[WIP?] Redstone Fluctuation

[McJty]

I personally like the idea of making RF a bit more challenging. Additionally as is the case with all mods you can choose to play with this.

It is a bit similar to how I like to play with Hunger Overhaul and Spice of Life to make my survival worlds a bit more challenging. These are mods that change mechanics. This RF mechanic changing mod would be similar.

However, I think it will be complicated to make this work well given the amount of different mods that consume and produce RF. I think it will be a challenge.

 

[Skyqula]

Did we not read anything I wrote? This is not a thread where we debate the existence of the mod, or the pros and cons of RF. This is a thread for the mod itself. This is not the place to be doing this. Please, make a thread and debate about RF (because that ended well) or settle this in a private convo. This is not (at all) where this belongs.

You realise I am bring arguments to improve the concept of this mod right? I am suggesting it be a standalone so that it can co-exist in big packs.

I would not alter existing mods functionality. Instead, I suggest adding your own versions of them and suggest a config options to make piping/tesseract functionally optional for TE/EnderIO/BC/AE/MFR/etc. Its why TE has moved there pipes to a seperate mod so that you can use the lossy BC pipes instead (wich will also become optional trough configs).

Therefor making your own versions would be alot better. As you could enforce limits and have proper taxing values. You would likely have to add filters to tax certain amounts/fluids more then others or to outright prevent certain items/fluids from being moved (read: all tanks/energy cells).

I think your missing what you are going for here. Your problem with TE is that its a completely different playstyle then you want. You should make your own mods with gameplay rules that fit your playstyle. Wich is exactly what you are trying to do. However, I think the mistake you are making is that you want to change existing mods. That sounds very familiar to what gregtech does and as we all know, isnt that well recieved. Your problem is not with the RF API. RF is a low lag API that allows easy cross mod interactions. You can make another API ontop of it to fit your playstyle. Use that one in your mod, even if all the mod does is showcase what the API does. Why? So you can make it public and suggest its use for other mods.

The main reason I am pointing this out is actually rather simple. Kitchen sink packs simply exist. And for servers are a way to bring people of different play styles together. If instead of creating a new mod, you create a mod that enforces complex difficulty that adds very little depth, and the depth it does add is generally going to cause frustration you get a problem. The problem becomes significantly bigger when you do it for mainstream mods like TE/EnderIO. This leads to a situation where its either ignored or it causes the pack to be ignored. While a seperate mod can co-exist without problems.

The main point I am trying to get across here is: instead of trying to change someones favorite to yours, make your own. This is relevant to this topic because its exactly what to OP is suggesting.

As you can see, thats what ive been shooting for the entire time. And its defenitly relevant to this threat. As I actually like it to succed without stepping onto other mods or creating unneeded controversy. However, in the act everyone seems to overlook that option and think it has to be a "either install it or dont" kind of mod. This doesnt need to be the case! There can be a 3rd option that creates more viability and prevents the entire problem of it in the first place. However, I seem to be going over everyones head here... I cant explain it anny better, so ill leave it at this.

 

[ThomazM]

Eh, sorry to interrupt you folks - this whole discussion zone place isn't my natural habitat, if you know what I'm sayin'... So I'm kind of lost. I was just passing by when I couldn't help to eavesdrop some of you guys' little discussion. But well, I ain't the discussing type myself, so I though it would be nice to just ask for directions. But hell, since I'm already here, I've been dying to ask:

Why can we just all accept that there different people with out there with different opinions? You know, someone creates a thing you like, that's wonderful, if someone creates a thing you don't like as much, well, there are plenty of other folks out there creating plenty of other stuff that you might like! From what I understand, we have a full spectrum of choices here, hell, this community in particular is one of the prime examples of this in the entirety of the gaming community! We have mods for all kinds of players! The ones who enjoy a good, though-provoking experience, and for the ones who just like a relaxing, more chilling let's play - and there's nothing wrong with that! So, why argue which one is the "best", if that concept even exists at all, when you can just chill out, and enjoy what you like?
​

*sigh* Well, I'll be on my way now, I think I see the way to my house right in after those trees over there! Thanks for the help anyway, folks. Hope to see y'all some other day.

