Why Does Everyone Care So Much About Expense

[SatanicSanta]

I don't quite understand your question. It's like asking "Why do people refuse to buy jewelry because it's expensive?" or "Why do people refuse to buy cars because they're expensive?" Or "Why do people refuse to buy beachfront property because it's expensive?"
The answer is already there in the question: because it's expensive! And people avoid expensive stuff because they'd rather use their money (or resources, or time) on something they feel is more worthwhile (or more fun, or whatever).

The difference is you don't actually lose/gain anything. It is Minecraft. A video game.[DOUBLEPOST=1371622936][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's what we've been discussing, but you've been too busy missing the point.

Oh really? I sentence such as "Gregtech blows." is totally relevant to my OP.[DOUBLEPOST=1371623094][/DOUBLEPOST]

iridium actually had an EMC price, but not an actually value, via uu-matter to glowstone conversion

I'm talking about the Iridium Ore block itself, not the ore crafted with UUm.

 

[Mero]

The difference is you don't actually lose/gain anything. It is Minecraft. A video game.

But you do lose something. You lose time. If you start on a project and instead of being able to finish it today, you instead have to take 4 or 5 days to finish it because you have to jump through a dozen hoops due to all of the extra processes that GT throws in, that just isn't fun to a lot of people.

If some part of a game isn't fun for someone, what is the point in playing it? I know I won't. As soon as a game starts to become tedious, be it farming for tons of xp to level or farming for tons of gold to get that new set of eq you need to get to the next tier or even spending hour upon hour doing monotonous resource gathering, I will quit playing.

I personally play games to have fun and relax. If my relax time isn't run then it isn't relaxing and thus a waste of time that I lose and will never get back.

 

[EternalDensity]

The difference is you don't actually lose/gain anything. It is Minecraft. A video game.

Yes. You expend time and gain enjoyment. If something will take too much time (or is frustrating to do) for the amount of enjoyment offered by doing it, then people won't do it. It's not worth their time.
But once resources can be gained automatically, and refining them is automatic and when crafting can be automated, the time factor goes down these costs go away.

I guess the reason I haven't done anything with Thaumcraft in months is because I never really enjoyed what reserach I've done and it seems like a lot of work and risk (flux effects!) when I don't really have need of the stuff I can get with it (I have enough other cool stuff to play with which doesn't create wisps or whatever in the process) so I just don't bother, and do something else with my time instead.
[edit]
Yeah, what Mero said.
Though I'd like to point out that automation makes those hoops easier to jump through, so I actually enjoyed upgrading our industrial blast furnace to be able to smelt tungsten

 

[KirinDave]

Yes. You expend time and gain enjoyment. If something will take too much time (or is frustrating to do) for the amount of enjoyment offered by doing it, then people won't do it. It's not worth their time.
But once resources can be gained automatically, and refining them is automatic and when crafting can be automated, the time factor goes down these costs go away.

I guess the reason I haven't done anything with Thaumcraft in months is because I never really enjoyed what reserach I've done and it seems like a lot of work and risk (flux effects!) when I don't really have need of the stuff I can get with it (I have enough other cool stuff to play with which doesn't create wisps or whatever in the process) so I just don't bother, and do something else with my time instead.
[edit]
Yeah, what Mero said.
Though I'd like to point out that automation makes those hoops easier to jump through, so I actually enjoyed upgrading our industrial blast furnace to be able to smelt tungsten

Well, we do have new stuff because of Thaumic Tinkerer. So that's drawing me onward in Thaumcraft research. But I think even Azinor agrees (at least according to MachineMuse) the research system is "no fun" after the first few playthroughs. Which is a shame, because Thaumcraft is one of those spectacular mods that is marred by a mechanics defect).

 

[Bagman817]

Frankly, I'm more concerned about why the OP would play on a server where the server owner is whining about GT, but can't be bothered to change the configs and cheats the stuff in. Pet peeve of mine: people cry about GT being 'expensive' (and I'll acknowledge KirinDave's gripe about time being precious, I agree), but just forget about the fact that GT has one of the most elaborate configs of any mod. Changing the configs to 'time-efficient' mode (that sounds less like wussing out than 'easy') makes it not nearly as grindy, and still lets you play with his cool toys =)

 

[nardavin]

Personally, I only care with super amazingly expensive items, like a gravichest plate. Even then, by the time I want one, I have the materials. Its just a huge pain with the overly-complicated recipes.

 

[quantumllama]

There are no rules beyond the ones the server owners set. If you don't like the rules and configs of the server, try to find one you like or start your own. If you are playing solo, nobody should care what you do with your own game.

Don't play on a server you don't enjoy just because your friends are playing it. If it was really fun playing with them, you'd have a good time despite the annoyances.

Also telling people how they should have fun isn't just a Minecraft thing, happens everywhere, even Dwarf Fortress forums.

