Why don't people like IC2 anymore?

[Golrith]

That's a good point Jaded. When I first started with modded minecraft (back in 1.2.5 days), I hated crafting the electric circuits. That was fiddly, and nearly every machine needs one. It made sense, and I was overjoyed when I made an automated system with BC pipes and auto crafting tables to syphon off a fraction of my materials to automatically craft them.
Now it seems that idea has been multiplied on every crafting recipe.

Limiting it to the upgrades and advanced machines would be best. If you want those bonuses, work for them, otherwise you are stuck with the basic "block".

 

[zorn]

It took me 6 hours to get to having a compresser, macerator, metal former and extractor and powering them.. with me already having all the materials I needed. Just making all the parts. And I had a full AE setup with autocrafting... I had to program way too many tiny components. I like progression tiers, I do not like making a machine to make another machine to make the machine I need to make the item I was trying to make. That type mini-game as a requirement bores me to tears. Bees are as time consuming as IC2, but they are an optional side game. For me I want the incredibly time consuming thing to be optional side games. I would be cool if the IC2 machines used the old method but the upgrades all had more steps and more time. Because the upgrades are not required for progression but the machines are. Thats where I personally draw my line. If its a required thing for normal progression make it fewer steps. Something that adds/upgrades the base mod , mini-game time.

Interesting take. I have to get exp IC2 going to see how this changed, im going by older ic2 so I shouldn't really comment. 6 hours does seem extreme. Sounds like they didnt want people to plop down all the machines in 20 minutes to create a sort of progression, but imo it would be better to just change all the machines to require 'Blocks' instead of ingots to craft them. A machine block for a compressor is not 9 ingots (Im going by 1.5 IC2 here) its made of 9 iron BLOCKS. Now a compressor costs more than a stack of iron, and you have your machine room paced out a bit so you build it over time, but you arent spending 6 hours crafting them.

Probably wouldnt work, just an idea off the top of my head. Id like it to be harder to make a bank of machines, but dont want to spend 6 hours making them either.

 

[SkyBoy96]

...change all the machines to require 'Blocks' instead of ingots to craft them. A machine block for a compressor is not 9 ingots (Im going by 1.5 IC2 here) its made of 9 iron BLOCKS. Now a compressor costs more than a stack of iron...

If they implemented this, I'd happily never make another compressor. Just no. And on the topic of the main question, I am starting to dislike IC2 because of the tedium required. I don't get a whole lot of time to play the game without staying up until unholy hours of the night, so I like to be able to get something done in the time I have.
EDIT: Reread your post, and you said the machine blocks, not the compressor. Revised statement: If they implemented that, I would happily never use IC2 again.

 

[Democretes]

I think what they are trying to do is push people to craft ahead. Set up some way to have a stack of uninsulated copper cables always on hand. Any time I run into something tedious... i try to automate it. You dont need lots of wrenches but you will need lots of batteries and circuits right? So make a couple stacks of all of them at once in a Workbench or something. Now how long does it take to craft? If it still takes 15 minutes then yes i would agree its too tedious.

That's the problem. Nobody wants to invest a stack of copper, two stacks of rubber, a stack of iron, and two stacks of rubber just so that they don't have to make the circuits later. And if they're using the machines, that will exceed 15 minutes especially if they're not using overclockers. Nobody wants to invest that massive amount of resources just so they can continuously craft stuff. It's just plain silly. It would be like making a bunch of machine frames for TE3 so you don't have to make them later. Neither the circuit or frame is used in every recipe, so why make a bunch?

It costs a lot because it is very powerful, the IC2 guys just feel an electric wrench is something you should have to invest in, something you won't just make on day 1 of a world and never think of it again.
I havent played ic2 experimental yet but i like that you said a single tool requires a lot of resources. maybe the crafting time is too high, but really you only ever have to make one or two electric wrenches in a world.

I'm going to defer to myself for this one.