*leaves quietly, whistling*

EDIT: *quickly comes back making a cartoony sound* Oh, I almost forgot to mention! I'm all up for a good healthy, polite argument! Just don't throw opinion out there like they're facts, and y'all should be fine. *smiles and leaves, still whistling*

 

[Strikingwolf]

You realise I am bring arguments to improve the concept of this mod right? I am suggesting it be a standalone so that it can co-exist in big packs.



As you can see, thats what ive been shooting for the entire time. And its defenitly relevant to this threat. As I actually like it to succed without stepping onto other mods or creating unneeded controversy. However, in the act everyone seems to overlook that option and think it has to be a "either install it or dont" kind of mod. This doesnt need to be the case! There can be a 3rd option that creates more viability and prevents the entire problem of it in the first place. However, I seem to be going over everyone head here... I cant explain it anny better, so ill leave it at this.

There is one huge problem with this. It will not change how people see the RF API as a tool and not something that demands you use the lowest common denominator. There are three options for the mod dev each with their problems

1. Make it a pure RF API mod - this allows for cross-compatibility and also allows for the idea of the API being a tool rather than a constraint, but may cause drama
2. Make an API on top of the RF API - Cross-compatability and not as much drama, but implies that an API must be made if you are going to use RF as a tool
3. Standalone mod - Does not show that the RF API is a tool and has no cross-compatibility, but doesn't cause any drama

 

[Inaeo]

I've no experience modding, but if I understand your wants @Zandorum, I would think your best bet would be two mods rather than one.

First, a mod that affects only the RF API. This would alter the conduit loss, storage loss, overcharge explosions, and that sort of content. Having this as a separate mod would allow mod pack makers to use these options with or without the added machines and content from your second mod. As a player, I can't stress enough our absolute love of configs - the more flexible the configs the more accepted mods seem to be these days.

Your second mod would be the actual content side side of things, and could be dependent upon your API to function (or not, but the API would likely add balance to it). This allows you to add your own tech tree, and upgradable/inventive solutions to the challenges the API provides.

On the whole, I love the plug and play/set and forget nature of TE/EnderIO. That said, I wouldn't mind playing a pack with a bit more challenge and focus than the Monster server my friends and I have running, without having to deal with the tedium I see in GT (my opinion, to each their own).

 

[jordsta95]

Make an API on top of the RF API - Cross-compatability and not as much drama, but implies that an API must be made if you are going to use RF as a tool

I see an issue with this... I'm just going to remind you of how RF was an API based on MJ. If you were to make a "RF2.0" you will make something insanely known, but for the wrong reasons (a lot of people didn't like RF being something new, but worked with MJ, I dunno why).
But then I guess if this was to be done then there'd be the issue of how does it work?
Does it just work alongside the RF system, but if the RF energy flows through a conduit using RF2.0 would it then, and ONLY then get the loss values (for example. you have energy cell with 10k RF -> RF2.0 conduit -> energy cell (now 9.5k RF) -> RF conduit -> energy cell... will it be 9.5k, or should it be 9k because RF2.0 energy was used/converted at some point)


