[WIP?] Redstone Fluctuation

[Padfoote]

I think we can safely change this statement to: "If you want a challange, play a mod that provides a challange". This statement is defenitly not absurd. Because if you want a challange you have 2 options: Either find a mod that provides that challange. Or make a mod that provides that challange. Considering that most people wont know how to make a mod, its quite safe to state "If you want a challange, play a mod that provides a challange" and be completly reasonable.
If annything, I think going for option C and complaining that other mods/API's are OP and should be changed to fit a certain playstyle is absurd. Thankfully thats not what this threat is about!

I specifically mentioned the "go play GT" portion because it portrays that there is only one difficult mod out there, with that mod being GT. That is clearly not the case, as we have all of Reika's mods, RC can be used instead of AE to provide a greater challenge, BTW still exists, TFC, etc. The statement you provided fits far better that the one I mentioned, however.

1. There are people who want the challenge of Gregtech, but do not want other things from GT
2. That is absurd, but no one is arguing for mods to be changed; only for new mods to be made using the RF API that are more complex
3. GT does NOTHING to other recipes except for IC2 and vanilla. All the other changes are made by the other mods

This. I could not have said it better myself.

 

[PhoenixSmith]

Not until the old render system gets reimplemented by someone

Isnt 1.8 forge out right now and mods are already being dvved for it?

 

[Strikingwolf]

Isnt 1.8 forge out right now and mods are already being dvved for it?

Yes, but any complex mods (pipes or up) cannot be made because the 1.8 JSON render system does not allow for changing the texture according to conditions without having a separate JSON file for each state. This totals up to ridiculous amounts of JSON files. I think one person had exabytes of them calculated

 

[Skyqula]

@Strikingwolf @Padfoote How do you guys change "If you want a challange, play a mod that provides a challange" and some how and up thinking I am talking about a specific mod? You 2 realise I am making a very general statement here right? Dont take it out of context and dont point it into a specific mods direction.

GT does NOTHING to other recipes except for IC2 and vanilla. All the other changes are made by the other mods

What it currently does or does not do is not something I do not care about. What it did do however, is something I am well aware of. And yes, that did go beyond IC2 and it wasnt well recieved for it. The most important part to take away here, is what happend and how people responded to it. There is absolutly no need to get agressive here. I am merely making a point using history.

 

[McJty]

Yes, but any complex mods (pipes or up) cannot be made because the 1.8 JSON render system does not allow for changing the texture according to conditions without having a separate JSON file for each state. This totals up to ridiculous amounts of JSON files. I think one person had exabytes of them calculated

Actually a patch is in the running to allow more flexibility and solve this problem. Remember that Forge for 1.8 isn't finished yet. It will be allright in the end.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Actually a patch is in the running to allow more flexibility and solve this problem. Remember that Forge for 1.8 isn't finished yet. It will be allright in the end.

Yes I know that, I was pointing to it not being possible currently

 

[Padfoote]

@Strikingwolf @Padfoote How do you guys change "If you want a challange, play a mod that provides a challange" and some how and up thinking I am talking about a specific mod? You 2 realise I am making a very general statement here right? Dont take it out of context and dont point it into a specific mods direction.

You quoted part of one of my posts, specifically a section in which I told someone that telling people to play GT if they want a challenge is an absurd statement. My post was made because people in this very thread have stated several times that this hypothetical mod is pointless, because if people want these features, they should play GT. I started talking about a single specific mod to deal with a single specific statement that was made, which you then commented on. That leads the conversation to the point we are at, where both myself and @Strikingwolf are mentioning GT.

 

[Skyqula]

You quoted part of one of my posts, specifically a section in which I told someone that telling people to play GT if they want a challenge is an absurd statement. My post was made because people in this very thread have stated several times that this hypothetical mod is pointless, because if people want these features, they should play GT. I started talking about a single specific mod to deal with a single specific statement that was made, which you then commented on. That leads the conversation to the point we are at, where both myself and @Strikingwolf are mentioning GT.

Yeah I get that one. I was merely pointing out that the general censensus on hard is gregtech. Therefor changing that statement to a more general term gets the message they are actually trying to say. To then respond with more gregtech is... wierd. I also did it to point out that all the people getting upset about that general statement are hating on TE/RF for no reason and express a desire to make drastic changes to an existing mod/api instead of creating a new mod/api. Wich is why I did bring up gregtech as that specific mod tried it, atleast at one point in time, It didnt work out to well.

The main reason I am pointing this out is actually rather simple. Kitchen sink packs simply exist. And for servers are a way to bring people of different play styles together. If instead of creating a new mod, you create a mod that enforces complex difficulty that adds very little depth, and the depth it does add is generally going to cause frustration you get a problem. The problem becomes significantly bigger when you do it for mainstream mods like TE/EnderIO. This leads to a situation where its either ignored or it causes the pack to be ignored. While a seperate mod can co-exist without problems.

The main point I am trying to get across here is: instead of trying to change someones favorite to yours, make your own. This is relevant to this topic because its exactly what to OP is suggesting.