Not only that, but a wrench that requires electricity and is the only item that gets your machines back 100% of the time.

You shouldn't have to invest all your items into a item that allows you to retrieve your blocks back. It's like opening a chest but some items magically disappear unless you wear a certain armor that needs to be repaired with a stack of cobblestone every time you use it. It doesn't create tiers, it's not powerful, it's needed. Without it, you're stuck with your machines exactly where they are until you make it. Every other mod I've seen makes their tool extremely easy to get because it's a required tool to play the game. They're not making it more powerful or a large investment that you really want, they're just dicking with you.

 

[Dorque]

That's the problem. Nobody wants to invest a stack of copper, two stacks of rubber, a stack of iron, and two stacks of rubber just so that they don't have to make the circuits later. And if they're using the machines, that will exceed 15 minutes especially if they're not using overclockers. Nobody wants to invest that massive amount of resources just so they can continuously craft stuff. It's just plain silly. It would be like making a bunch of machine frames for TE3 so you don't have to make them later. Neither the circuit or frame is used in every recipe, so why make a bunch?

I actually have an entire stack of full Tesseract Frames in my network, because setting up the liquid-filled stuff to autocraft is annoying :3 I'll often keep supplies like that hanging around until I have a crafting core online, especially IC2 components, because you end up needing so bloody many of them, so consistently.

But I get where you're coming from and you're perfectly right.

 

[matpower123]

Interesting take. I have to get exp IC2 going to see how this changed, im going by older ic2 so I shouldn't really comment. 6 hours does seem extreme. Sounds like they didnt want people to plop down all the machines in 20 minutes to create a sort of progression, but imo it would be better to just change all the machines to require 'Blocks' instead of ingots to craft them. A machine block for a compressor is not 9 ingots (Im going by 1.5 IC2 here) its made of 9 iron BLOCKS. Now a compressor costs more than a stack of iron, and you have your machine room paced out a bit so you build it over time, but you arent spending 6 hours crafting them.

Probably wouldnt work, just an idea off the top of my head. Id like it to be harder to make a bank of machines, but dont want to spend 6 hours making them either.

I think the biggest problem with IC2 is the tedium.
The fact of having to make more machines to make more machines is annoying and a time waster thing or dumb things like normal wrenches breaking and Electrical is better.
I have tools older than me and I don't need Electrical Thingaboo to perfectly dismantle a machine.
Even if you remove these "extra recipes that cause tedium" and replace with that your "idea" would be worse, instead of tedium, we are wasting resources that we could use in another machine or project.

 

[zorn]

I think the biggest problem with IC2 is the tedium.
The fact of having to make more machines to make more machines is annoying and a time waster thing or dumb things like normal wrenches breaking and Electrical is better.
I have tools older than me and I don't need Electrical Thingaboo to perfectly dismantle a machine.
Even if you remove these "extra recipes that cause tedium" and replace with that your "idea" would be worse, instead of tedium, we are wasting resources that we could use in another machine or project.

Well I just keep seeing people post AE systems with 50k or more iron sitting around doing nothing, for me having a way to spend it all would be more fun. To each his own though.

To the guy who talked about machine frames: once I have a quarry I make a stack of anything I craft that might be used again. Machine frames, machine blocks etc. are you sure most people don't do this? A stack of copper is a drop in the bucket once you get a quarry.

 

[Dorque]

Well I just keep seeing people post AE systems with 50k or more iron sitting around doing nothing, for me having a way to spend it all would be more fun. To each his own though.

To the guy who talked about machine frames: once I have a quarry I make a stack of anything I craft that might be used again. Machine frames, machine blocks etc. are you sure most people don't do this? A stack of copper is a drop in the bucket once you get a quarry.

Having a way to spend it is great, but it needs to be a "value-added" way to spend it. Very few people feel good about having the cost of a recipe arbitrarily increased.

 

[Mevansuto]

Ooh. Or use that lovely new rocket launcher from MFR!

