on the server and the community playing it
- if its a cooperative server where everyone genuinely looks out of each other then Greg's ore distribution would actually promote a lot of enterprising, trade and teamwork.
- looking at a factions/raid server then you have new resources to fight for and control; power comes from the ore nodes your team controls- as well as opening new possibilities for attack and defence given you have multiple targets to attack/defend. Particularly the more powerful a faction becomes, the more spread out they are. If you have a monopoly on an ore type then you have a lot of power, and you are a very big target.

For a general server where everyone goes and does their own little thing then it probably won't work out as well, especially with borders putting an artificial cap on things. (though myst ages may sort it out).

Yeah something we have done in the past on my server aurora. But the problem is always going to be trying to get people to work together like that and yeah it has worked in the past on Aurora as we had a citys and towns thing going on so people in fact seemed to help each other out but i wasnt agaisnt anyone wanting to do it solo either.

World borders were active on my server but only during the first few weeks of the server so that we didn't have too many people going out like 10k never to be seen again. I am a firm believer in banning anything destructive in the overworld such as quarrys as we like to keep our overworld looking tidy and nice^^

I do have plans for a new server for the new FTB res pack once its released but its still under a month away so i am only currently in the planning stages of bringing Aurora back up.

 

[RedBoss]

GT's rewards are not worth the effort for me. I despise deeply nested crafting recipes. I'm also a builder first and I use mods to gather building materials in fast and interesting ways. I begrudgingly automate things because the process isn't much fun to me.

Basically I'm not GT's target market and I will never play the mod ever again. I avoid IC2 for similar reasons.

 

[epidemia78]

The crafting recipes are just annoying and tedious. Even in the non-GT worlds I always play in where everything is too easy, sometimes i just dont want to craft stuff. The chest armor from Simply Jetpacks I made recently was complicated enough, thanks.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Non stacking items get annoying. Especially when they're consumed in the recipe/single crafting use.

(looking at certain MFR recipes which require multiple vanilla tools per craft)​

 

[tedyhere]

Alright, have it your way. Instead of some engaging discussion on game design, back to a dead-end discussion and 4 more pages of the same "Yeah, new GT is great. I'll play it"

There's already a thread about Balance and game design. Go there if you want to discuss that.

 

[midi_sec]

There's already a thread about Balance and game design. Go there if you want to discuss that.

and...there has been thousands about gregtech. new and old.

the discussion was relevant to the topic when it started, and it continued from there. for the sake of discussion, this was the right place at the time bruh. apologies if you wanted to rehash what many have said before about new gregtech.

 

[Pyure]

How can "balance" be objective if people use a different measure?

People's "impressions" of balance are irrelevant. Balance is mathematical. If they can't reduce it to the basics, that's their problem.

 

[Scottly318]

Balance in a game isn't about Mathematics. It's about design and intent

 

[midi_sec]

People's "impressions" of balance are irrelevant. Balance is mathematical. If they can't reduce it to the basics, that's their problem.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't see how it can be mathematical if one person's answer is 14, another's is 42, and someone else's is -15Q? You need one answer to arrive at for it to be mathematical. My analogy about the scale and the fulcrum is what I'm referring to. You can either balance the weights on either side of the scale, or you can just move the fulcrum closer to the side that hangs lower. Both methods you achieve "balance" but neither can be comparable mathematically to the other.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

You can either balance the weights on either side of the scale, or you can just move the fulcrum closer to the side that hangs lower.

That sounds very mathematical.

 

[midi_sec]

That sounds very mathematical.

As a ratio, maybe. but there is no one equation to answer the question, and that is what I am saying. and even then, balance is elusive at times. If it were purely objective, I don't think it would be so hard to achieve for so many people. I mean, just look around in our own community at individual mods/devs. Most are balanced, some are claimed to be balanced, but there's still debate among the community about that claim.

 

[Kirameki]

Basically I'm not GT's target market and I will never play the mod ever again. I avoid IC2 for similar reasons.

...This about sums it up for my friends and I. I'll follow the "If you don't have anything nice to say..." mantra and keep my thoughts on the issue to myself.

 

[Pyure]

Balance in a game isn't about Mathematics. It's about design and intent

I gather you don't develop games But I'm glad you've highlighted the difference between design and balance; I'm getting tired of repeating it.

Once you attach a value to anything in a game, it becomes something you can balance mathematically. Players may have their own subjective reference for those values, but that doesn't mean a "Sword of 1000 Damage" becomes balanced just because you value killing mobs instantaneously. It just means I made my game more appealing to you (you weirdo.)

 

[Scottly318]

correct. I don't develop game. I do however understand that the physical representation of a game is the code which is highly mathematical. But that code in and of itself doesn't produce balance. Your personal definition of balance does. Which is why you designed the math in the code to be that way. Objectivity in code I get. But that doesn't make balance any less subjective. Because it's a personal definition that sets the balance.

 

[Chrissy]

It would be fine if i actually lived in the minecraft universe and had my whole life to go mining for crap, But if you only have an hour or so to play vidya' games every day? Good luck getting anywhere especially with some of GT's insane nerfs. The slow progression is one thing but it does just nerf the hell out of everything, Disable some things that are usually fine, ETC.

 

[Scottly318]

So if I make a sword in one of my mods with 1 billion damage, it's not unbalanced as long as one person think it's balanced?

If you find it as such yea. Me, personally? I wouldn't. As @midi_sec said. If balance wasn't a subjective thing why do forums for many games, not just minecraft, have countless threads regarding balance? If it were purely objective this subject wouldn't be discussed at all. No matter the amount of math one puts into the code. Someone will find a way to dispute the "balance" of anyone item that math designs.

 

[Pyure]

correct. I don't develop game. I do however understand that the physical representation of a game is the code which is highly mathematical. But that code in and of itself doesn't produce balance. Your personal definition of balance does. Which is why you designed the math in the code to be that way. Objectivity in code I get. But that doesn't make balance any less subjective. Because it's a personal definition that sets the balance.

Sorry you feel that way

Ultimately I've seen a number of folks demonstrate that they have no interest in understanding the difference between the words "balance" and "design." I am, however, very happy that minecraft suits everyone's tastes, so who cares.