 

[buggirlexpres]

Fun fact this isn't a debate, I'm creating this and asking the community what I should do to change it. I also mentioned that I'd rather no one actually say "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS" and just ignore the topic if you feel that way. I don't want any debating, flaming or conversation about why it is or isn't overpowered. If you even read the topic you would have noticed that this is potentially a mod; Hopefully you will re-read this as I enjoy your work and would like your opinion on this (Again please try to not skim).

I realise it's not a debate, I don't want it to be one either, hence why I made that post. I personally would use this mod if I ever play with an RF-based system, as it would add some challenge to it, while still allowing you to use RF. However much I enjoy GregTech or RotaryCraft, they don't use the modern RF power standard, making them incompatible with most mods. If I wanted a lot of compatibility, and still some challenge, this would be great for me. And it's not like it's altering the power system for everyone, either. It's just for people who want it. Hence why I don't understand why there's debate. It's optional. If you like it, install it. It's not going to affect any of us otherwise.

And, once again, we all remember what happened the last time we had a debate about this stuff. Let's not have one again. This mod will not affect RF or TE unless it is installed, so if you don't like it, don't play with it. Stop yelling at it for existing. That's just absurd. There's no reason (at all) to be having a debate about this. If you want to offer constructive criticism, feel free. But don't say that RF doesn't need a change, and therefor this mod doesn't need to exist. That's like saying that Vanilla tools don't need a change, so therefor TiC should not exist, or that recipes shouldn't need a change, so therefor MineTweaker doesn't need to exist. Many people may be satisfied with Vanilla tools or default recipes, but that doesn't mean that they should yell at someone for making a mod that does not affect them at all unless they install it.

So please, let's not have a debate about this. If you want to debate about the complexity of RF, you can all do it elsewhere. Don't debate about it on the thread of a mod that will most likely not end up affecting you. That's just a good way to get a thread locked.

 

[McJty]

I realise it's not a debate, I don't want it to be one either, hence why I made that post. I personally would use this mod if I ever play with an RF-based system, as it would add some challenge to it, while still allowing you to use RF. However much I enjoy GregTech or RotaryCraft, they don't use the modern RF power standard, making them incompatible with most mods. If I wanted a lot of compatibility, and still some challenge, this would be great for me. And it's not like it's altering the power system for everyone, either. It's just for people who want it. Hence why I don't understand why there's debate. It's optional. If you like it, install it. It's not going to affect any of us otherwise.

Actually I do consider RotaryCraft to be very compatible with RF as that mod has bridges from and to RF which fit very well with the overall theme of the mod and make a lot of sense too IMHO. Especially after the big balance changes that Reika did in the 1.7.10 version (i.e. no longer possible to spam hydrokinetics and easily connect to a dynamo to gets lots of RF easily).

 

[buggirlexpres]

Actually I do consider RotaryCraft to be very compatible with RF as that mod has bridges from and to RF which fit very well with the overall theme of the mod and make a lot of sense too IMHO. Especially after the big balance changes that Reika did in the 1.7.10 version (i.e. no longer possible to spam hydrokinetics and easily connect to a dynamo to gets lots of RF easily).

Oh, whoops. I completely forgot I could convert it's power to RF

 

[Padfoote]

I also did it to point out that all the people getting upset about that general statement are hating on TE/RF for no reason and express a desire to make drastic changes to an existing mod/api instead of creating a new mod/api. Wich is why I did bring up gregtech as that specific mod tried it, atleast at one point in time, It didnt work out to well.

Here's the thing, this mod, just like every other mod, would be optional on whether or not someone uses it in their game. The hate on TE/RF for "no reason" is actually being explained quite well, such as here:

A lot of people are afraid of the direction RF and TE are going because they fear that it could be the end of hard mods. And another step into the unified power system

And here:

TE is too easy. It removes all thought process in a game that is about building. Rather than needing to build a piping system to process all of my ores, I can drop two blocks down by each other and it magically handles everything.

And here:

I'm from the BTW community. Building challenges are what I'm all about. Having something so dumbed down to the point where I don't have to think to design something like an ore processing system kills all fun for me and I view it as treating me like a child who is unable to perform simple addition, hence my hatred of TE. Mods like BTW, GT, RC, RoC, and ReC bring a challenge to MC for me, and that challenge is building a system to do a single task.

At this point I've explained my reasoning for having a strong dislike of TE and RF; this is not only beating a dead horse as @Gideonseymour has pointed out, it's wildly off-topic from the initial post. The feedback that has been provided on the mod has either been positive, or "this is pointless go use GT / some other challenging mod".

 

[PhoenixSmith]

Oh, whoops. I completely forgot I could convert it's power to RF

Not just convert it, convert thousands of RF! Or millions I forget the reactor builds...

 

[Skyqula]

At this point I've explained my reasoning for having a strong dislike of TE and RF; this is not only beating a dead horse as @Gideonseymour has pointed out, it's wildly off-topic from the initial post. The feedback that has been provided on the mod has either been positive, or "this is pointless go use GT / some other challenging mod".