GOING OFF TOPIC TO MAKE A POINT!
Energy systems are a PITA. This is my main reason as to why we SHOULD have a "universal" energy system. I am not saying "Oh yeah, just have <system> and nothing else" but there should be a way for ANY energy system to tack on to it, whether it be like the stuff from RoC that turns torque into RF, or whatever. But alongside it there would have to be a configurable option for stuff like energy loss, and conversion costs.
I know a lot of people say "oh we shouldn't have a universal system for energy because it limits modders" and yes. That is right we shouldn't. But there should be something that they can use as an interaction point for other mods. If a modder doesn't realize their mod is probably going to be used alonside at least one other mod, whether it be NEI or another power mod, then they are pretty stupid (anyone who has played modded MC for a while doesn't play with just 1 mod) so they should realize that there may be people who may want to use the machines in their mod to power another mods' machines...
Think of it like money...
In England we use the British Pound... in Egypt they use the Egyptian Pound... in America the American Dollar... etc. etc.
They are all the power systems out there (steam, RF, EU, etc.) now they can all work fine in their own environment. But if I was to go to America, I can't use my money (power system)... And that is where a universal system would be much better... let's say BitCoins are universal money. I can just convert my GBP into BitCoins, and travel the world, doing as I will and pay for everything in them... instead of having to convert a bit into USD, a bit into AUD, a bit into CAD, etc. etc.
Maybe have it as a universal power system which isn't modable, per sue (you can't make a mod out of the power system due to some sort of copyright, maybe, but the power system has a block with a blank for the incoming power system -the modders power system- and outgoing power being the universal power, and another which does the opposite. And modders can just add that to their mod, whether it be both blocks or just one)

 

[Strikingwolf]

I see an issue with this... I'm just going to remind you of how RF was an API based on MJ. If you were to make a "RF2.0" you will make something insanely known, but for the wrong reasons (a lot of people didn't like RF being something new, but worked with MJ, I dunno why).
But then I guess if this was to be done then there'd be the issue of how does it work?
Does it just work alongside the RF system, but if the RF energy flows through a conduit using RF2.0 would it then, and ONLY then get the loss values (for example. you have energy cell with 10k RF -> RF2.0 conduit -> energy cell (now 9.5k RF) -> RF conduit -> energy cell... will it be 9.5k, or should it be 9k because RF2.0 energy was used/converted at some point)


GOING OFF TOPIC TO MAKE A POINT!
Energy systems are a PITA. This is my main reason as to why we SHOULD have a "universal" energy system. I am not saying "Oh yeah, just have <system> and nothing else" but there should be a way for ANY energy system to tack on to it, whether it be like the stuff from RoC that turns torque into RF, or whatever. But alongside it there would have to be a configurable option for stuff like energy loss, and conversion costs.
I know a lot of people say "oh we shouldn't have a universal system for energy because it limits modders" and yes. That is right we shouldn't. But there should be something that they can use as an interaction point for other mods. If a modder doesn't realize their mod is probably going to be used alonside at least one other mod, whether it be NEI or another power mod, then they are pretty stupid (anyone who has played modded MC for a while doesn't play with just 1 mod) so they should realize that there may be people who may want to use the machines in their mod to power another mods' machines...
Think of it like money...
In England we use the British Pound... in Egypt they use the Egyptian Pound... in America the American Dollar... etc. etc.
They are all the power systems out there (steam, RF, EU, etc.) now they can all work fine in their own environment. But if I was to go to America, I can't use my money (power system)... And that is where a universal system would be much better... let's say BitCoins are universal money. I can just convert my GBP into BitCoins, and travel the world, doing as I will and pay for everything in them... instead of having to convert a bit into USD, a bit into AUD, a bit into CAD, etc. etc.
Maybe have it as a universal power system which isn't modable, per sue (you can't make a mod out of the power system due to some sort of copyright, maybe, but the power system has a block with a blank for the incoming power system -the modders power system- and outgoing power being the universal power, and another which does the opposite. And modders can just add that to their mod, whether it be both blocks or just one)

I dunno how it would be implemented that is for the mod author to decide

 

[Zandorum]

In Back to the Future, Doc states that the time machine is electrical but that he needs a nuclear reaction (produced by plutonium stolen from a group of Libyan terrorists) to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity needed. Ok back on topic.

Your problem with TE is that its a completely different playstyle then you want. PS Did you skip my concern for using cell/tank transfer for power or do you actually think that wont be a problem?