Though I will admit that explosions if you mess up your reactor make sense. Never had a complaint there.

Got to try this. Like now. Gonna drop what I was doing to try it out.

 

[Mevansuto]

I think the biggest problem with IC2 is the tedium.
The fact of having to make more machines to make more machines is annoying and a time waster thing or dumb things like normal wrenches breaking and Electrical is better.
I have tools older than me and I don't need Electrical Thingaboo to perfectly dismantle a machine.
Even if you remove these "extra recipes that cause tedium" and replace with that your "idea" would be worse, instead of tedium, we are wasting resources that we could use in another machine or project.

I think the tedium is dreadful, but I personally don't feel there is any draw to IC2 anymore. Not for a while at least. There's nothing exciting to attract me in any more. Everything in IC2 has been done with less tedium in a more fun way by other mods that I enjoy using. I do however delve in on occasion if GregTech is involved as that adds things to work towards, whereas IC2 does not.

I remember in 1.2 when it was cool to have a factory using IC2 machines piping them through BC pipes. I wouldn't be seen dead doing that now.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

I thought that IC2 would kill 1.6 for me. While the mini steps of tedium have been added, it hasn't killed it for me yet. Still want flight, still want to make diamonds, still want reusable armor, and your not going to beat the IC2 Induction furnace at anything. Coal serves 0 purpose without IC2 so far. haven't gone into that upper tier of machinery yet though.

You can get better armour that covers both flight and being able to recharge it instead of replacing it from Modular Power Suits, and in the dev build T-Con as well now, as for the diamonds, even in IC2 classic that aspect was never worth it. In the time it takes to get the machines and resources necessary, and the time it takes to run those materials through the appropriate machines and crafting recipes in order to create one industrial diamond you could find a cave, head for the bottom, and found a stack of diamonds, and now it takes even more time to get all the machines an resources needed to make that one diamond, forget that noise, I'm taking my trusty steel T-Con hammer, Octavia, and strip mining a chunk at its lower levels, quicker, more fun, and less standing around staring at grey blocks processing coal, crafting the result into something else, processing it again, crafting it again, etc.

 

[Dorque]

You can get better armour that covers both flight and being able to recharge it instead of replacing it from Modular Power Suits, and in the dev build T-Con as well now, as for the diamonds, even in IC2 classic that aspect was never worth it. In the time it takes to get the machines and resources necessary, and the time it takes to run those materials through the appropriate machines and crafting recipes in order to create one industrial diamond you could find a cave, head for the bottom, and found a stack of diamonds, and now it takes even more time to get all the machines an resources needed to make that one diamond, forget that noise, I'm taking my trusty steel T-Con hammer, Octavia, and strip mining a chunk at its lower levels, quicker, more fun, and less standing around staring at grey blocks processing coal, crafting the result into something else, processing it again, crafting it again, etc.

Gotta be honest, I know people swear by it but I've never actually liked the MPS. Quantum + gravi + advanced nano tends to do everything I want it to do, the way I want it done, that at least I can't complain about.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

Gotta be honest, I know people swear by it but I've never actually liked the MPS. Quantum + gravi + advanced nano tends to do everything I want it to do, the way I want it done, that at least I can't complain about.

Fair enough, just saying if flight and armour that can be repaired/recharged are your main reasons for keeping IC2 Exp around there are several options available at this point in both tech and magical flavours to do the same things with less hassle.

 

[Dorque]

Fair enough, just saying if flight and armour that can be repaired/recharged are your main reasons for keeping IC2 Exp around there are several options available at this point in both tech and magical flavours to do the same things with less hassle.

Also fair enough. I meant it more conversationally; while I would certainly miss my quantumstuffs I wouldn't shed too many tears to lose the current iteration of IC2. I've barely even touched it in 1.6 as it is.

 

[YX33A]

IC2 died a long time ago. Until it's flipped on it's head, hogtied, and thrown into a pack of hungry wolves after being stripped naked and this is all taking place in Russia in Winter, I fear that IC2 will never really be noteworthy again.