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

That said ill bring a final argument as to why RF is a good thing and why its so succesfull. Gameplay. Good gameplay has a high depth to complexity ratio. RF offers exactly that. As such I understand that annyone feels threatened by its succes. But the solution is not the change RF. Its to create your own. The advantage of RF is that its an API and as such can be extended. Wich is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Instead of changing existing mods using RF. Create an extended API with more complex features. Then suggest its implementation into existing mods and help them implement where you can.

 

[jordsta95]

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

But this mod would be an "add-on" and it's one of those "if you don't like leave it" sorta mods. No one forces you to use GregTech with IC2. And the same goes with this mod and TE/EIO/etc.

 

[SkeletonPunk]

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

That said ill bring a final argument as to why RF is a good thing and why its so succesfull. Gameplay. Good gameplay has a high depth to complexity ratio. RF offers exactly that. As such I understand that annyone feels threatened by its succes. But the solution is not the change RF. Its to create your own. The advantage of RF is that its an API and as such can be extended. Wich is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Instead of changing existing mods using RF. Create an extended API with more complex features. Then suggest its implementation into existing mods and help them implement where you can.

He is not saying RF itself is bad I think, more of how it is implemented in game.He doesn't mean change RF itself, but the machines that use it. I also think that RF at this state it too easy. I can get so much power in such a little time and the machines don't really use that much of it. Plus I can get the majority of the machines right away in the first hour of game play.

 

[buggirlexpres]

Here's the thing, this mod, just like every other mod, would be optional on whether or not someone uses it in their game. The hate on TE/RF for "no reason" is actually being explained quite well, such as here:


And here:


And here:


At this point I've explained my reasoning for having a strong dislike of TE and RF; this is not only beating a dead horse as @Gideonseymour has pointed out, it's wildly off-topic from the initial post. The feedback that has been provided on the mod has either been positive, or "this is pointless go use GT / some other challenging mod".

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

That said ill bring a final argument as to why RF is a good thing and why its so succesfull. Gameplay. Good gameplay has a high depth to complexity ratio. RF offers exactly that. As such I understand that annyone feels threatened by its succes. But the solution is not the change RF. Its to create your own. The advantage of RF is that its an API and as such can be extended. Wich is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Instead of changing existing mods using RF. Create an extended API with more complex features. Then suggest its implementation into existing mods and help them implement where you can.

But this mod would be an "add-on" and it's one of those "if you don't like leave it" sorta mods. No one forces you to use GregTech with IC2. And the same goes with this mod and TE/EIO/etc.

He is not saying RF itself is bad I think, more of how it is implemented in game.He doesn't mean change RF itself, but the machines that use it. I also think that RF at this state it too easy. I can get so much power in such a little time and the machines don't really use that much of it. Plus I can get the majority of the machines right away in the first hour of game play.

Did we not read anything I wrote? This is not a thread where we debate the existence of the mod, or the pros and cons of RF. This is a thread for the mod itself. This is not the place to be doing this. Please, make a thread and debate about RF (because that ended well) or settle this in a private convo. This is not (at all) where this belongs.

 

[jordsta95]

Did we not read anything I wrote? This is not a thread where we debate the existence of the mod, or the pros and cons of RF. This is a thread for the mod itself. This is not the place to be doing this. Please, make a thread and debate about RF (because that ended well) or settle this in a private convo. This is not (at all) where this belongs.

Mine was a comment about the mod though... Just hoping to clarify Skyqula's "issue" with this mod.

 

[Padfoote]

I find it both offensive and insulting that your not even reading let alone acknowledge my conerns and/or points. Or you would clearly understand that I am actually bringing a 3rd stanpoint here, showing that a seperate mod has more succes then changing an existing one.

I am reading your points. But as I understood the OP, there are not mods being changed other than a little bit of TE. Don't like how it's being changed? Don't use it. There's no point for me to comment on it because the answer is that simple.

That said ill bring a final argument as to why RF is a good thing and why its so succesfull. Gameplay. Good gameplay has a high depth to complexity ratio. RF offers exactly that. As such I understand that annyone feels threatened by its succes. But the solution is not the change RF. Its to create your own. The advantage of RF is that its an API and as such can be extended. Wich is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Instead of changing existing mods using RF. Create an extended API with more complex features. Then suggest its implementation into existing mods and help them implement where you can.

RF, for me and many others, eliminates any gameplay due to how it is implemented. Which is exactly what this mod would change. It's a new mod that happens to change how some others work. Not a big deal. If people have that much of a problem with how the mod is designed, then don't use the mod. It's seriously that simple.

 

[SkeletonPunk]

Did we not read anything I wrote? This is not a thread where we debate the existence of the mod, or the pros and cons of RF. This is a thread for the mod itself. This is not the place to be doing this. Please, make a thread and debate about RF (because that ended well) or settle this in a private convo. This is not (at all) where this belongs.

Yes, I was actually about to do that but then I read this page. I like the mod Idea a lot. Could bring some interesting challenges to TE.