1. Yeah I'd agree with that.
2. No I did not I just did not notice it as I was tired.

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

That said ill bring a final argument as to why RF is a good thing and why its so succesfull. Gameplay. Good gameplay has a high depth to complexity ratio. RF offers exactly that. As such I understand that annyone feels threatened by its succes. But the solution is not the change RF. Its to create your own. The advantage of RF is that its an API and as such can be extended. Wich is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Instead of changing existing mods using RF. Create an extended API with more complex features. Then suggest its implementation into existing mods and help them implement where you can.

What @jordsta95 said.

He is not saying RF itself is bad I think, more of how it is implemented in game.He doesn't mean change RF itself, but the machines that use it. I also think that RF at this state it too easy. I can get so much power in such a little time and the machines don't really use that much of it. Plus I can get the majority of the machines right away in the first hour of game play.

I feel it's just not restrictive enough. But as Skyqula said Its pretty much just my opinion so do what you like with that knowledge.

-snip-

*hugs*

I've no experience modding, but if I understand your wants @Zandorum, I would think your best bet would be two mods rather than one.

I actually enjoy this idea... hmm. I will be changing the topic now with my new ideas. (Circa 12/5/2014 2:02PM Pacific Time Zone (UTC-08:00)).

 

[jordsta95]

Well whatever you do, could you speed it along, as I really like the idea of this mod as I just want to bung it into every mod pack ever

But seriously. I'd think maybe either do it as 2 mods, or 3 mods. Or maybe just a config thing...
So either
Redstone Fluctation - Base (just the energy loss in cells/conduits)
RF - Tesseracts
RF - Overload

OR! Just in the config:

B: enable Tesseract changes = true
B: enable Overloading = true
B: enable power loss = true

 

[SkeletonPunk]

In Back to the Future, Doc states that the time machine is electrical but that he needs a nuclear reaction (produced by plutonium stolen from a group of Libyan terrorists) to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity needed. Ok back on topic.


1. Yeah I'd agree with that.
2. No I did not I just did not notice it as I was tired.


What @jordsta95 said.


I feel it's just not restrictive enough. But as Skyqula said Its pretty much just my opinion so do what you like with that knowledge.


*hugs*


I actually enjoy this idea... hmm. I will be changing the topic now with my new ideas. (Circa 12/5/2014 2:02PM Pacific Time Zone (UTC-08:00)).

I know, I was trying to explain what @Padfoote was trying to say because it seems people were getting angry at each other for reasons the other people weren't quite saying.

 

[Zandorum]

Well whatever you do, could you speed it along, as I really like the idea of this mod as I just want to bung it into every mod pack ever

But seriously. I'd think maybe either do it as 2 mods, or 3 mods. Or maybe just a config thing...
So either
Redstone Fluctation - Base (just the energy loss in cells/conduits)
RF - Tesseracts
RF - Overload

OR! Just in the config:

B: enable Tesseract changes = true
B: enable Overloading = true
B: enable power loss = true

Thy wish is my command (Check the topic).

 

[jordsta95]

Thy wish is my command (Check the topic).

Only 1 like button? WTH FTB FORUMS!?

 

[Zandorum]

I added a little bit to each thing, if everyone who would like to make any additions to it or changes as well would like to re-read it that would be great

 

[Qazplm601]

something to make RF more challenging and have more penalties(lossy cables, bom machines or whatever, just examples) is fine by me.

 

[Zandorum]

Small Update:
This may go from [WIP?] to [WIP] very soon (In the Weeks coming). Just have to get a few things done before this will happen.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

I like it. Still think my idea of splitting power and item/fluid tesseracts is a good one tho... I also REALLY like my idea of having to power both ends of the tesseracts, compact power builds will come back in a big way.

 

[Zandorum]

I like it. Still think my idea of splitting power and item/fluid tesseracts is a good one tho... I also REALLY like my idea of having to power both ends of the tesseracts, compact power builds will come back in a big way.

I look into it