Personally, I only care with super amazingly expensive items, like a gravichest plate. Even then, by the time I want one, I have the materials. Its just a huge pain with the overly-complicated recipes.

That's why I really like AE. Saves so much time on Gregtech.

 

[SatanicSanta]

I played on the server for two reasons. 1. My friend wasn't properly whitelisted on a different, better server. 2. We are friends with the server owner and felt like playing FTB. We had no idea the admin was so anti-greg.

 

[quantumllama]

Oh, I didn't mean you in particular. Those are just my personal rules that I think can generally be applied to many games.

 

[Hydra]

The difference is you don't actually lose/gain anything. It is Minecraft. A video game.[DOUBLEPOST=1371622936][/DOUBLEPOST]

Funny how you're ignoring the "TIME" part. In your LIFE the only thing that is really REALLY limited is time.

 

[Enigmius1]

Oh really? I sentence such as "Gregtech blows." is totally relevant to my OP.

One of the worst ways to approach a discussion on a contentious issue is to ignore 99% of what someone says and instead complain about the 1% you arbitrarily decided to focus on. I wrote 3 paragraphs in my first response. The second paragraph was even a rebuttal to your response...before you had even written it. You know how I was able to do that? Not my first time to the rodeo, that's how. Which means if you want to salvage this situation you're going to need to up your game and at least try. Otherwise this will change from "Why does everyone care so much about expense," to "why do people create discussion threads and then argue like ninnies?" You chose to present two discussions focused on the cost of machines on account of GregTech's influence. If you didn't want people to respond in the context of GregTech, you should have given more thought to how you brought up the subject in the first place.

 

[DoctorOr]

The difference is you don't actually lose/gain anything. It is Minecraft. A video game.

If I shall wax philosophical, you don't actually lose anything in life either.

 

[SatanicSanta]

If I shall wax philosophical, you don't actually lose anything in life either.

I never said you did [DOUBLEPOST=1371636262][/DOUBLEPOST]

One of the worst ways to approach a discussion on a contentious issue is to ignore 99% of what someone says and instead complain about the 1% you arbitrarily decided to focus on. I wrote 3 paragraphs in my first response. The second paragraph was even a rebuttal to your response...before you had even written it. You know how I was able to do that? Not my first time to the rodeo, that's how. Which means if you want to salvage this situation you're going to need to up your game and at least try. Otherwise this will change from "Why does everyone care so much about expense," to "why do people create discussion threads and then argue like ninnies?" You chose to present two discussions focused on the cost of machines on account of GregTech's influence. If you didn't want people to respond in the context of GregTech, you should have given more thought to how you brought up the subject in the first place.

I just didn't want this to turn into a GregTech flame war, but obviously you did. We have different view points on this thread. Regardless of if GregTech exists in a pack, there can still be expensive things (diamond armor in vanilla). I chose to use an example that had GregTech involved. GregTech is the most common thing for people to complain about expense-wise, and I had experience in people doing just that, so I used in as an example. I give you 1000 pardons.

/endargument

 

[SatanicSanta]

Funny how you're ignoring the "TIME" part. In your LIFE the only thing that is really REALLY limited is time.

I didn't really talk about it because it is obvious. I am not talking (that much) about life, more about the resources in the game.

 

[Zarkov]

Personally I don't mind things being "expensive", as long as it makes sense. 11 diamonds for a quarry seems reasonable to me, due to the extreme value you get out of that cost. Like other have been saying, the items themselves are not worth anything, it's the time needed to acquire them. And since the quarry helps with that entire situation, 11 diamonds makes sense.

However, I don't think there's a correlation between cost and fun. I don't have more fun setting up a maintenance free tree farm just because I had to use ~50 diamonds for it. It's not more fun building an AE infrastructure just because there is a requirement for nether quartz.

I think to some extent it boils down to whether or not people play Minecraft for bragging rights. I don't, which I guess is why I don't see any value in, or need for, expensive recipes just to let a mod be perceived as "balanced".

 

[iconmaster]

H: IF YOU CARE THAT I CHEAT, PLAY ON A DIFFERENT FUCKING SERVER. I SHOULD JUST UNFRIEND YOU ALL BECAUSE THIS SEEMS TO BE CAUSING ISSUES!

Well, you've heard it from here. GregTech ruins relationships!

 

[RedBoss]

Santa, you obviously don't list time in the same context as a lot of people in terms of it being a limited resource. I think that's why you continue to ignore the very elegant replies which directly address the OP. There's no need for me to rehash what has already been stated. Time is not an issue for you.

You also seem to have a linear perspective on a non-linear game. This too has been addressed but it doesn't compute for you so you don't respond. You just aren't in a place to understand.