That being said, the "Alpha Knight" that I am(as far as Minecraft goes, anyway), I remember when IC1 was first released. It was simply ground breaking. Even the Ore Doubling was in almost everyone's eyes a breath of fresh air. Now, here we are. IC1 was back in Alpha. IC2 was released roughly coinciding with the release of Minecraft Forge IIRC. It hasn't changed much since then. Crops were added, Nuclear Power changed now and then, occasionally rehashes of IC1 items came back into the fold, but it hasn't changed much since those Alpha days.

But then again, almost every mod owes favor to IC1/2 in the end. Many things were first done in a good way by IC1/2. Not everything was done well. But many mods have roots that tie it to those early days when they only "real" mods out there were IC2, BC(2?), and Redpower. After all, weren't those mods the ones that sparked Minecraft Forge? BC was for sure, and RP almost made it worth getting for RP alone, but IC2 was still very important. But this was so long ago. RP and RP2 died long before Elloram released RP2.

In the end, I only have IC2 core for one reason; UUM. With GT, I have a bit more reason. These new changes don't sit very well with me, namely the countless small bits you need to craft the occasional machine or tool.

I usually didn't even bother with IC2 and GT when I last played. But still, I loved them to bits. GT because it was a very needed bunch of items for IC2, and IC2 because so many mods used it(and UUM). Now, I may just wait until the storm passes on this issue. I am uncertain where I stand on the matter.

Well, no, I know where I stand, but that's with Magic Mods. Tech is cool and all, but I prefer Magic. Even Thaumcraft was more up my alley then IC was. All of the TC versions were to me.
And most of them have merely been Tech mods pretending to be Magic mods.(TC4? Yeah, it seems like the real deal for Magic to me)

But, I wouldn't be happy to see it vanish. I may look into RotaryCraft, but last I checked it was all kinds of weird and complicated looking. I mean, I know I(and everyone else, really) were spoiled by KingLemming and how Intuitive TE was(and it seems he has spoiled me even more so with his Redstone Flux system and his Tools that use it, rather, one of his Tools that use it), so, maybe the fact that it looked more complicated then even a basic TE/Mek processing line was didn't help.

In closing, I am no longer able to use TiC with a clear conscious. As stupid as this may sound, it was always more powerful then it needed to be, and Dartcraft, my preffered mod for the whole "pick your enchantment for this item" system got a horrible rap, occasionally even being said to be as bad as EE2(IIRC). I at least take faith in the fact that Dartcraft, which has been nerf'd hard, and truthfully, kinda needed it, it still is more balanced then TiC.(and seems it always will be since TiC tools don't break, can be given weird, somewhat conflicting powers, such as stonebound and anything that is an alternate to tool damage, making them stupidly powerful, and if armor is added to TiC, then a slew of new issues will arise on the matter of "what is the best suit of armor and why?")

 

[Dorque]

It's an interesting post, YX33A, but how did we make the jump from IC2 to TiC?

 

[Dee_Twenty]

and if armor is added to TiC, then a slew of new issues will arise on the matter of "what is the best suit of armor and why?")

It's not a matter of if at this point, the armour is already in the current dev build of T-Con, and it's slated for a full release by the time a stable 1.7.2 compatible version of T-Con is released, according to mDiyo.

 

[Golrith]

It's an interesting post, YX33A, but how did we make the jump from IC2 to TiC?

Maybe he got bored thinking about IC2, and starting thinking about TiC?

 

[Dorque]

Maybe he got bored thinking about IC2, and starting thinking about TiC?

Perhaps. It is pretty tedious, you have to think about so many little fiddly parts before you get to the main point

 

[AlanEsh]

I build an MFR tree farm and set up a large TE processing system then add an elaborate AE Network with a 5 page MAC, then and only then do I think about adding some IC2, and it's usually just a compressor