 

[Neko303]

After a while, I had to build 12 quarries and wreck the landscape(in a mystcraft world of course). In the end, it wasn't the cost that bugged me. I just never resorted to using quarries like that before. Everything felt "small scale" before when I was simply managing a stack or two of iron. My friend stole my fortune III, repair II, efficiency IV, pick of the core and I didn't even notice. That was once my favorite item and high fives were given all around when I enchanted it. Something about trying to "beat" gregtech makes me feel a wee bit empty inside.

 

[Hydra]

I didn't really talk about it because it is obvious. I am not talking (that much) about life, more about the resources in the game.

You keep either missing or ignoring the point. Time is the only thing that is limited. People are only 'complaining' about time. Period. Sheez.

 

[Chocorate]

I did not read the other pages, but I'd like to explain my views. This is not the divine word of god. So please take a moment and understand that I'm not saying I'm correct. This is my view. You have yours. I respect your opinion. No need to white-knight. Love you~

I care about how expensive things are. When I see a cool new mod (like MFR and TiCO, even though those two are the complete opposite of what I'm talking about), I really want to try out all the new features. I want to play with those mods in my game. I want to see how they can help me design a cool contraption I could otherwise not make. I want to have fun. Now, if the mod author decides, "Well this should be expensive because it's so cool and people want to use it. This should be expensive because it's powerful. This item should require mob drops because well, mob drops. And everyone surely plays on easy or higher, and mob AI doesn't suck in this game" I find myself enjoying it less.

Let's say the author thinks that an item is very powerful and does something great, like making a tree farm. And because it's powerful, they need to nerf it. To me, this is okay. I'd do this if I were an author. It makes sense. You have to implement some sort of value in your mod. But where this starts going wrong, in my opinion, is how they nerf it. And they almost always choose to make it harder to obtain, by say, making it require 47 diamonds around a gold block. Immediately, I don't want to use whatever item it is. It's just not worth it to me. What they should (opinion) have instead done, is nerf the item. They should have lowered the efficiency. Or the speed. Or raised the cost to operating the item. These are all great options, because I can still use the feature. Even better? They could have made varying levels of the item that are progressively better and better, with the same core functionality. I know I complain about Sengir a lot, but he did a GREAT job when he implemented bee houses. Now I can breed bees at the start of the game, without jumping through all these hoops. Yeah, the bee house is not as good as the other 2 beekeeping methods, but I can still play with the core feature. And I can decide to upgrade the item, depending on whether or not I need a certain function. This is a great way of nerfing things or adding value. It lets people use the feature, and the original item still has a point. But a lot of modders simply don't do this. They choose to make the item harder to obtain, while keeping the same functionality.

Greg is exempt from this. My only problem is that Gregtech is hardmode by default in the Ultimate Pack (which Lambert2191 has pointed out, why add a recipe-changing mod to a pack designed to showcase all the mods?). His mod is supposed to make everything difficult. This is for servers. It has its uses and it has a clear, solid purpose. But when some modders pull a Microsoft and force a new, bad feature with an iron fist, it's just stupid. They say, "Oh, solar was OP so now you're never going to use them again. Make them less OP? NAH, you're just not gonna get to make them in the first place. Those cool treefarms that people liked using? Yeah, you're gonna need this really expensive item in order to do any of that. Make the farms less efficient? No, that would require a bit more work. You liked my old farms? I'm taking those out, gotta use my super cool new ones that have a non-rectangular setup and are really just too much work. Don't like it? Well you're gonna have to".

A lot of people seem to get some sort of smug satisfaction when they oh-so-brilliantly say, "Well you should shut up and stop being a brat, the modders aren't making their mod for you". Yeah, we get it. You're not a genius. We've heard it. Author's not making the mod for me or anyone else? They're just making it for themselves and releasing it? That's alright. But people are going to dislike it. People aren't going to want it in a modpack. The simple fact is that most people are going to use the mod that they like. SteveCarts2's new galga-albania-doria-kaborian drill requiring your first born child as a sacrifice to make? Yeah, people don't like that. Sengir's farms? They're cool and all. I like the idea. But we're going to use other options. We've seen it time and time again. Advanced Solars? Why use those when we can power our system for cheaper and do something creative with TE. Stevecarts? We have MFR. Wouldn't it just be great if modders stopped doing this when people like a certain feature? What if Stevecarts was just less efficient? What if macerators were just not as good and could still be made with flint? I think we all could learn something from Sengir and PC and a couple other modders. The best way to make everyone happy is letting them use an awesome feature without stressing about the cost. Think it's too good? You don't have to nerf it into oblivion.

And yeah, I get that Sengir and ASP and Greg are not waiting on my every whim trying to appease me. No, you're not a genius for telling me that. Though if you'd like to revert to that state and try to get me to realize something obvious, go right ahead.

TL;DR: we dun liek it wen we cant use our faverit stuff anymoe.